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[CT] Carl Clover Tactical Discussion/Questions/Help

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5b has some good range, but it doesn't come out as fast as 2a or 5a.

It looks like 2a doesn't have that great of a range though.

I primarily go for the super jump.

2A>2B>3C>22D>2B>2C>236A>HJB>J214C>8D

(Input 8D during HJB)

Interesting combo off of 2A that eventually should net a "knockdown" after the 8D. Seems a little easier than the other combo that leads into the 2C 8D loop at least.

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Well I've only watched vids and I can only imagine different situations. But I can't see why he'd be THAT low >.>

Johnny of BlazBlue....? Nah........

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A lot of people have been saying he's rank 10/10 (i.e worst of the worst :psyduck:), but this is before anyone knew how to play him.

Also, can you throw break Con Anima, and can he get any good damage off of it? I imagine with a character between Carl and Nirvana, you can do some serious mixup (especially with Cantata of Grace out, use Con Anima during the block stun and throw out an overhead/low while they block)

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You can break out of Con Anima if nirvana grabbed them during block/hitstun. Because it tosses behind nirvana and stuntime isnt that great, the only option for a follow up really is only 236A/B superjump B jump BC (which doesnt even add that much damage, but better than nothing). Its not as great as you think because it is REALLY slow and if it whiffs, nirvana will be walking for a long time and you'll be nirvana-less for a good while.

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Haha, thats very true. I still see him being mid tier at least, and he looks really interesting to play.

blargafagesg, so many interesting characters in this game, I'm gonna end up using like half of them, lol

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Im not sure if this is true or not but i havent seen it mentioned. Its something i just saw on the DIO vids on gamechariot (especially the one vs jin) and have a theory of.

For the 2a 5a 5b 5c (6D) loop that DIO does, if you pay attention carefully, you can see that for the first 6D that nirvana does, you can see that blue sign on top of her head (the activation symbol i guess), for the remaining ones, this blue sign doesn't exist.

So what does this mean? Nirvana (i think) actually works like this:

If she is doing a move from non activated, she has to first activate herself before she is able to do the move. This usually happens if you just do 6D (tapping).

Another way of controlling nirvana is this:

If you press and hold D, nirvana activates, moves around (if you make her), and when you release D while you're holding 6, the 6D comes out. This makes 6D come out "faster" because you stripped the "activation frames of nirvana"

This means that if you are already controlling nirvana before she does a move, she'll do the move faster. This sounds kind of complicated because my wording is immensely wrong but take the DIO loop for example

2a 5a 5b 5c (6D) repeat

I was trying to do 2a 5a 5b (6dtap) 5c repeat, but i couldn't loop it consistently. But i think what DIO does is something like

2a 5a 5b (6dhold) 5c (release D)

hold d while Carl dashes/walks

2a 5a 5b (hold 6) 6c (this is just 5c because only 6c doesn't gatling from 5b) release D while holding 6

hold D while Carl dashes/walks

repeat.

What this does:

Starting from the first 6D, if you hold D before Nirvana "deactivates herself", then you skip the "nirvana activation" action in your loop, allowing Nirvana to move faster for the remaining 6Ds that you want to do in your combo/lockdown.

This is what i think it is, if you look at the DIO vs Jin in gamechariot, you can clearly see the difference pretty early in the match.

Can someone confirm?

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The way I thought it worked, was that the input you did last before letting go of D is the one you are choosing. Am I mistaken?

With that logic, I would do 2A 5A 5B+[5D] 5C ]6D[ (the instant after you release 5C).

Also, if this logic holds true, you could hold D along with any part of this string, for instance: 2A or 5A and that would get rid of any activation startup as well.

Of course, this works only if the way I described the input system for Nirvana is correct.

In regards to holding D down before Nirvana finishes a move, it would be really easy to test, but I never gave thought to it -.-"

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The way I thought it worked, was that the input you did last before letting go of D is the one you are choosing. Am I mistaken?

With that logic, I would do 2A 5A 5B+[5D] 5C ]6D[ (the instant after you release 5C).

Also, if this logic holds true, you could hold D along with any part of this string, for instance: 2A or 5A and that would get rid of any activation startup as well.

Of course, this works only if the way I described the input system for Nirvana is correct.

In regards to holding D down before Nirvana finishes a move, it would be really easy to test, but I never gave thought to it -.-"

No you're not mistaken, the input you last did before letting go of D is the one you're choosing.

What i'm simply saying is.

When nirvana does an attack from "not active" mode, theres an extra few frames in the beginning for nirvana to "activate"

Once nirvana is activated, you can hold D before she "deactivates" herself to continue having her in "active" mode, skipping any more "activate" frames that you would have needed if you decided to "activate" her after she completes her move and "deactivates" herself.

hmm, i should have said that the first time, sounds clearer

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No you're not mistaken, the input you last did before letting go of D is the one you're choosing.

What i'm simply saying is.

When nirvana does an attack from "not active" mode, theres an extra few frames in the beginning for nirvana to "activate"

Once nirvana is activated, you can hold D before she "deactivates" herself to continue having her in "active" mode, skipping any more "activate" frames that you would have needed if you decided to "activate" her after she completes her move and "deactivates" herself.

hmm, i should have said that the first time, sounds clearer

Hmm, I don't think you can Hold D to make Nirvana do more than one move without deactivating. I think when you do a move after holding D it instantly deactivates her. I say I think, because I thought I had tested this in the past, but now I'm having second thoughts. I'll try it again tonight.

On a side note, whenever I try that throw-port into 2C, 8D loop, my teleport never comes out if I tap 22D, it seems to only work if I (Hold D) 22 (release). Maybe it's just the way I do my inputs, but I can never get it by tapping.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_Vh5ZI89z4

the vid i was talking about

at 0:32, the loop starts

1st nirvana hit, you see the activation symbol

for all the hits afterwards, the symbol isnt there

at 0:43, he screws up? and the symbol is there again.

So either (i think)

1. you can hold D to continue having nirvana in activation

2. theres a certain window after nirvana's move for you to input another nirvana move to make it into a nirvana chain. (i guess pretty much the same as 1, just instead of hold, its a properly timed tap)

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So either (i think)

1. you can hold D to continue having nirvana in activation

2. theres a certain window after nirvana's move for you to input another nirvana move to make it into a nirvana chain. (i guess pretty much the same as 1, just instead of hold, its a properly timed tap)

Definitely need to get this tested.

Something to note in that video:

@1:23 DIO does a blockstring into 5C but he activated Nirvana too late. 623C comes in handy in a situation like this as shown in the video so that you can hold your opponent in blockstun for that second longer.

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Damn, carl's sounding better every day now. So negative edging comes into play with her a lot huh? For Nirvana chains, how many/what moves can she chain together before she deactivates? Does it also expend more of her health? I know you guys don't know everything yet of course but it'd be something worth testing I think.

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Using moves depletes Nirvana's gauge a little. She regains health when not in use.

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Damn, carl's sounding better every day now. So negative edging comes into play with her a lot huh? For Nirvana chains, how many/what moves can she chain together before she deactivates? Does it also expend more of her health? I know you guys don't know everything yet of course but it'd be something worth testing I think.

each move uses a different amount of bar i think.

pretty pointless to count because the thing that hurts nirvana most is getting hit.

One time I think i made her get hit by that charge move from tager, and it took like 40% off her. :psyduck:

I'm pretty sure she only regens life in deactivated mode... does she use life to walk around? i dont notice it because i just assumed she wont (it wouldnt make sense). But maybe its just something really slow.

I like how im seeing a lot of zappa faces in this thread. Zappa players truly think alike. hi everybody :yaaay:

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To sum up (?): you can pretty much do combos by using the button backwards.

Normally to do tap a button you are doing [D] ]D[ (press/release).

Instead, when you want to start doing stuff with Nirvana, you [D], then for every move you want to do you do ]D[ [D], release/press. Kinda like Bridget's repeated yoyo-callbacks in AC, or playing Boxer in ST - you end up playing with the button down a lot.

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All I know was that Nirvana start-up felt long as hell when I got a chance to try this out. Can you give an example for a Carl combo showing when to push and also when to release D to activate Nirvana's attack?

I didn't get to try to much, but I was playing other people, so in an attempt to save money and try to stay on the machine I ended up just spamming Nirvana's drill attack while running away until they were in block stun =/. It really didn't work too bad, but I was the only one there winning/losing from time-outs >.>

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To sum up (?): you can pretty much do combos by using the button backwards.

Normally to do tap a button you are doing [D] ]D[ (press/release).

Instead, when you want to start doing stuff with Nirvana, you [D], then for every move you want to do you do ]D[ [D], release/press. Kinda like Bridget's repeated yoyo-callbacks in AC, or playing Boxer in ST - you end up playing with the button down a lot.

kinda.

But anyway, i tested it today and i was right, it is possible to hold down D to keep nirvana activated so there wouldn't be an activation animation for your next move.

you CAN tap after the previous nirvana move has finished, but the window is very tight for this (i think different moves have different window, tapping after 6D seemed a lot harder than tapping after 8D). You'd most likely want to use the hold and release method anyway because it gives you better control.

Anyway, the loop now is

2a 5a 5b 6d (tap) 6c (nirvana hits)

2a 5a 5b [D] 6C ]D[

repeat

Because nirvana is in recovery until 5C of the next move, you can press and hold D during any of the 2a 5a 5b. holding D after 5b just felt nice for me, use whatever you feel like.

But definately a lot faster startup.

I also tried the button tapping way. Note that nirvana is in recovery until 5C actually hits.

so

2a 5a 5b 6c (tap) 6c (nirvana hits)

2a 5a 5b 6c (mash d)

repeat

this also works, if you happen to mash D at the right time, nirvana won't deactivate. However even tho i mash pretty quickly, it would fail on me every 1/3 times.

I wouldn't use the arm drill so carelessly because people can airdash over it and carl's anti air is pretty shitty. I tried to anti air people today and i got CHed.

When they airdash over, and you don't/fail anti air, then you're pretty screwed because if they rush you down, ur not gonna see nirvana for a good while.

Also, 623C drags a set distance. So if it hits too far away, you can't follow up with anything. Maybe you can use nirvana and do 623D or something.

oh. And holding down D even without moving nirvana (just to keep her in activation) drains her meter too. It also seems like theres different recovery time for her depending on what move she got hit out of. ie, recovering from a hit while she is juts activated is much faster than recovery from a hit when she was trying to do 41236D. (didn't really test this, just something that i thought i noticed while she was getting owned, i'll test it on friday or if someone gets to test it before that, test it out.)

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loser? you know whats a loser?

Carls a loser.

Lets share what i found today.

i can use nirvana better in links. I can actually do that loop pretty much everytime now. But guess what.

After 3 repetitions, hitstun has been reduced so much it no longer connects. Guess how much damage i get after 3 repetitions? 2k. thats right, a whooping 2k of damage for all the effort in the world. Its not even a viable option to end it with a knockdown because unlike everybody else in the fucking game, Carl hops. Hopping = no tech traps because i cant catch up to your tech. So what can i do? Just keep looping and pray you eventually get hit again, while all you do is block and i kill nirvana by myself because i need her in my loop.

Great so lets make a summary of who can beat carl.

People who can rushdown

People who has a spammable projectile

People who is faster than carl

People who has anti air

People who has better range than carl

People who has better mobility than carl

People who has better damage than carl

Lets share a story.

I do the robot super, hermes does the stick super, we both get hit. I lose 40% life, hermes loses 20%. we both didn't burst. GREAT FUCKING GAME.

So seriously, what the fuck was arc sammy thinking when they made such a piece of shit character? I think the story goes something like this.

Dev A: Alright guys, we have 9 characters, they all seem pretty top tier and have their own specialty, are we done?

Dev B: I think we should have 10 characters, 9 seems kinda low

Dev C: You're probably correct, so what top tier should we make now?

Dev A: You know what? I'm tired of making top tiers.

Dev B: yea hes right, lets make a low tier.

Dev C: hm okay. Lets make a list of what top tiers have and give this character the opposite of everything a top tier has.

*Makes list*

Damage

Range

Speed

Defense

Pot Buster

Good anti air

Good jump in

Ways to get out of pressure

Ways to keep pressure

Dev A: okay guys. So lets give this guy shit everything

Dev B: I think for the upper guys to accept this he has to at least look like he has potential. Lets give him potential, then restrict it.

Dev C: okay, so damage. He can have good potential damage, But only from impossible to do startups.

Dev A: Okay, lets give him a bit of range, but make all his moves have idiotic recovery on whiff

Dev B: People will probably feel fast when they see him hop instead of dash. So lets give him that, except lets make it punishable.

Dev C:Shit defense is a must, theres no way around it

*nods*

Dev A: Pot buster? yea right. You know what'd be funny? An anti air that has no range and small hitbox, and shit invincibility. Lets give him that. He can trade hits to anti air ONLY if hes lucky.

Dev B: lolol sounds like a great idea. Lets give him a shit jumpin too to make sure he cant pull out any winning miracles.

Dev C: lolol, okay. Lets not give him a VV. We'll let him get out of pressure with a roll type of move. But lets not give this move any invincibility and a huge recovery so he can get baited for free, unlike every other uppercut we've made so far.

Dev A: You know whats the best way to do pressure? 2v1. So lets give him a robot doll or something. But make it so it dies and cant do anything while the character is blocking so the robot is essentially shit. Remember to make it the slowest thing in the game so he cant actually use it for any good purpose!!

Dev B: man, this character is beautiful.

Dev C: Yea i just cant wait until these retards think hes top tier and try to use him to top tier. We'll b fucking swimming in money thanks to these fucking retards.

and thats how carl was born.

Seriously, today i used Rachel coz hermes was using arakune. I felt much better.

I can use anybody in this fucking game better than this piece of shit character.

This is what i realized today.

No matter how much you improve with Carl, a piece of shit is a piece of shit. This is real talk. Hes hopeless, he can go to hell coz theres no way he can win on a competitive level.

Fucking piece of shit. You think he can beat someone who cant pressure too well and has no projectile like Litchi? No fucking way. One move from her is.

Anti robot

Anti air

Anti roll

Anti poke

Anti carl.

Okay nevermind. Lets pick in tager instead because he has no mobility.

BAM pot buster good by 50% life.

BAM hammerfall my fucking robot it loses 40% life

BAM my robot is dead, magnetise me and pot buster me all you want, im dead in 1 hit anyway.

Nope fail again. Lets pick on scrubs who has never played the game, i must win right?

*Eats random 2As which end up doing 20%*

no worries, its okay, he cant get out of my loop

2a 5a 5b 6b 6D

WHAT THE FUCK I GOT RANDOM SUPERED INBETWEEN MY 5B 6B WHICH IS A FUCKING GATLING COMABO AND I LOST 40% LIFE FROM A FUCKING SUPER AND LOST

Who the fuck do i beat on now?

In fact, hes so bad i think if another Carl player comes along, we'd get 3 timeout games of double KO and both fucking lose.

I think i understand the problem. Carl is the fucking problem.

I probably stand a better chance using Nirvana alone than using Carl with Nirvana. Piece of shit kid should stay home and drink his english tea.

LOL! Post was so good i had to show it here.

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The only part of Aksys's dastardly plan that fell on its face is that by making carl seem awesome, they'd be swimming in money cause everyone wants to play him.

But pretty much no one uses him anyway. :vbang:

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