[CS2] Ragna General Discussion

[Ragnarok]

Normal Ragna is my way to play since i started. Looked around others colors and some are good (Joker ragna makes me smile and i sometimes use it), but for once i got a main color that kick ass, you bet i'll use it!

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

RC'd HF on block is a hell of a lot better than not RC-ing it and getting punished 'cuz they IB'd.

I don't understand why I don't see this happen that much in match play, though. I see lots of blocked HF and it rarely gets punished.

[Hatred Edge]

Spacing maybe?

[Final Ultima]

A lot of players don't Perfect Guard it as much as they ought to, and the 4 frames they get on regular block isn't enough for most characters to punish reliably.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Spacing maybe?

That's what I'm thinking. Yeah, the move is -4 on normal guard, but that's assuming you block it point-blank, and the move is active for a long time.

[Final Ultima]

It doesn't work that way. Once Hell's Fang connects, all active frames cease, just like Order-Sol's Rock It.

[CrimsonDisaster]

All of our good players here IB Hell's Fang and punish (which can pretty much be done on reaction, shrug), or they IB the hit before and DP the Hell's Fang. It really isn't that hard and it forces Ragna to do a lot of wacky/weird pressure strings.

[Quomple]

hmmm

so im curious as to the colors everyone will be repping when they get to play Ragna on console

I normally only use the default colors for every character but all black Ragna looks pretty awesome.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

It doesn't work that way. Once Hell's Fang connects, all active frames cease, just like Order-Sol's Rock It.

That's not what I'm talking about. I mean, what you're saying is normal for pretty much all moves, once the move connects, any remaining active frames become recovery. Rock It is actually the exception to the rule, as it automatically goes into a set recovery when it connects, regardless of what point in the active window it connects. Rock It is always +3 on normal guard in GG. Compared to Hell's Fang, which has a 13 frame active window, you could potentially be at +8 if you connected with Hell's Fang on the absolute last active frame.

All of our good players here IB Hell's Fang and punish (which can pretty much be done on reaction, shrug), or they IB the hit before and DP the Hell's Fang. It really isn't that hard and it forces Ragna to do a lot of wacky/weird pressure strings.

Ok, this makes more sense. But how many characters have a reliable DP to beat out Hell's Fang? I would venture Ragna/Jin/Litchi as being the default.

[Final Ultima]

Rock It is actually the exception to the rule, as it automatically goes into a set recovery when it connects, regardless of what point in the active window it connects.

That's what I was trying to say, Hell's Fang does the same.

When I said the active frames cease, I didn't mean that they cease becoming active, I meant that they cease... being there at all.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Not from what I've seen. Hell's Fang looks more like Slayer's Mappa where if you block it point-blank (ie before he fully extends his fist) he goes through the whole animation of the move still.

[Veteru]

Titanium Beast, you're wrong.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Ok, if you say so. You could actually explain instead of just saying "YOU'RE WRONG" like an asshole. I mean, either way, the frame data doesn't make sense for the move. If he automatically goes into recovery when he blocks it and recovery is 33 frames, the move is level 4 and does 18F of blockstun, then it should be -15, not -4. If it works the other way, it would be even more negative. Something's missing here.

[Final Ultima]

The frame data notes seem to miss out a lot of details, to be honest. It's got a lot more block stun than a regular Level 4. But regarding the active frame thing, if it wasn't the case, you wouldn't be able to do 2D into 5C, 214A, 5A, 5B, (6A), 5D, 214A -> 214D or 22C and combos of that ilk because with the active frames tacked on, the opponent would be able to tech out (at close range, probably before Ragna even recovered from the 214A, let alone started throwing out the 5A).

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

The online frame data is definitely missing a lot of info that's in the book. They got the part where HF gives 34F of hitstun, but forgot the part where it gives 29F of blockstun. There is also the note mentioning that it does go straight into recovery on hit or block, so I was wrong on that part. Ah well, lesson learned.

[Veteru]

I always use the original mook scans as my info source, combined with my own personal testing and observation. There are a variety of issues with the "translations" listed on tianyuan's website. Also... according to popular IRC rumor/theory, some (not all) of the character note translations were stolen from another source.

[Veteru]

Ok, if you say so. You could actually explain instead of just saying "YOU'RE WRONG" like an asshole.

About that... Final Ultima had already explained it, so I didn't see any purpose in retyping his message. Of course, you chose to tell him he's wrong like an... unfriendly person.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

About that... Final Ultima had already explained it, so I didn't see any purpose in retyping his message. Of course, you chose to tell him he's wrong like an... unfriendly person.

Shrug whatever I figured it out once I got a chance to look at my guide. Posting from work can be an inconvenience sometimes.

Of course, you could have gone into a more detailed explanation based on your own info. After all, there's no way you could have known that I had the guide to look at, and knowing the info on tian's site is wrong, it would have been easy to say "hey, this is what is says in the guide." Something like that would have been more constructive and I would have been more prone to think "guess I was wrong, that guy is really helpful", instead of "wow, that guy is a jackass".

But I digress, no more off-topic from me.

[Prototype909]

Question, at 00:27-00:32 in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlByDjRYdSI) Ragna performs what seems like a j.C -> j.D -> j.D -> INFERNO DIVIIIDDAAAA -> Uppercut -> Heeldrop air combo.

Does the j.D come out fast enough so that it can be repeated twice? Or do you have to cancel out of the first j.D in order to repeat it -> link into Inferno Divider.

[Tsak]

yep you can do j.c, j.d, jc j.c, j.d inferno divider as well it works the same way as sol's j.d does in aircombos (in slash and Accent core atleast) Ragna's j.d in BK can sorta work like sol's j.d in XX and reload making it basically a dustloop haha

[Prototype909]

yep

you can do j.c, j.d, jc j.c, j.d inferno divider as well

it works the same way as sol's j.d does in aircombos (in slash and Accent core atleast)

Ragna's j.d in BK can sorta work like sol's j.d in XX and reload making it basically a dustloop haha

But the j.D itself can come out twice consecutively? That's cool. How strict are the timings on Ragna's follow ups (In general). Can you safely delay them? Or do they have to come out instantly after the initial move.

Inferno Dividers follow ups seem like they need to be executed instantly after.

[Tsak]

no you cannot do j.d 4 times in the air as it doesn't link into itself so its not fast enough to come out that many times j.c -> j.d j.c can gatling into j.d not sure if its the other way around (i don't think it is) you can do j.d it twice in the air (by jump cancelling or i think you might be able to do it twice before you land) and in BK it seems it hits so hard you have time to land and continue the combo and it does stupid damage/life steal in BK haha well the follow ups from inferno divider actually can have a fair amount of delay when your doing them the longer the combo is though the short that delay time will be

[iLLusion]

Hmm, with gauntlet hades at the end of a combo, is there anything i can do for a follow up?

[Prototype909]

Hmm, with gauntlet hades at the end of a combo, is there anything i can do for a follow up?

214D - Raggie kicks upwards after Gauntlet Hades. Can be comboed

into 5B, 6A when delayed.

Maybe you could rush over and 22C them?

[Final Ultima]

Hmm, with gauntlet hades at the end of a combo, is there anything i can do for a follow up?

That depends. If you don't launch the opponent beforehand, there's not really a whole lot you can do. You need to Rapid Cancel to follow it up, really.

If you do launch the opponent beforehand, however, in several instances if you just delay the Keri Age, you'll be able follow it up, generally with one of the following combos.

5B, 623D -> 236C -> 214C

5C, hj.B, j.C (JC), j.C, j.D, 623D -> 236C -> 214C

5B, 6A, hj.C, j.D (JC), j.D, 623D -> 236C -> 214C

Which one you'll be able to do is sort of situation specific, but it mostly depends on how long the combo is and how high the opponent was when you hit with the Keri Age. Starting from a back throw is ideal, but 6C on a crouching opponent or 6A on Counter Hit should do the job nicely on a majority of the cast.