[UNIEL] Hyde

[iora]

in relation to frame adv on j.236a/b and 214a > delayed 4a 

 

[1:34:14 AM] justin : so for j.236a and j.236b
[1:34:37 AM] justin : i set training dummy (as hyde, vs hyde) to hold 1 for 100 frames, then mash 1a for 200 frames
[1:35:20 AM] justin : if i tk the j.236b, then land and mash most things, he blocks the entire time, not even a frame trap to get a ch, just solid block the whole way
[1:35:56 AM] justin : if i make him block it crouching at the highest height it would still contact him, i could get a counterhit out of his 1a mash with 5c
[1:37:01 AM] justin : mistake: at highest height, i would counterhit his 1a mash with a 5b, but i would get hit out of 5c
[1:45:05 AM] justin : same dummy conditions, for 214a > staggered 4a (no crossup, just landing on the same side you started)
[1:45:27 AM] justin : if you just rifle them off quickly, you will land and be minus enough to get tagged a 2a
[1:45:49 AM] justin : if you just delay in most cases, you will land and be able to block, but your minus
[1:46:19 AM] justin : and i managed to delay and hit low enough to counter hit him out of 2a with my own land 2a mash 3 times, so i think you can get it to like +1 or so if your crazy good about it
[1:46:49 AM] justin : dont have equipment to go frame by frame, but hopefully thats practical and helpful enough

 

posting this here in case its useful for anyone.

 

feel free (read: i hope someone does) to double check this and see what your findings are. im not a training mode monster so this is best i could do. reading older posts seems like you guys can get the rekka delay on block to be more plus than i could, so i expect that to be wrong. i was doing it for about 30 minutes and only got to ch him 3 times. maybe its just not in my skill set ^^

[Zouf]

I'll do some more frame testing when I get some free time (probably around friday and this week end)

 

Looks like i messed up some of them earlier (5A is -9 on guard and not -8)

[ipirate9]

So what are Hyde best normals to reverse beat into? I've been trying to do things with 5A but if its -9 on block thats p bad. 2A is an obvious option but has anyone found any good reverse beat strings that bait CH or something?

 

[Zouf]

I guess 2c/3c into 6b van have its use if delayed correctly. 3b is Aldo an option. Tbh i'm not too good yet with reverse beats. They kinda screw with my brain.

[D.R.F.]

5c-2a is a pressure reset when spaced correctly, but other than that I just frame trap to orbiter-detonate.

[VR-Raiden]

wish there was a board per char instead of a thread per char lol. then all the vids/combo discussions/questions get jumbled into 1 thread >.>

Eventually the mizuumi wiki will gather most good info. I've been working stuff into it slowly. So far most of the known frame data is in as well as basic move descriptions. If anyone wants something added or changed I can get to it in time. Or you can request an account too and help.

Re: blockstrings

236A/B>236A seems like a totally safe way to end, just puts distance between you and opponent.

C normals > 2A whiff appears to be -1 or close to it from a jump height test.

236A/B>236B is air tight on normal block and gets you close, but unsafe if not cancelled. Cancel to 236C immediately for airtight to pressure, slight delay cancel to 236C to leave a gap small enough to catch buttons/moving. You can also 236B CS on block to start pressure.

Reverse beat to 5A blocked > 236A/B creates a small gap to catch buttons/movement (Thanks to Grover for telling me of it). 236B better from farthest blocked 5A, 236A from closer. Max range 3B blocked>236B works same way.

Also, there's a Hyde Skype chat now, if anyone wants to join you can PM me your Skype. There are a couple in already. Only join if you want to discuss Hyde gameplay please, these always go offtopic at times (and no way to enforce any rules) but trying to keep it useful and not annoying or irrelevant.

[Tatsuma]

If spaced properly, getting in a charged 5C > 2A whiff is pretty good since it's plus but.

[D.R.F.]

Sometimes 22a can be used to catch small buttonsafter orbiter> lotus

[ipirate9]

5c-2a is a pressure reset when spaced correctly, but other than that I just frame trap to orbiter-detonate.

 

What are you using as frame trap options?

[D.R.F.]

What are you using as frame trap options?

5C is a good option into reverse gatlings, assuming you havent used your crouching buttons yet. If they really respect you can stagger pressure with 2A, but be very careful since its -3. Doesnt help you cannot late gatling-.-. But thats all I have for now, actually in the lab looking for new stuff atm

[ipirate9]

5C is a good option into reverse gatlings, assuming you havent used your crouching buttons yet. If they really respect you can stagger pressure with 2A, but be very careful since its -3. Doesnt help you cannot late gatling-.-. But thats all I have for now, actually in the lab looking for new stuff atm

 

Ya I get respected hard -.- oh well, week 1 grinding 

[VR-Raiden]

Here's the safejump I was talking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4lVQysZvYk

Part 2 of this setup: If they start delay teching every time after 2C, there is an OS to punish that. You can do immediate (dash if necessary) 2A~623A. If they delay their tech at all, you will hit OTG and combo to 623A, which leads to 214C if you have meter. If they do immediately tech, 2A recovers fast and you can continue pressure. So if they stay down to avoid the safejump, they risk taking extra damage into more oki, although not as strong. It seems hard to react to the jump cancel to delay tech or not.

[HKSpadez]

hey guys. i keep missing 236B -> 236A -> 66C

the 66C part. i keep missing it randomly. is it best to do it ASAP after 236A or wait a little? or wait a lot..? whats the timing for that.

 

or is there an alternative combo i should be going for?

 

thanks for any help guys.

 

also whats the best follow up for hitting them with 3C when they in the air?

[dere]

Delay it a little bit, 66C needs to hit when they are about your height level.

[ipirate9]

I'm having trouble with the 236B~236A part in this combo: 5B> 2C> 5[C]> 214B*3> 3B> 236B~236A> DC> 214B*3. The 236A followup will always whiff   Is it a spacing thing or a timing thing? I've even tried to incorporate a 2C after the 3B since the 2C will bring you closer during the combo but it still whiffs. Any ideas?

[Tatsuma]

I'm having trouble with the 236B~236A part in this combo: 5B> 2C> 5[C]> 214B*3> 3B> 236B~236A> DC> 214B*3. The 236A followup will always whiff Is it a spacing thing or a timing thing? I've even tried to incorporate a 2C after the 3B since the 2C will bring you closer during the combo but it still whiffs. Any ideas?

That sometimes happens if you don't let the 236B travel far enough depending on the combo. Might just be a timing thing. Try delaying the 236A.

hey guys. i keep missing 236B -> 236A -> 66C

the 66C part. i keep missing it randomly. is it best to do it ASAP after 236A or wait a little? or wait a lot..? whats the timing for that.

or is there an alternative combo i should be going for?

thanks for any help guys.

also whats the best follow up for hitting them with 3C when they in the air?

Depends. Is 3C your starter? If so, you could do charged jC I think, then go into the basic rekka stuff.

[Zeromus_X]

3C (CH) > 5B > 5[C] > 214B~4B~4B(delayed) > 3B > 5[C] > 214B~4B~4B does 3,050. If you get into the corner you can do 3B > 2C > ORBITAHH > etc. instead.

 

If you get a really high non-CH 3C air hit (i.e. merkava being annoying at the top of the screen), seems harder to confirm. Lower air hits can still confirm into 5B > 5C or go into a blockstring if they landed and block your anti-air. Thankfully in this game you can't do anything when you air tech until you land on the ground so even if you fail to confirm into a combo off a 3C hit you can still run in and pressure.

 

Edit: Here is a good video with a 3C confirm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgIrhaXcSJ4#t=13m19s

 

Looks like 3C > rebeat 2A is a better way to confirm. Near the corner you can do 3C > 2A(whiff) > 5B > 5[C] > 214B~4B~4B (delayed)> 5C > FF > 236B~236A > dash 3C > 214B~4B~4B for 3,354.

[VR-Raiden]

Spent some time today learning combos that end in jump cancelable ground tech 2C, thus allowing for the safejump or other good oki.

What I have so far:

http://pastebin.com/vvpAjir4

If anyone finds any ways to optimize them further or combos from other starters feel free to share.

[HKSpadez]

@zeromus_x YO! i think i played u on psn yesterday. do u play the blue zombie colored hyde? My psn is trollskiii; i play gordeau online

 

ur hyde is so good man. saved the replay to refer to it later. any tips on landing

 

236B > 236A > 66C online?

 

i can get it ok offline but online is a lost cause for me.

 

or is there an easier way to follow up 236B>236A thats easier on the execution?

[Fatalis]

There's an option to turn on frame delay (from 1-8 frames of delay) in training, so you can practice doing the combo with some lag to get used to doing it online.

 

If you can do it offline, then it's just getting acclimated to the lag online.

[Zeromus_X]

@zeromus_x YO! i think i played u on psn yesterday. do u play the blue zombie colored hyde? My psn is trollskiii; i play gordeau online

 

ur hyde is so good man. saved the replay to refer to it later. any tips on landing

 

236B > 236A > 66C online?

 

i can get it ok offline but online is a lost cause for me.

 

or is there an easier way to follow up 236B>236A thats easier on the execution?

 

You're too kind; I'm terribad lol. But yeah it's just a matter of delaying the 66C to get them at the right height. For online, you kind of just have to get a feel on it depending on the connection sadly. Didn't know about the frame delay option in training mode though, will have to mess with that.

[Esjihn]

Yea I played you too Zeromus. My name is GenMA on PSN

[grove03]

 

 

Also, there's a Hyde Skype chat now, if anyone wants to join you can PM me your Skype. There are a couple in already. Only join if you want to discuss Hyde gameplay please, these always go offtopic at times (and no way to enforce any rules) but trying to keep it useful and not annoying or irrelevant.

 

If you want more help with hyde, i really recommend getting into the skype chat, we do most of our discussion there, along with interesting finds that we may forget to add in this thread due to it being one huge thread. if you want in, send VR-Raiden a pm!

[Zouf]

Played against Hilda.

Felt so powerless against her. This was both frustrating and a good lesson : Hyde is definitely a a shitty character when it comes to zoning and approaching.

 

His fireball has so many recovery frames and a really terrible vertical hitbox. 22B is just no good, startup is like 30f or more.

 

If the Hilda plays safe, full screen laser beam shit, you are pretty much doomed, unless she decides to take some risk and goes for attack.

 

It's been a while I felt so annoyed in a match up. I'll probably sub a character that can deal with those kind of play. I don't see how Hyde can win this MU.

[Tenryuga]

Lol Hyde isn't shitty at zoning. Watch some more play of the good japanese Hyde's; He is one of the better characters at it. He also does not have problems approaching. No character with good ranged normals and full screen projectiles has a hard time getting in especially if you can run in with those projectiles. Could have sword he could do that with A version orbiter.

I will say that Hilda rapes Hyde in zoning which is natural. He's a jack of all trades character. But unlike some characters in the cast he is equipped with things she needs to respect in the spacing war IMO.

She will either block or get hit by well placed orbiters and pillars causing a knockdown for you to run in and capitalize on. We all know Hilda is trash at close range so Hyde can keep the pressure on her there.

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