Burningbatsu Report post Posted December 1, 2009 Oh flyingVe nice to see you on dustloop man lol and thx for the reply. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Final Ultima Report post Posted December 1, 2009 So blood Kain is now useful during combos? this is something i'm glad about. My question is how much of an output can we get out of it by ending something with like BE > 5D > devoured by darkness?Well, it's still not optimal while we still have to worry about life drain, especially with the nerf to how much he gets back, but I'm just saying there's no disadvantage to comboing in and out of Blood Kain as opposed to starting a combo in Blood Kain now. It's only real use at the moment is for outright killing someone without a Burst, or I suppose if your health is so low that the life drain won't matter anyway. I love Blood Kain and all, but the only reason I even post Blood Kain combos at all is for combo video fluff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyingVe Report post Posted December 1, 2009 Does anybody know if you can can combo 3C after BE (BE>3C)? I saw a video in which a ragna player successfully pulled it off, but the opponent had already been tripped earlier in the string. I know this probably only works in specific setups but the idea that ragna can end all Belial edge strings in 22C (via the 3C) is really enticing. Edit: I found the vid and the setup is screwier than I remembered. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbdYnl5sHJ0 at about 7:35. The combo is: crouching opponent - (CH)6D>jD>5B>3C>5D(DC)>6A>jC>jD>jD>BE>3C>5D>22C So the a better version of my question is, under what circumstances can BE be followed up with 3C? Do they need to be crouching or do you need to trip them earlier (thus rendering the later 3C useless)? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Final Ultima Report post Posted December 1, 2009 3C on an airborne opponent doesn't count, as it doesn't have knock down property. They'll tech out as soon as they touch the ground. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyingVe Report post Posted December 1, 2009 3C on an airborne opponent doesn't count, as it doesn't have knock down property. They'll tech out as soon as they touch the ground. Oh, I didn't realize that. I thought I had seen something awesome, but I guess not. Sorry for the dumb question. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Final Ultima Report post Posted December 1, 2009 Well, to be fair, it's not without its uses. If you've already done a 3C or 2D during the combo, you could always do a quick dash 3C, 22C or dash 3C, 5D, 22C after Belial Edge just to add to the damage. Every little helps. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Burningbatsu Report post Posted December 2, 2009 Well, it's still not optimal while we still have to worry about life drain, especially with the nerf to how much he gets back, but I'm just saying there's no disadvantage to comboing in and out of Blood Kain as opposed to starting a combo in Blood Kain now. It's only real use at the moment is for outright killing someone without a Burst, or I suppose if your health is so low that the life drain won't matter anyway. I love Blood Kain and all, but the only reason I even post Blood Kain combos at all is for combo video fluff. Ah ok well every little bit of blood kain combos help imo. I like Blood Kain and i hope it becomes more useful to ragna in CS. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Final Ultima Report post Posted December 2, 2009 Ok, so I was just checking out a Japanese BlazBlue wiki looking for any updates on combos for Ragna when I came across something that may entirely justify 22C's damage being halved, at least in my eyes. 3C, 22C, dash 5B, 5D (DC), 6A (HJC), j.C, j.D (JC), j.D, 214C, dash 5D, 22C If you really can do dash 5B after 22C, that opens up a whole new world for Ragna's double 22C combos. According to that same wiki, Ragna's advantage after a 22C is now 10 frames. If I were to guess how much it had in Calamity Trigger, I'd say 9 frames because a regular 5B had enough time to go through its 8 frame start-up and then still hit, but not enough to add dash momentum to it. One frame... one frame could make a pretty big difference, if this is all true. Edit: Oh damn, I wonder if Fatal Counter adds untechable time to staggers too... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bloodcrave Report post Posted December 2, 2009 well the way i see it the only possible good fatal counter ragna can use is 2D and maybe DS if you're close enough Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Final Ultima Report post Posted December 2, 2009 Neither of those Fatal Counter, I believe. Dead Spike doesn't because I saw it hit with the regular "Counter" message in a match against Noel. 2D doesn't according to Spirit Juice here, although I don't know if he tested it in Blood Kain. Ragna's Fatal Counters might be a bit more sporadic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spirit Juice Report post Posted December 2, 2009 2C CH = Fatal Counter. This seems like it should be your punishment tool. 2C (CH) 6C -> DC 6A -> JC j.C j.D -> JC dj.D -> Belial Edge, land, ender of your choice. I ended it with 5D into HF + follow up. Tested on Tager. I believe it was 4k damage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Final Ultima Report post Posted December 2, 2009 Aha, that's ideal. Excellent news. Don't know if a Gauntlet Hades follow-up would prorate too much to be worthwhile now, but it's definitely worth considering. You could probably get some decent 22C combos off that too. If stagger time is considered in Fatal Counter bonus untechable time, it pretty much confirms that Ragna will be able to do massive 22C combos. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VR-Raiden Report post Posted December 2, 2009 I've been busy and haven't been keeping up on everything. What exactly is a fatal counter/what does it do? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Final Ultima Report post Posted December 2, 2009 It adds 2 frames of untechable time to all hits during the ensuing combo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyingVe Report post Posted December 2, 2009 Is the un-techable time off of 22C fixed at 10 frames? (I believe it was fixed in CT). If so a fatal 2C could possibly lead to some insane 22C combos since 12 frames would be more than enough for a dash 5B into more 3C>22C stuff. Also, 2C will make an amazing FC move since its relatively fast. Maybe even the go to punish for risky moves like DP's. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spirit Juice Report post Posted December 2, 2009 Aha, that's ideal. Excellent news. Don't know if a Gauntlet Hades follow-up would prorate too much to be worthwhile now, but it's definitely worth considering. You could probably get some decent 22C combos off that too. If stagger time is considered in Fatal Counter bonus untechable time, it pretty much confirms that Ragna will be able to do massive 22C combos. I didn't think of trying 2C CH into 3C combos, but I'm not sure if it'll work. I believe the reason people don't do GH after 6C anymore is because it may not allow for Belial Edge combos afterward. Not to mention that the crumple time on CH 2C is very little, so you won't have time to run up 3C if you're too far away. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Final Ultima Report post Posted December 2, 2009 I didn't think of trying 2C CH into 3C combos, but I'm not sure if it'll work. I believe the reason people don't do GH after 6C anymore is because it may not allow for Belial Edge combos afterward. Not to mention that the crumple time on CH 2C is very little, so you won't have time to run up 3C if you're too far away.Well, with Fatal Counter it's difficult to imagine it screwing up. Even without it I've not really seen a Belial Edge not connect if the combo was still prompt enough to make j.C, j.D (JC), j.C/j.D possible. Most of the times I've seen people tech out of Belial Edge, it was because the angle of approach was bad or something and they kick out of the opposite side. As for doing 3C after FC 2C. If you can't do it deep enough to just cancel into 22C, you could probably do FC 2C, 3C, 22C (whiff), dash 3C, 22C if you're close enough to still hit with 3C, or FC 2C, dash 5B, 3C, 22C (whiff), dash 3C, 22C if you aren't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bloodcrave Report post Posted December 2, 2009 i thought fatal counters are moves with the property of taking out guard primers in a counter hit state? maybe someone can list all of ragna's moves that can FC? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spirit Juice Report post Posted December 2, 2009 Nope. Some moves just have fatal counter properties; a move that breaks guard primers is not required. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TITANIUM BEAST!!! Report post Posted December 3, 2009 Thought I'd post a couple of things from Dec issue of Arcadia: 2C is the only move listed as Fatal Counter for Ragna. 6B combo is listed as follows: 6B-5C-6C -> DC, 5D -> DC, 6A -> HJC hj.C -> JC dj.C -> Belial, 5D -> HF -> Tsuika (3733 dmg) Also: 3C-5D -> DC, 6A -> HJC hj.C-D -> JC dj.C -> Belial, dash 5D -> 22C (4222 dmg) 5B-5C -> HF -> Tsuika does 1942 dmg now (was 1956 in CT, big deal I guess). 5B-5C -> CS, dash 6A -> HJC hj.C-D -> Belial, 5D -> HF -> Tsuika does 3996 dmg. Maybe more stuff later, I can't translate JP on the fly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Final Ultima Report post Posted December 3, 2009 How much more content is there to sift through? I may end up using it as a basis to create the "Ragna Continuum Shift Combos" thread. I've avoided doing it before now because I'm gonna make sure all the combos have damage figures and are arranged by practicality and ease of use this time round. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TITANIUM BEAST!!! Report post Posted December 3, 2009 Nothing much to look through, it's probably just general stuff like "Ragna does this" and "Belial Edge is useful!" A bit too early for really good info. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Final Ultima Report post Posted December 3, 2009 Ah, fair enough. Assuming those are all the combos there, the new thread will probably have to wait until I watch enough videos with new combos in decent enough quality to see the exact figures. That way I can add anything half-useful to the ones you've already listed to pad out the opening post. Goddamn, it'd be a lot more entertaining if most of the new stuff I saw wasn't just the old stuff with awful proration and Belial Edge to help the combos almost break even. Ah well, not many changes in the gameplan at least. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Burningbatsu Report post Posted December 3, 2009 If anyone has taken a look at the video of Ragna Vs bang i posted in this section. Anyone care to share thoughts about the combo near the end of the video that did about 4300? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bloodcrave Report post Posted December 3, 2009 for a combo that uses up 100% gauge i would say it's quite a waste i've been thinking of going into 5D>6A>HJC j.D> JC j.D>BE again after the 1st 22C RC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
