[CT] Jin Kisaragi General Discussion

[ryokoalways]

All of Jin's d specials are outrageously good depending on situations. Seriously, there is no point in either super unless you are going for the kill, or somehow land a sweet combo starter, because then you can break out 6k+ given 75% or more meter.

[KEmperain]

I skimmed the first few pages of the thread, but I don't think I saw anything that thoroughly explained what I am looking for. Here'goes:

What to do against a crouching opponent?

Okay, so you're applying the usual pressure, but from what I've seen or tested, there isn't anything that allows a "fluid" continuation of pressure from the usual options. (5D, j.B, god forbid ice car unless RC'd, 3C, 6B > followups, 5B > followups [throw?], IAD 236D, dunno if I'm missing anything else)

5D seems to space both you and your opponent far enough that it resets your momentum, j.B becomes too slow and thus predictable because you have to use a falling j.B for it to connect, ice car is... ice car and punishable on block, 3C is much like 5D, 5B > throw is techable/predictable.

Good options IMO:

6B > 236D, IAD 236D, possibly ice car A but I suppose I would only use it to get closer after being pushed back (barrier guard) and thus continue pressure, and maybe j.B > jc.whatever if your opponent doesn't react.

I suppose the regular course of action would be to use gimmicks and frame traps to get a reaction, but that sounds like I'm just answering my own question. I'd like some discussion, please. Suggestions?

Oh yeah, is there any jump-in that can be followed up after 5B (2) > 5C? I've only tested/gotten j.C to work against Hakumen and even then the j.C may be character specific.

[ocdscale]

Oh yeah, is there any jump-in that can be followed up after 5B (2) > 5C? I've only tested/gotten j.C to work against Hakumen and even then the j.C may be character specific.

5B(2) 5C jB jC jD then whatever is a BnB against most of the cast. Timing is easiest on characters like Ragna or Tager, hardest on Nu, Noel, Carl and Arakune. There's a breakdown of the timing somewhere.

It's something like delay the first 5C, immediately jump towards and jB, delay the jC, delay the jD.

[drunkenchicken]

Im not sure if this was posted already but if an opponent is barrier gaurding almost never finish your string with 2c as it will consistantly with do to its lack of horizontal range. If i see that my opponent is barrier gaurding then i 2a a few times then 5b the 5c into 2d. 2d will connect if the opponent is pushed far out enough and is good for a few reasons. I cant look up the frame data right now but i believe it gives you enough plus frames to stuff whatever they wanna throw out with 2a or maybe even 5c for counter hit combos. If the try to jump block the 2d then it gives you enough time to run up and 5a them while they're in the air, which gives you a chance to waste some barrier, mixup( dash under 6a, 2b, throw) or set up an air unblockable if they arent barrier gaurding (2c, or dp). Backdashing is a gamble against 2d to becuase it will catch the backdash sometimes...this mostly depends on the character mostly ( tager and rachel can probably backdash 2d in blockstrings clean).

[lxMetalSonicxl]

".b/c when you grab and then do this distortion drive (while the opponent frozen on the air) it doesn't do a lot of damage...sometimes I just run and hit with this and cancel it into the Hiyoku...hmmmm.

"

Well, I don't know much but I do know that you can do the ice arrow after a counter hit Fubuki B. It does massive damage...

[Killey]

I skimmed the first few pages of the thread, but I don't think I saw anything that thoroughly explained what I am looking for. Here'goes:

What to do against a crouching opponent?

Okay, so you're applying the usual pressure, but from what I've seen or tested, there isn't anything that allows a "fluid" continuation of pressure from the usual options. (5D, j.B, god forbid ice car unless RC'd, 3C, 6B > followups, 5B > followups [throw?], IAD 236D, dunno if I'm missing anything else)

5D seems to space both you and your opponent far enough that it resets your momentum, j.B becomes too slow and thus predictable because you have to use a falling j.B for it to connect, ice car is... ice car and punishable on block, 3C is much like 5D, 5B > throw is techable/predictable.

Good options IMO:

6B > 236D, IAD 236D, possibly ice car A but I suppose I would only use it to get closer after being pushed back (barrier guard) and thus continue pressure, and maybe j.B > jc.whatever if your opponent doesn't react.

I suppose the regular course of action would be to use gimmicks and frame traps to get a reaction, but that sounds like I'm just answering my own question. I'd like some discussion, please. Suggestions?

I've posted a ton of block strings and frame trap options in the appropriate thread so you should go over there to look at that.

Most of these are okay follows up at best with the exception of IAD 236D which is godly if you space it so it's a reverse cross up. There are plenty of things you can do to continuously put your opponent into block stun with proper utilization of Jin's D moves.

5D does reset the momentum in most cases but there are several options here and are dependant on opponent reactions. From 5D you can do 236A and 236A gives you +frames on block. If the opponent blocks you can do 2D to also give plus frames to you and it brings them back within striking range so you can actually rush back in and reapply pressure with 2A, or 5B. It's also within 5C range and because of the +frames of 2D almost anything your opponent throws out (character specific since Litchi can Tsubame 5C but she it won't be a clean hit) will get beat by 5C for a CH combo. I wouldn't call this a frame trap per se but it's pretty good. However, 236A can be jumped over so it's not the best thing to use and this pressure string is better in the corner. If you do 5C, 5D in the corner and you find 5D doesn't push quite that far from your opponent then 236A is great as it's close enough that your opponent can't jump out and they have to block it where you can do 5C, 2D into the same situation as I mentioned before. If 5D pushes you away at max distance then 214A is good as your opponent is blocking this at the maximum distance so it gets you back in relatively safely. I beleive it's still punishable if your opponent IB's it but they have a smaller window to punish you and even then they probably can't maximize the damage due to the distance. If you are close when you 5D you can also follow up with 236D giving you a lot of frame advantage on block and gives you good hi/low games. Throw on 236D is too predictable and easy to tech so noone should use this option. Running in with 2B or run in empty jump into 2B is one option in this. My personal favorite is to run in IAD j.D cross up as they block 236D. This is incredibly hard to anticipate on and leads to a staple BnB into Jin's oki game.

Falling j.B's are indeed too slow and predictable and once predictable can get your counter air thrown. You can jump cancel after j.B to go for a cross up or simply land and throw. Straight jump delay j.C is alternatively used as it hits very low to the ground allowing you to land right away and resume ground pressure.

3C can be used to frame trap opponents by baiting them into a 623A or B again A Ice Car can be used but it's not the best option, imo.

5B into purple throw is stupid. 5B delay into green throw on the other hand is harder to read as 5B leads into a ton of Jin's frame traps and block strings. If you condition your opponent they shouldn't be able to read whether you will attempt a throw or whether you are frame trapping them into something else.

6B->236D is standard but try to delay to the 236D as much as possible since Jin stays in the air long enough to bait an attack. If they block 236D you can 2D upon landing pushing them closer to you for various things (back to the original thing I posted).

If they barrier guard in the corner with 6B you can IAD j.B, j.C, land rush in with 2A/5B pressure or 6B again to bait low attacks. Keep in mind if your opponent barrier guards your 5C and you get pushed max distance you can 2D right after wards or if they block 5C at max distance you can 2D after wards. It leaves you in a favorable position if they block 2D though I believe they can run after 5C and counter hit when you try to 2D; however, I don't think anyone is keen enough to do that as you could easily do 5D (and 5D is more common among Jin players) which will CH them.

A lot of these strings lead into Jin's mix up games and a single hit or CH leads into a BnB into potential resets. This is more along my style of Jin and I rely a lot on frame traps, tricks, and resets so by the time I'm done my opponent goes "WTF! DID I JUST GET LAID?!".

I should really stop posting my tricks on forums as I'm getting a ton of requests from random people online because "they heard about my Jin" and if I start doing mirrors everyone knows what I'm going for. :/

[ocdscale]

Geez, can we please get a sticky with every one of Killey's posts?

[Blade]

Just me saying this but...it seems like Jin is more effective in corners rather than Midscreen. Can anyone suggest what I could do to up my Midscreen offensive?

[drunkenchicken]

well what are you doing already? his jump b combos are fairly standard midscreen or if they dont work sekkajin combos also set up alot of jin bullshit, yea hes more effective in the corner because of 623b combos but jin can be effective midscreen as well.

[Killey]

The thing I feel about Jin is that his mid range game is really about zoning and the thing about his zoning is that it basically gives you an opportunity to get in close. For myself I like to zone at the beginning of a match with 5D, 2D, j236D, 623A/B/C/D, and j.B. Once I land a hit with any of these they pretty much land into a BnB that lets me stay close to the opponent and drive them into the corner. Use the stuff I mentioned above as stuff to use when he's close mid screen and work them towards the corner. Should the pacing reset then zone again until you can get close.

[ryokoalways]

You dish out damage in the corner, but your mixup/crossup game is at its best when you have room to manuver. Just having frametraps won't cut it.

[KEmperain]

Okay, thanks for the insight guys. My post was specifically about crouching opponents, but Killey's info applies regardless, I suppose. About the 5B > 5C > jump-in, I was asking if any would connect on a crouching opponent. I've yet to try an empty jump > 2B, but then again, I've never really tried empty jumps so that opens up more options for me.

My first post mainly came from me constantly getting 5B (2) > 5C on crouching opponents and wanting to know viable options. Another thing I haven't tried is 5B > 5C > 6C. I understand that 5C > 6C combos on crouching opponents, but are those two hits able to combo from a standard gatling or any other combo for that matter (jump-in or whatever)?

[Killey]

The only other time 5C will combo into 6C is if you CH with 5C only. You can't CH j.B into 5C->6C on a standing opponent for example. If you land the 5C->6C on a crouching opponent you have plenty of combo options that lead into multiple resets & mix ups as well.

[baohead]

How do you do a 2nd jump after a early whiffed j.b?. I found it very effective against tagers as they always try to backdash and 360/720 me. But sometimes I couldnt do double jump after whiffing the j.b. I tested it in training mode, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt EDIT:Never mind,i figured out timing. This is extremely effect against Tagers when they try to backdash and grab. Even if you j.b whiffed you'll get them in your 2nd jump which leads j.b j.c j.d combos. And its pretty safe on other characters

[KEmperain]

The only other time 5C will combo into 6C is if you CH with 5C only. You can't CH j.B into 5C->6C on a standing opponent for example. If you land the 5C->6C on a crouching opponent you have plenty of combo options that lead into multiple resets & mix ups as well.

So if you were to get 5B on a crouching opponent, would you be able to combo 5C > 6C after it?

[lxMetalSonicxl]

How do you do a 2nd jump after a early whiffed j.b?. I found it very effective against tagers as they always try to backdash and 360/720 me. But sometimes I couldnt do double jump after whiffing the j.b. I tested it in training mode, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt

EDIT:Never mind,i figured out timing. This is extremely effect against Tagers when they try to backdash and grab. Even if you j.b whiffed you'll get them in your 2nd jump which leads j.b j.c j.d combos. And its pretty safe on other characters

I think you can also use j.a to cancel but I'm not too sure.

[Killey]

So if you were to get 5B on a crouching opponent, would you be able to combo 5C > 6C after it?

Yes.

[Hades777]

Why do people get so butthurt over good jins? I can't count how many times I've been either kicked or the room is disbanded, then a new one comes up named "no jin" whats worse is a lot of this bitches play high tiers. Could just be scrub mentality, but I see a lot of people on here say Jin is broken too. how so, all his shit is based on making someone overeager and getting a ch through frame traps. jin has to fucking force the issue. granted j.b is godlike as is j.236D, 5d and 623a. but two of those has pretty bad recovery if missed. I mean carl has a death combo off 2a, kune has 5000. It just baffles me how you could hate on jin, he is just solid that's all. I spent a shitload of time in this character and it pisses me off when someone thinks I won just because of jin. I decided on maining jin before I even touched the game. anyone care to elaborate on this phenomenom of jin bitching?

[Darkhonor90]

Why do people get so butthurt over good jins?

I can't count how many times I've been either kicked or the room is disbanded, then a new one comes up named "no jin"

whats worse is a lot of this bitches play high tiers. Could just be scrub mentality, but I see a lot of people on here say Jin is broken too. how so, all his shit is based on making someone overeager and getting a ch through frame traps. jin has to fucking force the issue. granted j.b is godlike as is j.236D, 5d and 623a. but two of those has pretty bad recovery if missed. I mean carl has a death combo off 2a, kune has 5000. It just baffles me how you could hate on jin, he is just solid that's all. I spent a shitload of time in this character and it pisses me off when someone thinks I won just because of jin. I decided on maining jin before I even touched the game.

anyone care to elaborate on this phenomenom of jin bitching?

The people you played suck.

[VickyC REmix]

He's not broken just all around a great character, if anything most scrubs hate him cause they either cant deal with the his ice car and mashing C moves. As for good Jin's I guess it simply has to do with them not putting any effort into a real match XD

[ocdscale]

anyone care to elaborate on this phenomenom of jin bitching?

People hate on Jin because no one likes being frozen.

Also, the biggest flaw in weaker players is that they don't block enough. This makes characters like Jin and Nu appear unstoppable because the hits (freezes) never stop coming.

[VickyC REmix]

i agree

[Brave Hippo]

Think of it this way. Jin doesnt get NEARLY as much hate as Carl does.

[purify]

I LOST. I'm MAD. I need to blame something. Online or off, people do it. Instead of trying to figure out how to beat what they lost to and focus the blame on themselves not beating x thing, they decide to just shove it all off on something else. It's the core of being a scrub.

[Coren]

People hate on Jin because no one likes being frozen.

Also, the biggest flaw in weaker players is that they don't block enough. This makes characters like Jin and Nu appear unstoppable because the hits (freezes) never stop coming.

#R slayer would make their heads asplode then.