[CT] Carl Clover Tactical Discussion/Questions/Help

[magz]

There is vulnerability at the start/middle of fwd and back wakeup techs. Neutral wakeup techs are invincible until you land, just like floor bounce techs.

So there's no recovery vulnerability at all once the tech (forward/neutral/back) has completed at all?

[||||||]

Lastly:

2B 5B does not seem to work in an otg string. Can anyone confirm this? 2a 5b works but they get launched too high for j.A j.B air throw... Also, isn't this air throw techable pretty easily?

yea its 2a, 5b. it is possible for air throw. should also mention they tech after being thrown thats why land and do 632146C. If you have no meter you can land and do 5b to another air combo.

[Master Chibi]

This character is going to be broken as fuck and top tier, it's so bloody obvious.

He's also absurdly fun to play with too.

Not sure what I can add in here really.

Well I could probably add a lot but wuttava~

[NeoUmbra]

Birthplace: Australia

オーストリア　= Austria not Australia.

[HCO_]

Only Austria could house a nutcase of this calibre.

[magz]

オーストリア　= Austria not Australia.

Whoops. Jumped the gun there.

One thing I read on the bbs which I kind of confirmed today in the arcade is that a fully charged 6C would seem to be unblockable completely and causes stagger into knockdown on hit. Anyone know how long it takes to full charge? Easiest setup would be a blocked 236236D in the corner or even midscreen if you roll to the other side and your opponent blocks it.

In addition to that, even if they burst during the dolls 236236D, the doll will continue attacking and your opponent might have just caused a reset. Hell, the doll will continue beating up your opponent even if you die >_>

Still can't get those damned 2C 8D loops off of throw. The timing seems a little strict or perhaps it's just because I haven't seen it in a video yet.

[Zeero]

i got the 2c 8D loop once or twice... only during mercy round tho

getting a throw is my problem.

How reliable is 6A as an anti air? I've tried and it didnt work out too well... im just hoping im mistiming it

[magz]

I also tried using 6a anti-air today. It seems to have a very small window of active frames and I can't say anything about it's invulnerability (because it doesn't seem to have any)...

I also hope it's a timing issue on my end -.-

Some new videos on nico:

Carl vs. Noel

Carl vs. Rachel

[Master Chibi]

6C needs to be charged completely to be unblockable, otherwise it's just an overhead.

6A is also a really good anti air that can be jc'd on hit to lead to an air combo.

Fubar does the loop around 2:20 here -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCItue0HyDE

[fubarduck]

6A is excellent anti-air, but the number of active frames is very small. You can't stick it out and let it whiff (punishable), you really have to have no fear and just wait until they get close to you. It has upper-body invincibility so it will not get beaten. After you hit them with it once or twice, you are going to want to start waiting for your opponent to dash or double jump before throwing it out, otherwise you will get baited/punished (same as all of the good anti-air 6As in Guilty Gear).

Unfortunately, all you get afterwards is jB, double jump B, jC.

[magz]

Carl on TRF (2 matches)

Carl vs. Taokaka (Cam recording)

From the first video, it would look as though, distance-dependent, you could use 623C and it would be safe in a blockstring. The Carl in the video tended to follow it up with con fuoco (41236D).

[Master Chibi]

It depends on the distance. If you do it too close the doll will go right past them I believe.

[NeoUmbra]

6C needs to be charged completely to be unblockable, otherwise it's just an overhead.

6A is also a really good anti air that can be jc'd on hit to lead to an air combo.

Fubar does the loop around 2:20 here -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCItue0HyDE

Personally i lawled at the YEAAAAH YEEEAAAAAAH!

Also that gear special from the vids ive seen could be very useful.

[magz]

DIO (Carl) vs. Shadow (Bang) - Great pressure on DIO's part. 5C seems to have a ton of block/hit stun.

DIO (Carl) vs. Manakan (Litchi) (2 Matches) - 5C (through the doll) 623C is a pretty neat trick if your opponent has the wrong spacing.

A question this video brought to mind is: what is the best guard break punish combo without nirvana with/without 50% tension? My best guess would be [5B] 5C 623C Air Combo or [5B] 5C 632146C with 50%.

At around 5:09, DIO does j.B j.C (I assume it to be bc, although it's very hard to see) during a blocked con fuoco. If that works off IAD it'll be a pretty useful tool for pressure.

At around 6:01 DIO IAD's back at the start of the round and throws out a 623C on landing. During the 623C, he uses 6D to both protect himself and attack the enemy. It's stuffed by Litchi, but the second time around he nets a CH 6D which staggers into a knockdown. Since 623C appears to be his longest reaching move other than his overdrive, it is highly suited to this kind of trap. Other options when baiting include anti air (8D/623D) and super armor (4D/41236D/63214D/236236D). This type of offensive looks very promising IMO.

In regards to the throw loop, based off what fubarduck has stated earlier, 8D has two hits and the aim when doing the loop is to hit the opponent with the latter of the two hits? Furthermore, it doesn't seem to matter where the 8D hits the opponent (in front of or behind) just so long as it's that second hit.

六チャリ店員Ｍ (Litchi) vs. Dio (Carl)

At around 00:30, I can't see very well, but is that a jump cancel on blocked 5B?

2:48 - It would seem 6A has a bigger hitbox than I would have thought. Here it hits directly above and a little behind carl's head.

3:01 - DIO does a low IAD j.A j.A j.B. I don't know about the guard stun of j.B, but if this string could work with j.A j.B j.C or (as above) j.B j.C it would be great to reduce the chance you'll be punished on IB'd iad j.C.

3:39 - Trading with 632146C seems to be extremely in your favor since you get control of both your own character and Nirvana. Hopefully this wasn't just a one-time thing and the move actually has enough startup invulnerability to work in such a manner.

Lastly, I didn't have time to test it, but does 6C always cause stagger into knockdown on hit or is it only on full charge?

[Zeero]

im not sure but somewhere i think i saw DIO do

6C (no charge i think) 5B 5C whatever

the 6C seems to have immense hitstun. the 5B that he connected afterwards doesn even look like a gatling, it was just a link.

[magz]

Perhaps it was the stagger into knockdown that 6C was doing this weekend when I tried it. I don't know whether or not it was full charge or not though. Will test if BB is up at SJSU today.

Edit: Interesting combos from the BBS -

"close 2A 2B 3C forward SJ 2C 214C land 5B j.B j.C 214C"

It's apparently character specific and from the looks of it the damage isn't very high. Would be interesting to see the damage comparison between this and 5B 5C 623C [5B] j.B j/dj.C 214C for non-meter combo without nirvana.

"2A>(22D)>5B>6B>623C>5B>(236A)>2D>[2C>8D]*2or3"

-After the teleport lag ends, hit 2D.

-Throw out 5B as late as possible. There should not be a gap if you hit it right.

-2d should be "mashed" during 623C (or is it during 236A? The original poster said j.214C as the move, but that can't be right...) around when the opponent is being pulled back.

-Before 8D you will need to move the doll closer to Carl. [Perhaps something like [6D] ... 8 ]D[?]

-It's possible to do 3 loops, but 2 is safer.

-Damage for 2 loops is 1800 and 3 is 2200.

-Starting the combo from 5B won't work because the 22d will be too late.

I didn't even know that 6B comboed into 623C but if it does, then this opens up a window for the 2C 8D loop from a 2A which would be great.

[Alternate275]

DIO (Carl) vs. Shadow (Bang) - Great pressure on DIO's part. 5C seems to have a ton of block/hit stun.

DIO (Carl) vs. Manakan (Litchi) (2 Matches) - 5C (through the doll) 623C is a pretty neat trick if your opponent has the wrong spacing.

A question this video brought to mind is: what is the best guard break punish combo without nirvana with/without 50% tension? My best guess would be [5B] 5C 623C Air Combo or [5B] 5C 632146C with 50%.

At around 5:09, DIO does j.B j.C (I assume it to be bc, although it's very hard to see) during a blocked con fuoco. If that works off IAD it'll be a pretty useful tool for pressure.

At around 6:01 DIO IAD's back at the start of the round and throws out a 623C on landing. During the 623C, he uses 6D to both protect himself and attack the enemy. It's stuffed by Litchi, but the second time around he nets a CH 6D which staggers into a knockdown. Since 623C appears to be his longest reaching move other than his overdrive, it is highly suited to this kind of trap. Other options when baiting include anti air (8D/623D) and super armor (4D/41236D/63214D/236236D). This type of offensive looks very promising IMO.

In regards to the throw loop, based off what fubarduck has stated earlier, 8D has two hits and the aim when doing the loop is to hit the opponent with the latter of the two hits? Furthermore, it doesn't seem to matter where the 8D hits the opponent (in front of or behind) just so long as it's that second hit.

六チャリ店員Ｍ (Litchi) vs. Dio (Carl)

At around 00:30, I can't see very well, but is that a jump cancel on blocked 5B?

2:48 - It would seem 6A has a bigger hitbox than I would have thought. Here it hits directly above and a little behind carl's head.

3:01 - DIO does a low IAD j.A j.A j.B. I don't know about the guard stun of j.B, but if this string could work with j.A j.B j.C or (as above) j.B j.C it would be great to reduce the chance you'll be punished on IB'd iad j.C.

3:39 - Trading with 632146C seems to be extremely in your favor since you get control of both your own character and Nirvana. Hopefully this wasn't just a one-time thing and the move actually has enough startup invulnerability to work in such a manner.

Lastly, I didn't have time to test it, but does 6C always cause stagger into knockdown on hit or is it only on full charge?

Darn xD

Yall had fun while I was on my thanksgiving break

[Zeero]

Perhaps it was the stagger into knockdown that 6C was doing this weekend when I tried it. I don't know whether or not it was full charge or not though. Will test if BB is up at SJSU today.

Edit: Interesting combos from the BBS -

"close 2A 2B 3C forward SJ 2C 214C land 5B j.B j.C 214C"

It's apparently character specific and from the looks of it the damage isn't very high. Would be interesting to see the damage comparison between this and 5B 5C 623C [5B] j.B j/dj.C 214C for non-meter combo without nirvana.

"2A>(22D)>5B>6B>623C>5B>(236A)>2D>[2C>8D]*2or3"

-After the teleport lag ends, hit 2D.

-Throw out 5B as late as possible. There should not be a gap if you hit it right.

-2d should be "mashed" during 623C (or is it during 236A? The original poster said j.214C as the move, but that can't be right...) around when the opponent is being pulled back.

-Before 8D you will need to move the doll closer to Carl. [Perhaps something like [6D] ... 8 ]D[?]

-It's possible to do 3 loops, but 2 is safer.

-Damage for 2 loops is 1800 and 3 is 2200.

-Starting the combo from 5B won't work because the 22d will be too late.

I didn't even know that 6B comboed into 623C but if it does, then this opens up a window for the 2C 8D loop from a 2A which would be great.

are you serious about 2D? or 8D? the fact that you said 2D twice (and 8D afterwards) makes me think you actually mean 2D... but i cannot possibly imagine how 2d would hit.

but yes, 6B does combo into 623C, its what im using for my B&B combo because 5C sometimes knock them too far for 5B to connect afterwards

[magz]

are you serious about 2D? or 8D? the fact that you said 2D twice (and 8D afterwards) makes me think you actually mean 2D... but i cannot possibly imagine how 2d would hit.

but yes, 6B does combo into 623C, its what im using for my B&B combo because 5C sometimes knock them too far for 5B to connect afterwards

I was curious about that too, but it's a direct copy/paste of the combo from the bbs.

It might work though. My guess is that the notation 2D refers to 2D actually hitting (rather than you inputting the move) after you hit 5S during your 236A because the gap between 5B 236A would seem to big IMO to hit a 2C after.

[Zeero]

I was curious about that too, but it's a direct copy/paste of the combo from the bbs.

It might work though. My guess is that the notation 2D refers to 2D actually hitting (rather than you inputting the move) after you hit 5S during your 236A because the gap between 5B 236A would seem to big IMO to hit a 2C after.

i know it meant a 2D hitting... i just cant really picture how it works out...

like... it slams them on the ground or something?

anyway, will try that tonight and see

[magz]

- Carl: 6B~C. Farthest of anyone, as far as I could tell! Good job, kiddo.

Longest kara throw? Get hype. 4k damage loops aren't looking so hard now. Thinking about it now, 6B's hitbox is ridiculous.

[Jin Leonhart]

Okay, quick question.

Are you 100% invulnerable after a throw tech?

If not, this could be good for Carl. Like, sandwich blockstring -> throw -> they tech -> Nirvana hits right after they tech -> rape

[Zeero]

"2A>(22D)>5B>6B>623C>5B>(236A)>2D>[2C>8D]*2or3"

couldn't get that to work for the life of me yesterday... nirvana is too far back for the 2D to connect so i think you have to move her forward in there somewhere...I also tried it with a 8D instead of a 2D... it looked more possible but i still couldn't pull it off.

On a side note, the 2c 8d loop off a forward throw against Jin, you have to move nirvana back a bit before the 8D else the 8D whiffs. Thats what i realized last night.

Its really hard for carl when he gets rushed down because he really doesnt have much escape options... any ideas? I seriously can end up using all my barrier FDing and still achieve nothing. Rolling has no invincibility and i can't get nirvana near me when im blocking all the time. Eventually my guard will break and i eat a combo. If its an air combo, thats the only time i can get nirvana back because i can summon her after i tech... but usally combos knockdown

Oh and i also used 6A to anti air... its kind of funny because i think we trade hits sometimes but i end up being the one who can do a follow up combo coz they're floating in the air... I hope its just me not timing it correctly. it'd suck if an anti air only works when i sacrifice life for it

[magz]

During pressure try to use FD and IB and see if there are holes in your opponents blockstrings. You can't just IB everything though. Use a combination of FD and IB to get yourself in a better position. If you can squeeze in a poke, go for it. However, there are more safe options.

Two options I use normally after IB are sj. FD jump AD (don't know if 1 frame jumps exist anymore, but just to be on the safe side) and roll. It does have invulnerability, just not full. My guess, as stated earlier, is either foot or knee up invuln. Will have to wait on the frame data to know exactly during what parts though.

Another possibility would be FD 22D if you push your opponent out far enough, there might be a gap where you can teleport nirvana to you.

@Jin Leonheart: I've been speculating with that as well and, if there wasn't a mechanic that was implemented specifically preventing such a thing, I don't see why it would not work that way. In regards to invulnerability, I would assume there to be some specifically for the situation you described. I haven't had a chance to test it out myself though.

[Zeero]

what do you use to try to interrupt people in their string?

i find 2a REALLY slow and have very short reach...

sometimes i try 5b/2b but its risky if i whiff.

from far away, i try 5C. 6B sometimes if i feel that they're going to try to rush in. If i get a CH, 5C -> air combo is nice