[UNIEL] Merkava Matchups Discussion

[Koopa_Klawz]

Does anyone have good strats on spacing out Wald? I feel like his moves from Assault come out too fast to use moves like 4B and 6C and it obviously goes over 5C and as soon as he gets to me I pretty much die.

[Skye]

Hyde's dp is not shitty.

He CAN get in.

His normals are not crap.

 

But I do think the MU is 6-4 Merkava, just not for those exact reasons.

 

He does have problems getting in, but it's by no means impossible, Hyde can dominate the midrange game pretty easily, He can dp the air swoop on reaction, his dash c kills 236c, in the corner his j.236x can trade with it in Hyde's favor, he can use either of his 3 dps to punish it on flash, 2 of which he can CS for massive damage.

 

Merkava's advantage in my experience comes from his great backdash, which hurts a lot of Hyde's midscreen oki, his 236a abare, which is good midrange, his safe pressure and yes, his big dick normals which do a fine job of keeping Hyde out.

 

Really if Hyde gets in, he can very well stay in, his pressure game is tailor made to open people up through impatient and hasty reads, especially with vorpal and meter. And just me personally I love when I have Merkava knocked down in the corner when he has meter, because j.236a trades with it and Hyde recovers sooner than Merkava, so some people use 100 EXS basically for nothing.

 

But that's just in my experience, definitely an uphill battle, but if you let Hyde have his turn, it very likely won't end.

[ShinsoBEAM]

Only character I feel like Merk might be at a disadvantage against is Gordeau since he eliminates any and all air options. On the plus side, Merk is one of the few characters who can play footsie with him and come out ahead. With shielding you can even punish a lot of his stuff from ranges other characters can't. You just can't fly like... ever. 

For me Eltnum can be really difficult if she gets in and her C button lets her fight back at mid range a bit so she's more of a threat than other rush down heavy characters like Linne. She can also steal momentum back even if you get it in your favor with DP so you have to be wary of it at all times on offense. You have the tools to keep her out though but once she gets in, she's a headache. So I'd say its probably even. Just one of the more challenging matches for merk IMO. 

Waldstein is very easy to keep out BUT, if he gets in, you're dead. Dead dead dead. Its just difficult from him at neutral. Wald will be looking to assault over 214A to get in, or full jump over 5BB with his j.[C], so you have to be very reactive with your buttons or you might get cornered into death. Neutral is very much in Merks favor though, as it is with most matches lol

As the Eltnum who goes up against this Merkava all the time.  You have to be really careful when she has GRD because she can cancel her 5A on whiff, so 5A is a completely safe meaty and if you 236C, I can 623B on reaction...If I don't suck...and the internet doesn't eat my inputs.

Also be mindful that your Stretchy grab arm is at best -13, while Eltnum 236C hits on frame 12.

[GirugaMarc]

How are you people doing vs Hilda? He can't do his normal neutral game stuff so you have to play against her a lot differently. So far my only solution to the neutral game is flying and throwing fireballs when she doesn't have 200 meter. When she does have 200 I just fly and wait for an opportunity to close the gap.

 

Blocking vs her is pretty annoying too. That overhead thing that appears above the health bars is pretty troublesome.

[SoWL]

Mirror matches almost make me hate Merkava. Almost. I suppose that's how everyone else feels about fighting him, except here, both of you do the same thing, and since the game is so neutral-heavy, it sometimes feels that victory goes to the one who presses the correct button first.

 

For starters, are there any dead zones in midair that are not caught by 6C / 214B? Since 5C / 214A make it difficult to approach Merkava on the ground, you can't help but try and jump in, only to get hit by his anti-airs. Even 66C seems to lose to pretty much everything if you decide to use it as means of approach. And to top things off, you can't crawl under the hands, either.

[SoWL]

Some random notes on the match-ups I've played the most. If anyone wants to correct me somewhere, go ahead, I'm always ready to improve my game.

 

vs Merkava: as I noted in the previous post, this match-up feels a bit random sometimes, but I feel like I'm getting better at it. First of all, don't jump or fly: since Merk's jump is so floaty and his hitbox is so big, it's very easy for them to grab you on reaction, even if you low-fly at full screen. That means that you have to get in on the ground, and it's not that difficult: just run and block whenever they try to poke you with 5C or 214A. When you get in 2B's range, it becomes a game of chicken, as both of you want to break through each other's block and get the combo going, but don't want to have it blocked. I personally found 3[C] to be quite effective at this range, as it dodges a lot of Merkava's crouching and standing attacks and leaves them wide open. Alternatively, you can simply 66C as you get closer, just be careful not to do it too far away. Lastly, after you land a hit and convert it into flight oki, it becomes very difficult for Merkava to do anything about it, so try to stay on point and don't let them return to neutral game.

 

vs Gordeau: most of this has already been mentioned in this thread, but I only noticed that after writing this, so bear with me. You actually can jump relatively freely in this match-up, or rather, low-fly in case you need to land and block a Grim Reaper. Pay close attention to his meter: he can blow up our 236C by simply command throwing it. Luckily, he spends it on quite a lot of other things, be it 22C to combo from Grim Reaper, getting frame advantage with 236C after getting Grim Reaper blocked, or simply mixing you up. Perhaps that's why it feels more safe to poke at him at long distance (especially with j.B) than try and get in, yourself. Though even then, all it takes for Gord to get in is CS for meter and Grim Reaper in to start his pressure, so you still have to block like a champ and know what to punish. I still gotta learn how to go about my own offense here.

 

vs Waldstein: smart Walds are going to 66C a lot, since that move is active for eternity, leads to good combos or throw setups, and beats all of our anti-air options... except for 623B. Yeah, that move that no one uses because our other anti-air options are better. Against Wald, though, its jump-in invuls are godsend - as long as you can react to his buttons rather than just use it whenever. Losing to it once or twice should be enough for Wald to be a little bit more careful and try approaching you in other ways, ways which are a bit easier to punish or even beat clean with your pokes. Honestly, the most annoying thing in this match-up for me is Merkava's relatively low damage combined with Wald's ridiculous health: even if you stay on top of your game, Wald is patient enough to wait for an opportunity to strike back.

 

vs Akatsuki: this match-up obviously shouldn't be too hard, but his double-jump can go around our anti-airs if he's smart enough. His fireballs are not as useless as some might think, as they beat your 5C and reach you sooner or later even if you try and 214A through it (Akatsuki blocks the hand, you block or eat the fireball, Akatsuki is free to start jumping in). Try going for random full-screen 214B to discourage him from jumping too much: his neutral ground game is nothing special. And of course, don't discount his pressure: close range is where he shines the most, and for a good reason. Quite a few of his blockstrings leave him close enough to tick-throw you, so watch out for that, too.

 

vs Eltnum: if she gets in, you're done. Done, done, done. Which is why you want to keep her around 5B or 3C's range (staying too far away might lead to laser punish), to the point that the best opening move against her is backdashing (maybe even twice). She can catch you with her etherite special if you try to jump out, but it loses to 3C/66C. Shield her blockstrings, make her whiff her normals, know her overheads. The whole match-up comes down to whether or not you can block her well, so you better study it as much as you can.

[xXavierx]

Some more little notes on the Merkava match up. At the round start you can take a step back and if they press 5b it will whiff and you can punish with your own 5b to combo. In regards to 214b, you can get a little gimmicky and jump and dive kick if you think they're reacting to the jump to make their 214b whiff and punish with 214a if you're farther than 2c range. 

[merkavas_bad_touch]

Does anyone have more detailed notes on the Orie match-up? Her 3B is so strong and keeps me out of the air but I can't figure out how to beat her on the ground (divine thrust)

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[xXavierx]

Does anyone have more detailed notes on the Orie match-up? Her 3B is so strong and keeps me out of the air but I can't figure out how to beat her on the ground (divine thrust)

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Low fly and neutral jump fly are really good vs her in neutral. Ideal range is where her normals will whiff but you can still tag her with a low fly j.b. If she commits to a thrust she will whiff right under you and you can falling j.c to a full combo. You can also 214a thrust if she tries doing them from a distance, just react to the little stance she does before the move. 

 

3b will stop a lot of your usual approaches so you have to play a little lame and wait for an opening. Know your ranges as whiffing 5b and 5c will probably have you eat a thrust and then she's on top of you. Without 100 meter she doesn't have an invincible reversal so if you get a knockdown or the corner and she's without resources, make it count. If you can avoid blocking the persona explosion super, as they will inevitably use this to get in if you're playing from a range she can't hit you. If you're not blocking and it's out 214x to stop her from dashing in for free. 

[Koopa_Klawz]

What's a good way too stop Gordeau's shoulder shove on our wake up? It seems to beat every wake up option I have. For 236C, it will trade every time and knock us both down and he can just get up and continue pressure.

[Icekin]

You block it.

[Skye]

Fucking genius.

[SoWL]

There's also Veil Off and 214D

[Koopa_Klawz]

You block it.

And end up dealing with grab and 22X frame traps. Got it. 

 

[Nerk]

That's Gordeau. You let him get the knockdown. Don't do that.

[Icekin]

And end up dealing with grab and 22X frame traps. Got it. 

 

I can't tell if this is meant to be sarcastic.