[CT] Carl Clover Tactical Discussion/Questions/Help

[Kyle]

Need more pics. =/

[Silmerion]

So, I guess Ragna can escape Carl's ridiculous throw trap, but it costs him 50% Heat to do so safely.

Thoughts?

[Escathon]

Yes, that's exactly him! Thanks for the pic.

He looks like Carl on this pic:

(sorry for the bad quality. YouTube screenshot only ^^

[Shiri]

So, I guess Ragna can escape Carl's ridiculous throw trap, but it costs him 50% Heat to do so safely.

Thoughts?

How is he doing that and why does it cost tension? It just looked like he was doing inferno divider to me...I can guess the shoryuken properties get it out of the clap bubble's way, but why would that cost tension?

[gwc123]

Probably u do his SRK and if the carl gets hit by it ure free if he blocks u gotta use tension to not be sent back into loop.

[Most Unknown]

It doesn't. He only RC'ed once from what I saw

[JinSaotome]

you do C inferno divider, but you have to RC it or he'll roll up to you and set up the 2C 8D loop for free

[Beowulf]

However, if the throw is done high enough, Ragna's inferno divider won't hit anyone (nor Carl, nor his puppet) so it's a free combo behind as he won't be able to RC it...

[Zeero]

However, if the throw is done high enough, Ragna's inferno divider won't hit anyone (nor Carl, nor his puppet) so it's a free combo behind as he won't be able to RC it...

if the throw is done high enough (im assuming u mean higher than where nirvana can even hit) then theres no point anyway, because he can just and airdash out.

if there is such a height that nirvana can hit u but u cant hit her with your full body hitbox, then that means the combo is going to end, just take that throw like a man.

[Kyle]

Yay for Carl Thread!

[Braver]

Yes, that's exactly him! Thanks for the pic.

He looks like Carl on this pic:

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh64/Balthier_Bunanza/CarlKuro.jpg

(sorry for the bad quality. YouTube screenshot only ^^

link to youtube video plz

[dice]

so when is Zero going to officially become the moderator for this section ?

[Kyle]

Played BB again! had a 12 win streak at one point! I've finally become comfortable with buffer/re-buffer/negative edge w/ ne~san.

I pulled off most of his loops.

I figured out that the "Pro-JP loop" with the low to the ground air throws is easiest achieved if Carl SuperJumps to match the opponents elevation. This way you can actually meet at the apex. =)

Met another Carl player. Hella fun to talk strats and watch someone else. This guy didn't realize that the spacing on the pro-loop had the opponent hitting the back side of the bubble, causing the additional time to meeting at the apex.

Does that make sense guys?

Mods have yet to be decided to BB forums. We're addressing this at staff forums. =)

[Zoogstin]

This guy didn't realize that the spacing on the pro-loop had the opponent hitting the back side of the bubble, causing the additional time to meeting at the apex.

Does that make sense guys?

Mods have yet to be decided to BB forums. We're addressing this at staff forums. =)

Its cool to know that you did well.

And I don't know what you mean by your loop comment. Are you saying that the opponent has a longer time to travel and thus you have to wait longer before you can throw them?

[Kyle]

You almost got it. =)

The opponent has a longer time in the air. This gives Carl enough time to SuperJump and meet his opponent at the apex of their ascent. They both fall the exact same speed, meaning an air-throw extremely low to the ground is gonna connect.

You can not just jump&Airthrow because the throw would end up being to high in elevation to pick up after Carl uses all of his air options.

See 5:20 for example.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IfdtGw3i1w&feature=channel_page

[NeoUmbra]

You almost got it. =)

The opponent has a longer time in the air. This gives Carl enough time to SuperJump and meet his opponent at the apex of their ascent. They both fall the exact same speed, meaning an air-throw extremely low to the ground is gonna connect.

You can not just jump&Airthrow because the throw would end up being to high in elevation to pick up after Carl uses all of his air options.

See 5:20 for example.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IfdtGw3i1w&feature=channel_page

OMG! 6:21 in that vid. DIO is a freaken legend.

[Alternate275]

Wow! A whole new section on dustloop =O

Forgive me for being off topic.. But I am astounded o.o

[Zoogstin]

So whats this biz of Dio not playing Carl in the latest Gamechariot vids?

[Kyle]

Typo... has to be

[Zeero]

well when DIO can pretty much do 100% combos consistently but he doesn't win nearly as consistently, i think its quite discouraging. He just needs a break from low tier.

[Zoogstin]

Thats what I was thinking. I was thinking of playing V-13 as a secondary for that specific reason.

[Zeero]

I play bang secondary for that reason.

what am i thinking??

[Zeero]

So someone told me that SBO is thinking whether they should BAN CARL"S THROW TRAP because some players are whining about it.

Now to me, thats just saying "Carl is not allowed to win" because even with the throw trap, carl loses more than winning. Without that, i honestly cant think of 1 other thing that gives him a fighting chance (miracles don't count).

Might as well ban arakune's D button or something lol.

Just had to express my anger somewhere. Horrible.

[Shiri]

Heh. Where'd they get that information?

[stinkymonz]

WHY IS IT OK IF IT'S BANNED

Throw trap isn't necessarily his only source of damage; good sandwich loops can reach high 4000s and he still has a myriad of combo options and setups to play with. You can't throw trap Rachel 90% of the time, and the matchup (while I consider is his worst one now atm) is still fairly managable (at least based on that one Shadow vs. Dio vid).

WHY BOTHER BANNING

The 100% throw trap combos are [so far] only workable on Bang and Tager which concurrently use up almost 100% nee-san bar as well. The 100%s on everyone else are still WIP, if at all possible (as there's a lot more room for error) and also use almost all nee-san bar. Which means, should you evade Carl long enough and keep forcing him to use nee-san outside of combos, at neutral or along the way hitting nee-san you couldn't be hit by the full brunt of the trap anyway.

And even with the trap, Carl still hasn't been spectacularly sweeping wins across the Japanese tournament scene. And we can't make judgements based on vids because vids uploaded are only like what, 5%-10% of what happens on the ground?

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Anything else to add?

I'm also actually of the opinion Carl's the most GGesque character of all, in the sense that out of all the characters in BB he's really the only person who brings on that 'I get touched, I die' sense, which can be evidenced by players bursting at first opportunity and the GGesque footsie playing. Which I suppose in a game like BB could be potentially game-breaking, but again, so far nothing spectacular has really happened yet because of Carl. Has Dio been trying to qualify, actually? Can't read Japanese, so no casual infiltration of the Japanese blogosphere on my end.