AC: Matchups

[fatewalker]

i've always veiwed Chipp as a really bad match up for Dizzy. i mean sure Dizzy dose some really high damage to Chipp. but his Noraml's like f.S, HS, and 2D beat cleanly almost every thing Dizzy has. plus he has a safe upper with FRC. if she dosn't play safe on him he will rip her to shreds. i really don't see how this match has changed from #R to AC...

[fatewalker]

ok! i've played these match ups many times and have someideas on how to play them. but i always like more input from my fellows Dizzy's here on D.loop. so advice for Dizzy Vs.... 1)I-no 2)ABA 3)Eddie 4)May I feel i can hadle Eddie pretty well with Diz. but the others i am not sure if i should switch to my 2nd(HOSS) or not.

[excelence]

dunno... never had a good player on my side with that character ;D ... and i need some input on opening the battle moves v Tes ... other than 236hs (once in a while it works) and 44(once in a while it fucked up) ... man got looped with Badlands and loss 50~70% of lifebar in less than 10 second ain't funny ... the match itself wasn't really a problem but it's one tough match imo with only 50~30% life bar and Aggro Tes ;D

[fatewalker]

if testament likes to open up with 6K do 5K IceSpike to get him to stop.

[Nehle]

Eh, I usually open with 5k or IAD back, depending on what I think he'll do. Also, don't play defensively against Testa, you have solid priority over most of his offensive stuff (save for HS Exe, far slash, a well-timed 2H, and Gravedigger, which you should throw on block, nothing else.). It's a whole lot better to force him on the defense and have summons disarm his traps.

[fatewalker]

in my experance against FB Grave Digger almost any normal will hit him out of it. you get a nice CH 2S combo off it too.

[Nehle]

Yea, if you can CH GD on reaction, sure. But if you're forced to block it, and he's close to the ground when he does it, the only safe punish you have is throw.

[excelence]

Eh, I usually open with 5k or IAD back, depending on what I think he'll do.

Also, don't play defensively against Testa, you have solid priority over most of his offensive stuff (save for HS Exe, far slash, a well-timed 2H, and Gravedigger, which you should throw on block, nothing else.). It's a whole lot better to force him on the defense and have summons disarm his traps.

i used to iad backward a lot v Tes but latelly i fucked up versus his 6hs on match start i just can't believe it, that thing comes really fast ... and thx for 5k, i think this one would work v BL and fairly saves moves, if i missed v his 2hs ;D ... the match itself wasn't really a problem but it's painfully hard if i screw on the opening... musn't make any mistake on fucked start up or my Dizzy is dead gosh blocking his pressure and counter his Exe Beast need lots of works

[fatewalker]

so i was wondering what the players here a Dloop thought of the Eddie match up. so far i havn't had too much trouble with Eddie as long as i avoid getting into little Eddie pressure by running away, bloacking corectly in pressure and throwing his comand throw. from my experance Eddie cant really deal with Dizzy's rush down well. he has unblockables that deal decent damage but no where near dizzys damage. Dloops thoughts?

[excelence]

as long as he's far away and only got near whenever i score a knock down and rush down game... he's screwed (;^_^)> but once he pin me down with lil Eddie Setup... i praying to get 50% tension and do the reversal Imperial Ray before i was died to turn the table ;D 50:50 i said ;D not as hard as Faust/Axl

[bizarro]

Oh yeah, right, piece of cake... which eddie players have you played?? Eddie dominates Dizzy in all aspects. Choose from 2S, eddie S, 6H, 6P, all of them will own your air game. On the ground, your only hope for survival is to kill little eddie asap, which usually won't happen because Dizzy has NO pokes that will do this (unless the eddie you are playing against sucks and doesn't manage his little eddie well). Oftentimes I sacrafice 25% tension using icespike frc just to kill little eddie. Once he even touches you (even if you are blocking) and he has eddie out, you're pretty much dead. No viable options to escape his pressure (you could risk IB > backdash but you will probably fail and eat a low attack instead), which means pressure into unblockable into knockdown into puddle into dizzy into instant kill. I don't know how many times i've eaten 100% from my local eddie player just from 1 hit, and that doesn't even involve becoming dizzied!! Dizzy is the easiest character in the cast to become dizzy, and eddie's 6P while you're held = 90% guaranteed dizzy = no chance. And throwing him out of his command throw? I don't know how you manage that, everytime I've tried I eat the throw since his command throw range is farther than my throw range. Only option if you see it coming is to FD jump.

TIP: icespike that little eddie!!!!!!11111@@

TIP: if he catches you in puddle, burst before he can 6P > 6P > 6P = dizzied = instant kill

[fatewalker]

well first off i've notice maytimes that Dizzy's j.2S beats out most of Eddie anti airs. unless of course he dose it before your start you 2S. i that case a good air dash bubble will usally cause them to whiff. and no matter what character i play attempting to kill little eddie is not a good idea. it gives Zato a free combo. it's justlike attacking Dizzy's Fish. Unbloackables are not that difficult to block. you just have to jump and faultless to escap the whole High low part. throwing the cammand throw is risky becuase of the range but the wayto doit is a forward comand throw. it's much safer then back dashing since the Shadow S will uaslly catch you. and yes the Shaodw hold and 6P will almsot dizzy you every time. wiggle man! if you can learn to survive little Eddie pressure the match is yours. once Eddie is inthe corner i havn't see him be able to do anything against Dizzys pressure and throw game. before i actually played this match i thought Eddiewould rape Dizzy. it's not an easy match by far but i don't feel that she is at the disavantage.

[bizarro]

Her j.2S doesn't beat any of his anti airs from my experience. His little eddie S can reach you at superjump range. When you manage to escape and get him on the other side of the screen, his neutral summon little eddie advance is too good: you can't poke it (except icespike), you can rarely jump away (eddie S, and if you manage to get by that where will you land? he's now got both sides of the screen covered), you can't airdash towards him (eddie S), usually you will end up eating a hit or blocking it, which means a rushdown from eddie. Also, while you're stuck in his mid-pressure screen and he does his drill/eddie D unblockable, it's true that you can FD jump to avoid the unblockable, but will you be able to see it coming? if you're trying to expect it, then you most likely won't be blocking low, which means it'll be easy for him to break your guard into combo > puddle > unblockable > 6p6p6p > dizzy > IK. If you do somehow have the ability to see it coming most of the time (more power to you) and FD jump, you'll still end up wasting quite a bit of tension especially if he uses his FB drill. Also, no matter how much you wiggle you won't be able to escape his IK. The recovery from 6P isn't that much, he can go right into IK mode since he's standing, plus he's right next to you. I'm certain no matter how good you are at shaking you won't be able to avoid it. I'm not saying this match is impossible for Dizzy, but in my opinion this matchup is mostly in favor of eddie. Eddie also takes a lot of damage, so as long as you get that knockdown things will go your way. I wouldn't spend a lot of time in the air for this matchup, unless you're trying to escape his little eddie (good luck, you'll still get hit even if you superjump). Easier than axl, harder than faust.

[Teyah]

Just clearing up alot of that info: Eddie cannot reactionary AA a a timed AD j.2S by Dizzy, as both his AAs get CH during their long startup. j.2S has the range needed to break through his 6P's upperbody invul, and will activate before a 2H done on reaction. If Eddie has shadow out, you should probably not be jumping onto him so -S- is a non-factor AA for the most part as well. Fullscreen laserfishes stop easymode shadow advances. Summon it if you can; if you can't then use sj. and double AD to buy yourself some time until you can. At fullscreen, ground laserfish will negate the shadow's attacks so take advantage of this. Max height dj.Dizzy cannot be reached by -S- or Eddie 6H, and sj. allows lots of time to delay the ADs to bait out -S-, then work your two airdashes. Ground laserfish alone kills any immediate threat of Eddie being able to put you into shadow mixup, and coupled with spear it allows you to move in safely. In response to this, Eddie can fly up and away, but a highflying Eddie isn't much of a threat - you can just resummon or cross under him so that he can't attack you on the way down, then make him attack him as he's landing. Eddie needs roughly 50% shadow meter to get an unblockable setup from a high/low hit (Mawaru #1, mixup, Mawaru #2, puddle, some moving of the shadow inbetween). So most Eddies won't try for the 2D, -D- 22D pseudo-UB setup any earlier than that since there are better options... and risk/rewards favours blocking high or jumping out, the lower that the shadow gauge gets. Speaking of which, you don't need to FD jump out of that setup either. There's an 8-frame window between the 2D and 22D (20F startup - 12F hitstun), so all you'd have to do is just hold up-back to regular jump and block. No need to FD the FB Drill in air either, it's regularly blockable. Eddie cannot 6P -> wait for recovery -> charge IK -> activate IK... unless the opponent isn't mashing like at all. The only feasible IK setups are after near-zero recovery moves, such as an IAD j.S-H.. but you can't really plan for those. Eddie vs Dizzy is skewed in Eddie's favour, but it's still doable. Dizzy's normals still beat Eddie out on the ground, it's just that the threat of shadow summon means that she wants to avoid blockstun as much as possible. Eddie is still susceptible to Dizzy's great oki and fish lockdowns, so you just have to play it safe to get yourself into these positions as much as possible.

[Doomscyther]

some how double posted

[Doomscyther]

Heres some vids for robo ky vs dizzy, thought it might help on the match up thread here. I may look like an ass because there isnt one of Dizzy winning but the one he did win, we both admitted we played like shyt. Oh and stop using fish lasers.

Causal:

Robo ky vs Dizzy (3 matches)

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA8SrpUVOds

2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_VtOW1eCiM

3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=impROHBdfAw

[fatewalker]

Kurumster has a real love for those laser fish... nice Robes doomscyther. are you going to NEC or N Cubed? anyway, the Robes match up has always been a strange one for me. i think his mix up is pretty simple to read but he dosn't really give Dizzy room to breath and his damage is hella high. it's a rough match up to say the least. but i am not sure if those vids were a very good example of the match up. no offense to Kurumster but laser fish are full screen pressure tools only in my book and you should be able to prevent jump outs with them, let alone airdashs... also, if Kurumster had used more Tk bubbles or K/P fish the match might have been a lot closer. tip: if Robes loves 2K. dash over it and throw.

[Kurumster]

I won more than one fag. Things I already know is a problem: -I don't FRC my spike, I can do it, but I'm not really good at following it up. -Idk why, but I don't burst? LOL? -I should DAA more to get away from the pressure. -I try to F/D when I jump out of pressure sometimes but I mess up a lot..... -My oki game isn't complete trash, I just give up on trying it on Robo-Ky cuz he's pretty gay. There are some things that work, but a lot that won't. Any help would be appreciated thanks.

[Doomscyther]

If he dashes over my 2k, i can throw or throw break him if he tries, so i wouldn't really recommend that. I mean kurumster has gotten alot better, the matches last week, he was frc spike more often. Btw im heading to SER2, and trying to hit NEC (more then likely, i will find a way though so its like 90% chance).

[Kurumster]

Kurumster has a real love for those laser fish...

nice Robes doomscyther. are you going to NEC or N Cubed?

anyway, the Robes match up has always been a strange one for me. i think his mix up is pretty simple to read but he dosn't really give Dizzy room to breath and his damage is hella high. it's a rough match up to say the least. but i am not sure if those vids were a very good example of the match up. no offense to Kurumster but laser fish are full screen pressure tools only in my book and you should be able to prevent jump outs with them, let alone airdashs... also, if Kurumster had used more Tk bubbles or K/P fish the match might have been a lot closer.

tip: if Robes loves 2K. dash over it and throw.

Ok, so I'm trying to get what you're saying. I guess I shouldn't use laser fish on a close knockdown for midscreen oki? I use the H/P fish for corner oki. The 2k thing isn't going to work on this guy. He can throw in the middle of that move, If I'm dashing towards him he's gonna throw me. Doesn't dashing also have to startup before it also happens? I'll try using my bubbles a lot more as a keep away tool rather than the laser fish. From my personal experience which isn't a lot, It feels like Oki game isn't an option vs Robo-Ky, but I'll work on that because I need it. I'll use the bubbles and K/P fish more, thanks. I play too sloppy.

I'm thinking about using 6H and the dagger as oki more often on RO.

[Merilyn]

Knockdown -> H/K fish is a nice option. I also start my corner pressure with an H/P fish, so laser fishes are win. If you can, try to throw out an air spike and hold it. If you need to, release it for guard/pressure. I've seen you whiff 2H a lot. Try to get in the habit of knowing the range of the attack. 5H -> 2H is good, but only if you're up close.

[fatewalker]

you got most of what i was saying. the starting with HS fish can be a good thing but it has it's flaws. it's really slow and escapable. if your close use a delayed K fish after a KD. if you wish to use HS TK a bubble and go from there. if your going to dry summon use the K or P fish since they attack faster and the K homes in, it'll eat more hits for you than any other fish. the best Oki option on Robes IMO is TK Bubble j.K(pop) as it is safe fromhis Upper and anything else if done corectly.

[Kurumster]

I whiff 2H a TON, I wished 2k 5H worked when it doesn't counter. I also see how using the laser fish a lot can be a problem. It becomes predictable and makes you play in a certain pattern and is really easy to read.

[fatewalker]

word. IIRC 2K>5HS will work if they're crouching as well. but it's better to poke with 5K>HS or 2K>2D. Edit: will you be at NEC or N cubed?

[Kurumster]

I travel with Doom, so more than likely yeah. I'll have more than 1 month of practice though.