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Damned Wolfe

[CS2] Ragna General Discussion

How do you Play Ragna?  

185 members have voted

  1. 1. How do you Play Ragna?

    • Straight up Offense!
    • Bait in to Punish!
    • Defensive Punish!
    • Spam Hell's Fang and Inferno Divider moves!


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As far as I'm aware, D Inferno Divider tends to work in pretty much every combo situation unless you want to do a grounded Inferno Divider into Yoko Fukitobashi and combo from it. The j.D in most air combos seems to position you quite nicely for a D Inferno Divider.

Also, I'm probably going to start work on the Ragna the Bloodedge entry on Dustloop Wiki soon, provided no one minds that it's being written by someone who hasn't played the game yet. XD

Edit: http://dustloop.wikia.com/wiki/Ragna_the_Bloodedge

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I don't have any objection to you working on the Ragna wiki, but please keep one thing in mind. Don't be so quick to accept things you hear... especially if it's in a language you aren't fluent in. I noticed you added the 60% prorate on Ragna 5A, which the japanese have posted on their wiki... but some of the things on their wiki are only speculation, so keep that in mind. The values they had for HP of Ragna/Tager, as well as the exact order of higher/lower HP totals were both wrong. Having said that, I don't believe the 60% prorate on Ragna is wrong. It seems to correspond with what I've checked so far... but I've done relatively little research on combo proration/scaling (Only about 30 minutes worth). Our goal shouldn't be to copy the japanese wiki, but to surpass it. Lets make them come to OUR wiki / copy us. To that end, I'll continue to supply new information, feel free to put up any of it that you find useful. Also, for any Ragna players who haven't checked it already, I'm posting my notes in the "Independant Research Thread", but a lot of it will have to do with Ragna (He is my main character for now).

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Final Ultima, I took a look at the wiki and made a few edits. Looks pretty good otherwise.

Edits include: Noting which specials have lifedrain

Changed comment from "known as "D Loop" (tentative)"

to

"known as D Loop to some Japanese players"

-- USA doesn't call it that... yet.

Also, I didn't change anything related to this, but it might be a good idea to consider it:

I noticed you (or someone?) lists combos with JC, meaning "Jump Cancel". It's extremely confusing and very similar to what is already being listed "J.C" (Jump C). Also it means you have to write out a period for every jumping attack (extra step adds up over the 1000 of combos we are going to talk about in our blazblue life).

There's a way to drastically reduce the amount of junk (commas, etc.) in your combo notation. Lets look at a combo... this is how it would be listed using your current notation method:

5B, 5C, 2C, Hell's Fang, RC, dash slightly, 6D, j.D, land, 5B, 6A, JC or HJC, j.C, j.D, JC, j.C, j.D, D Inferno Divider -> followups.

Instead, you could write it out like this:

5BC2C, 214A, RC, d.6DjD, d.5B6A, jCD, djCD, 623D236C214C

Depending on your personal preference, you don't necessarily have to seperate specials from normals. You could write it as 5BC2C214A, but personally I find it's a little more readable if you seperate them.

I know there probably isn't a standard in place yet, but my personal recommendation is this:

jump = lower case j

double jump = lower case dj

dash/dashing = lower case d followed by period (d.)

A B C D = upper case letters reserved for the attack buttons

Special moves: write out the motion instead of the move name. Especially for someone who is going to the wiki to learn combos, it will be difficult to read if they haven't learned all move names yet. There are moves in Guilty Gear which I never bothered to learn, even though I played four GG games now (Like Axl's unblockable... the important part to remember is it's unblockable, hehehe).

"Land" = only if it isn't implied. For example jD, jD could be vague because someone might not know if it is a link in the air, or jD, land, jD again -- but if the combo is jD, 5B... it's pretty obvious that you have to land to perform a ground normal. So if the combo is an air link combo, jD, jD is fine. If it involves landing and rejumping, jD, land, jD -> other stuff.

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Well, the reason I didn't add which moves had health drain was because in the Drive section I put a general entry for Soul Eater with "any direction/command + D", but your comments are fair. The combo section was literally just a copy/paste of my ongoing translation from the Japanese wiki entry for Ragna. I don't intend to just copy everything they say, I'm just using it purely as a basis to get the ball rolling, that's all. As for the notation, I'll shorten it up. I liked having the attack names in though, they were all already listed immediately above the combos anyway, and long strings of numbers and letters give me a headache.

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Well, the reason I didn't add which moves had health drain was because in the Drive section I put a general entry for Soul Eater with "any direction/command + D"

Which is why I didn't modify the drive moves section at all. I was referring to the special moves and supers with lifedrain property.

The combo section was literally just a copy/paste of my ongoing translation from the Japanese wiki entry for Ragna. I don't intend to just copy everything they say, I'm just using it purely as a basis to get the ball rolling, that's all.

Copying combos is not as big of a deal. If a combo works, it works. I was more concerned about copying speculation. I'm saying be careful exactly which info you grab, since some of it won't be accurate. In the case of the 60% prorate it isn't necessarily wrong (matches up with my preliminary research), but I can't be certain.

As for the notation, I'll shorten it up. I liked having the attack names in though, they were all already listed immediately above the combos anyway, and long strings of numbers and letters give me a headache.

You already began to abbreviate it in some places and/or swap out for numbers (like the otg grab... does it really need to be written out as mada owari janee zo each time it appears in a combo? I noticed you wrote it as 22c).

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Well regarding the proration, I held off on adding it while there was a question mark next to the figure, but after said question mark was removed, I figured I'd put it down for now given that there's not much else worth saying about 5A/2A/j.A that isn't already obvious. As for the combo notation, I compromised. I changed the attack names to numbers, but with the spacing intact so it's not just a long string. How's that?

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Personally, I find this: 5B, 5C, 2C, Hell's Fang, RC, dash slightly, 6D, j.D, land, 5B, 6A, JC or HJC, j.C, j.D, JC, j.C, j.D, D Inferno Divider -> followups. way easier to read than this: 5BC2C, 214A, RC, d.6DjD, d.5B6A, jCD, djCD, 623D236C214C I think it makes more sense to have combos written out the longer way (which seriously, doesn't take up THAT much time) than have to wince at 623D236C214C to figure out that it's inferno divider with the C followups. This is getting off-topic though. Maybe there should be a thread on official notation? Even a sticky, perhaps!

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well, I'll admit looking at inferno divider + followups is kind of an eyesore... no matter how it's written (if you write out all the followup names then it's really lol). Maybe the followups should just be implied? In my own personal notes while I was collecting data, I just wrote + if I was referring to the followups. HF+ = Hell's Fang Oh yeah, that's the other thing... pretty much all of Ragna's moves can be abbreviated with two letter acronyms. There isn't any overlap except for the two DPs. Maybe you could distinguish between them with C-ID and D-ID... or something to that effect (have to be careful not to get it confused with the buttons C and D). One other thing I forgot to mention on notation... this probably doesn't much for Ragna, but for other characters whose normals hit multiple times, sometimes there is a need to specify how many times it hits. I found the best way to go is listing a # afterwards, like 5B(2), BUT . . . if no number is written, then the full # of hits is implied. Last, the reason I brought this up on the forums instead of simply changing it myself is... the wiki is a community project. So I won't go against other peoples desire, as long as it's what people want. Just threw out my thoughts since I have spent a lot of time writing down combos. Between Melty Blood and Guilty Gear, I can't think of how many combos I've written out, mostly because of IRC. For those who don't know, there are IRC channels on EFnet for Blazblue, melty blood, guilty gear, and many other games. #BlazBlue, #MBAC, #ggxx are the ones I hang out in mostly. People talk about BlazBlue in all three of those channels, as well as #capcom (lol what?), so stop on by.

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More on topic question, since I won't be able to play at all this week and test it for myself.. Does Blood Kain have any invincibility on start up? If so, it could possibly be a good anti-burst strat, depending on how fast Ragna recovers from it, to activate when an opponent bursts, leaving them free falling into a giant Blood Kain combo with the defensive drop.

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More on topic question, since I won't be able to play at all this week and test it for myself..

Does Blood Kain have any invincibility on start up? If so, it could possibly be a good anti-burst strat, depending on how fast Ragna recovers from it, to activate when an opponent bursts, leaving them free falling into a giant Blood Kain combo with the defensive drop.

IIRC it's invulnerable while it activates. I might be wrong though.

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More on topic question, since I won't be able to play at all this week and test it for myself..

Does Blood Kain have any invincibility on start up? If so, it could possibly be a good anti-burst strat, depending on how fast Ragna recovers from it, to activate when an opponent bursts, leaving them free falling into a giant Blood Kain combo with the defensive drop.

Yeah you can go through bursts with Blood Kain, the recovery is reasonably fast enough to punish. I noticed trying to DP through bursts with Inferno Divider gives mixed results. It's invincible enough to go through bursts... but doesn't have enough active frames to consistantly hit them. Blood Kain is not a bad choice. YnK can go through bursts too, but the timing is much stricter.

-------------------------------------

By the way, I updated my research thread with the damage for Blood Kain normals/specials.

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Yeah you can go through bursts with Blood Kain, the recovery is reasonably fast enough to punish. I noticed trying to DP through bursts with Inferno Divider gives mixed results. It's invincible enough to go through bursts... but doesn't have enough active frames to consistantly hit them. Blood Kain is not a bad choice. YnK can go through bursts too, but the timing is much stricter.

-------------------------------------

By the way, I updated my research thread with the damage for Blood Kain normals/specials.

that would suck your burst gets dodged then only to be hit with one of the games hardest hitting moves, not to mention that your def drops so wouldnt YnK go from doing 5K hp to 7K-ish hp and giving him that much back(i remember you said that the dmg to hp regain is a 1:1 ratio). epic fail on your opponents side epic win on Ragnas end, and finally after taking a hit from that:

you are already dead

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(i remember you said that the dmg to hp regain is a 1:1 ratio).

Actually someone else said that. I don't have any conclusive information about the lifedrain ratio of Ragna's moves.

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well i cant recall who said that the YnK dmg:heal ratio is 1:1. but after seeing it hit so many times it definitely looks as though it heals as much as it dmgs, but still do you really want to be on the receiving end of a YnK after bursting?

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hey guys i was watching a ragna video and i noticed if you do 22c in a combo once, you can do again in a combo any time much like noel's 6C 22C loop,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLfKKXe5NRI around 1:33 he does it, 3C, 22C, and then we he does 5D during same combo he chains it immediately into 22C, looks pretty cool but don't know the applications, tho it does show more potential for cool stuff i guess?

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I'm guessing that it works on opponents on the ground regardless of if it's off a knock down or just pre-bounce. I mean, look how low Bang was after the second hit of that 5D. He was on the ground, he just didn't get the chance to bounce. I doubt we'll see much of it in future though given that the pushback on 5D probably only makes that combo possible in the corner.

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I'm guessing that it works on opponents on the ground regardless of if it's off a knock down or just pre-bounce. I mean, look how low Bang was after the second hit of that 5D. He was on the ground, he just didn't get the chance to bounce. I doubt we'll see much of it in future though given that the pushback on 5D probably only makes that combo possible in the corner.

well with noel if you successfully pull off a 22C during a combo you can use it any time in the same combo again, hence making her new 6C 22C loop. I would imagine ragna is the same way as seen in that video. my question was is how can this be applied, not is it possible, because it obviously is in that video.

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i wouldn't be surprised if the pushback makes the combo black at some point in time <_< in theory though since 22C supposedly has no proration u can kill someone with it if it works :P

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I was joking. I'm sure it'd pushback would kill that combo in no more than 3 reps, if 22C even leaves enough stagger to relink a 3C. And either way, combos in BB scale to the point that they start to do 0 damage over time.

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You can't ever connect 22C directly to 3C as a legit combo (not even 1 rep). If you're joking around when you type a combo, please state it in your post... otherwise a lot of people are going to take it seriously. (There are a lot of people who can't play BlazBlue yet(or as often as they want), so they are reading up while they wait). I spent a little while testing the options off of 22C and it seems like the only thing that is guaranteed off of it is 5B. There isn't even enough time to go directly into 5C, and I couldn't seem to connect dash 2A and have it be valid. I think in the future we are going to start seeing [22C -> Rapid Cancel] combos (Yes you can RC it). The reason is, after a certain amount of hits, if you try to do 22C, 5BC -> Hell's Fang -- the Hell's Fang doesn't combo (pushback etc.). When you RC it, you end up with a lot of time to do whatever you want (like dash up 6DjD into whatever).

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