[UNIEL] Gordeau Matchups Discussion

[Dusk Thanatos]

I'd imagine blood rain could get you out fast enough (especially with shield) since you can mash 5a on 5f 5a characters to beat it. I'm not positive how fast it goes airborne, though. EX grab should prolly work too?

[jo-p]

Do what i do just jump back at the shoulder charge, 22a will whiff cause trust me carmine has better defensive option then hilda(which is like 2 more but w/e)

So after I eat the shoulder in the air, would we just reset back to neutral? Or would I have time to tech and punish 22a whiff? If not I don't see what would discourage gordeau from just shouldering me again once I tech.

[jo-p]

I'd imagine blood rain could get you out fast enough (especially with shield) you can mash 5a on 5f 5a characters to beat it. I'm not positive how fast it goes airborne, though. EX grab should prolly work too?

I doubt blood rain would work, but I'll test in the lab tomorrow. Carmine 5a is 6f soo that's out the window. Ex grab might be the best/only option here. How should I shield the shoulder? Early or late?

[madigawadesperate]

So after I eat the shoulder in the air, would we just reset back to neutral? Or would I have time to tech and punish 22a whiff? If not I don't see what would discourage gordeau from just shouldering me again once I tech.

 

you will have time to tech and punish the 22a whiff but make sure it's a 2a starter

[Sashi]

If he really does 66C 22A 66C 22A, etc, just shield 66C and mash out with 5A. The problem is if he adds 214A to catch the shield or 236A to catch the mash, in which case you're fucked. I'm still gonna say to ExBloodRain out.

EDIT: And if you let him hit you and he doesn't do 66C or he does 66C into something other than 22A, or if it's in the corner, you get wrecked soooo hard.

[susano]

I know Hilda is in our favor but seriously, I had trouble getting in on two of them tonight. Any tips? I only fought Hildas that didn't know what they were doing.

[Orrax]

I think I need to preface anything I say by pointing out that it has been a while since I played this matchup, or this game, but I have a few things I think are worth noting.

 

Hilda has some slow moves (the frame data says her 214B has a 37 frame start up, for example), including her overheads, so reacting to those can be a good time to CS -> EX Reaper to regain the momentum. I think if you block her overhead pin, you'll have a little room to breath (but it has been a while since I played this match), and her 22A and 22B are minus on block, so those are better bets for making a move. These are also good moves to shield, since you'll create even more space for yourself. If you have 100 meter at the start of the round, there's not a lot she can do about B Reaper, and you can always cancel to super to make it plus. At about midscreen, a correct read on a low can get you in with assault, and you can also jump back and then assault to go over even more of her stuff, but she can punish pretty well if you guess wrong, or she makes a correct read, or she just reacts in time. I've also had a fair amount of luck with 66C in this match.

 

I feel like I'm ok at the matchup (or used to be when I played more), but there's a strong local Hilda player who used to beat me consistently. So, I'm also interested in any other tips that people have.

[susano]

I think I need to preface anything I say by pointing out that it has been a while since I played this matchup, or this game, but I have a few things I think are worth noting.

 

Hilda has some slow moves (the frame data says her 214B has a 37 frame start up, for example), including her overheads, so reacting to those can be a good time to CS -> EX Reaper to regain the momentum. I think if you block her overhead pin, you'll have a little room to breath (but it has been a while since I played this match), and her 22A and 22B are minus on block, so those are better bets for making a move. These are also good moves to shield, since you'll create even more space for yourself. If you have 100 meter at the start of the round, there's not a lot she can do about B Reaper, and you can always cancel to super to make it plus. At about midscreen, a correct read on a low can get you in with assault, and you can also jump back and then assault to go over even more of her stuff, but she can punish pretty well if you guess wrong, or she makes a correct read, or she just reacts in time. I've also had a fair amount of luck with 66C in this match.

 

I feel like I'm ok at the matchup (or used to be when I played more), but there's a strong local Hilda player who used to beat me consistently. So, I'm also interested in any other tips that people have.

 

Yeah, I tried some of the things you suggested (B Grim Reaper), I got in for a few minutes but somehow this Hilda was able to push me back out. I only have like 17 matches with her in ranked so yeah, I suck with that MU.

[Sashi]

It's not really in your favor, at least not by much. It's like 5-5 or 5.5-4.5 in my opinion. She can force you to not be a shithead from max mortal range. Just play the matchup as if you were a normal character. Block until she starts doing 22s (ground spikes) then get in or push a button that'll hit her. Throw in reapers to stop her from getting comfortable. Watch the top of the screen for the orb drop and use peripheral vision to catch the flash from her hands during 5[C]. Once you're in, you're usually good, as long as you don't get hit by a tk divekick while you're going for assimilation (get read, get wrecked). The most important thing about this matchup is to never whiff shields. As soon as you do that, you can't get Vorpal and Vorpal is super important for any matchup against Hilda. Offensively, it lets you use B reaper to catch her when she's being greedy at mid-long range without taking a big risk as well as giving you meter to Ex reaper. Defensively, she stops being able to run 50/50s on you 'cause you can 214D in a pinch.

[susano]

It's not really in your favor, at least not by much. It's like 5-5 or 5.5-4.5 in my opinion. She can force you to not be a shithead from max mortal range. Just play the matchup as if you were a normal character. Block until she starts doing 22s (ground spikes) then get in or push a button that'll hit her. Throw in reapers to stop her from getting comfortable. Watch the top of the screen for the orb drop and use peripheral vision to catch the flash from her hands during 5[C]. Once you're in, you're usually good, as long as you don't get hit by a tk divekick while you're going for assimilation (get read, get wrecked). The most important thing about this matchup is to never whiff shields. As soon as you do that, you can't get Vorpal and Vorpal is super important for any matchup against Hilda. Offensively, it lets you use B reaper to catch her when she's being greedy at mid-long range without taking a big risk as well as giving you meter to Ex reaper. Defensively, she stops being able to run 50/50s on you 'cause you can 214D in a pinch.

 

I see.  Well, I'm going to try and use this advice. I know she gives trouble before you can smash her face in.

[Warslane]

If you're close enough to be in slide range you can mash it and it'll catch her during her pressure, although that's blockstring dependent. You pretty much win once you have vorpal, Hildas will have to respect it since you can cs -> ex reaper during any of her pressure strings, and that will lead to a knockdown and you win from there. Try baiting veil off once they have 100 meter. And you can throw out raw ex reaper if you see them not respecting it, i.e. you're letting them pressure you for free. Honestly it's not that hard of a match-up, you can just block forever, her mix-ups aren't hard to block, unless you're playing online. Just remember to keep cs, and 100 meter, that makes Hildas stop pressing buttons.

[susano]

If you're close enough to be in slide range you can mash it and it'll catch her during her pressure, although that's blockstring dependent. You pretty much win once you have vorpal, Hildas will have to respect it since you can cs -> ex reaper during any of her pressure strings, and that will lead to a knockdown and you win from there. Try baiting veil off once they have 100 meter. And you can throw out raw ex reaper if you see them not respecting it, i.e. you're letting them pressure you for free. Honestly it's not that hard of a match-up, you can just block forever, her mix-ups aren't hard to block, unless you're playing online. Just remember to keep cs, and 100 meter, that makes Hildas stop pressing buttons.

 

Okay, gotcha.

[Zyed]

You have to make Hilda whiff her high recovery buttons simple as that. the one big reason why gordeau beats hilda is cuz of Ex mortal slide which is 75% chance you're getting the next mix up. no reversals. only burst out for defense

 

You must also remember that blocked mortal slide situation OTHER than an ex one = punished by hilda. don't use two slides at once or much else for that matter EXCEPT, grim reaper, which could also be unsafe unless you have meter

 

theres some cross up teleport stuff that you can autoblock however you can get mind fucked if you actually attempt to block it and switch your blocking

[Zyed]

Also Merkava is so broken its not even funny. Im barely experienced in the match up and I'm not even sure but I feel like some of Merkavas normals are unblockable.

 

Also. Neutral. Omg. Completely dominates gord because gord has to grim reaper and time it right or he eats a fireball, or "fly in". That fly in is too fast, and even if you block it, Merkava gets free entry. merk also can trick you into jumping or just keep you at bay with those air and ground command throws. 

 

If that weren't enough. Wake up reversals and a command grab super as well? Merkava definitely has the best neutral and alot of defensive options in the game imo. 

[Icekin]

He does not have command grabs, they're all hitgrabs. His 236C is his only real reversal, and that loses invuln on the first active frame, so if you do meaty 66C on his wakeup, it will always trade in your favor.

 

Merkava does have an edge in neutral, but it's not that bad. Gordeau has him beat in damage, and has better mixup. GR is an invaluable tool here.

[greatfernman]

Also Merkava is so broken its not even funny.

Im barely experienced in the match up and I'm not even sure but I feel like some of Merkavas normals are unblockable.

Wake up reversals and a command grab super as well?

you play gordeau

[susano]

Also Merkava is so broken its not even funny. Im barely experienced in the match up and I'm not even sure but I feel like some of Merkavas normals are unblockable.

Also. Neutral. Omg. Completely dominates gord because gord has to grim reaper and time it right or he eats a fireball, or "fly in". That fly in is too fast, and even if you block it, Merkava gets free entry. merk also can trick you into jumping or just keep you at bay with those air and ground command throws.

If that weren't enough. Wake up reversals and a command grab super as well? Merkava definitely has the best neutral in the game imo.

I find that you have to be patient in this matchup. Not overly patient but don't go in all willy nilly.

Also, you're playing a god. ^_^

[BlaiseGod]

Destrade gave his opinions on Gordeau's MUs (UNIEL)

Hyde 5.5

Linne 4.5

Orie 7

Seth 6

Carmine 5

Vatista 6

Merkava 5.5

Yuzu 7

Eltnum 5

Hilda 7

Chaos 6

Akatsuki 6

Wald 5

https://twitter.com/destrade2/status/633494920595046400 https://twitter.com/jasepi_iidx/status/634820247875420161 https://twitter.com/jasepi_iidx/status/634820468676108288

Personally I think it's spot on

[khmxspider]

How do i fight against nanase?

[Icekin]

Lots of Mortal Slides and Grim Reapers. Nanase wants to put down wind, but Gordeau's scythe range should prevent her from doing that. She has quite a bit of recovery on j.236B, so unless you're nearly fullscreen, you should be able to (microdash if needed) GR her out of the air.

Grim Reaper is also the answer to her doing FF > Anything. Keep that 623 ready to go.

Gordeau can melee Nanase outside her DP range with C moves and specials; assimilation and MS in particular, so stay at that range and mix that shit up. She shouldn't try to DP even your 2B or max range 5A.

Delay wakeup on her to throw off her 66B/C/wind oki. Don't spend meter on damage during combos, keep it for 623B > 236C or wakeup invincible EX moves.