[UNIEL] Chaos Matchups Discussion

[Crimefighter]

I may be misunderstanding your example, but if you crouch block the air EX Orbiter, you should get hit by it for blocking the wrong way (assuming you're holding the stick towards Hyde). If you're stand blocking in neutral, you'll usually have crossup protection.

I was crouch blocking, I block it either direction.

If I'm thinking of the right thing, the rekkas > EX Orbiter string punishes people who switch block, because it isn't actually a crossup. It looks like one, though, and people end up blocking the wrong way because of it. Rekkas > CS > EX Orbiter is fairly annoying, too, because that actually does require players to switch block.

I'm pretty sure I've been crossed up by it without CS, but I'll ask my local hyde tomorrow at casuals what his set-up is and confirm.

Are you talking about the system mechanics page on the wiki? Or is there a thread somewhere? I'll share what I know if you don't have it

[Tari]

I was crouch blocking, I block it either direction.

I'm pretty sure I've been crossed up by it without CS, but I'll ask my local hyde tomorrow at casuals what his set-up is and confirm.

Are you talking about the system mechanics page on the wiki? Or is there a thread somewhere? I'll share what I know if you don't have it

 

I'll make a video reference of what I'm talking about w/ Hyde's aerial EX Orbiter, just to make sure we're on the same page. I'll try to get it up in a little bit, probably no later than tomorrow.

 

edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyKRS_ZeTkk (you can see which directions I'm blocking in the input display)

 

The thread I'm talking about is this one: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/9084-uniel-system-mechanics/

 

Hasn't really been updated in a long time, though I just reworded the cross-up section a bit.

[Crimefighter]

I'll make a video reference of what I'm talking about w/ Hyde's aerial EX Orbiter, just to make sure we're on the same page. I'll try to get it up in a little bit, probably no later than tomorrow.

 

edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyKRS_ZeTkk (you can see which directions I'm blocking in the input display)

 

The thread I'm talking about is this one: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/9084-uniel-system-mechanics/

 

Hasn't really been updated in a long time, though I just reworded the cross-up section a bit.

You're doing it right on top of them, what I'm saying is if you jump past them such that hyde and the fireball are behind the opponent it creates an all blockable situation. Even though both hyde and the fireball are on the other side.

Here's a video of what I'm talking about. It's also possible to do it such that hyde lands behind the opponent, it's still blockable in all directions if you do that. If the fireball has some kind of "side of origin" it's independent of it's own sprite and of hyde's. It could be "the point from where hyde jumped" but then hyde neutral jumping, doing orbiter, and the opponent running under him should cause it to cross-up (it becomes all blockable in that situation as well).

In this situation you are always able to block in the direction hyde is facing(chainshit corrects his direction, causing an actual cross-up to happen), which would make sense as the rule, but chaos's cross-ups happen despite him not turning around. So neither rule appears to be universal.

[LordSpectreX]

Wait, I'm very confused, you're right, it does crossup, but you have to roll through RIGHT when Azhi hits? If you roll too early they can still block in the original direction despite both Chaos and Azhi being on the other side.

 

I'm confused as hell.

[Tari]

Pretty sure it's because air orbiter isn't a standalone projectile. It's a projectile that's actively being fired by Hyde. Afaik, the crossups don't work unless the projectiles are 'self-firing' (ie: Carmine trap/pinwheel summon, Hilda rain, Seth orb, Vatista crystal, Byakuya web, etc.).

 

It's unfortunately impossible to test this with ground fireballs, because you can't make them go backwards.

 

 

That said, I went to double check this stuff in training mode and realized it's not a point of origin, it's a direction of facing. The only projectile that determines its own direction of facing at the time of firing is Seth's orbs, and that's likely because it has to retrack the opponent when it fires. Pretty much every other projectile that I tested in the game has a fixed direction that you can block against.

 

 

 

Wait, I'm very confused, you're right, it does crossup, but you have to roll through RIGHT when Azhi hits? If you roll too early they can still block in the original direction despite both Chaos and Azhi being on the other side.

 

I'm confused as hell.

 

Haven't experienced this yet, what setup are you using? If I just run up and do 22B, then roll/jump/whatever and stand on the other side, they get hit if they block the wrong way.

 

edit: no, come to think of it, I may have run into this. Going to go check again.

edit2: nope, can't get it to happen. Hm.

[LordSpectreX]

Haven't experienced this yet, what setup are you using? If I just run up and do 22B, then roll/jump/whatever and stand on the other side, they get hit if they block the wrong way.

 

edit: no, come to think of it, I may have run into this. Going to go check again.

edit2: nope, can't get it to happen. Hm.

 

I'm doing j.2C>2C>22B>B+C, just like in the video. Even if Azhi and I are on the other side, it doesn't cross up unless I get that perfect sweet spot.

I have the dummy set to downback block, is that a possible reason why?

[Tari]

I'm doing j.2C>2C>22B>B+C, just like in the video. Even if Azhi and I are on the other side, it doesn't cross up unless I get that perfect sweet spot.

I have the dummy set to downback block, is that a possible reason why?

Try recording the setup and blocking it yourself to make sure it's blockable. The dummy might be auto correcting.

[LordSpectreX]

Try recording the setup and blocking it yourself to make sure it's blockable. The dummy might be auto correcting.

 

Yeah it's the dummy. Man...thanks.

[Dingofist]

It's probably more a sign that the Waldsteins I play are mostly subpar, but I don't find that match so bad. He's big and fat and sometimes he actually lets lizard keep him out.

My biggest issues are Eltnum, Carmine, and Merkava. Vatista too the few times I've actually fought her. Those four characters seem to just shut down anything I want to do, and I'm never sure when to try hitting a button.

[khmxspider]

All i have to say for Carmine, merkava and vatista.... dont try assault to much. Youll get hit by projectiles pretty freely.

As for eltnum... i hav no clue.

[Crimefighter]

If merkava decides to play it safe it's basically impossible to hit him, you have to catch them messing up and use that momentum to carry you.

Vs eltnum you can't really approach because her neutral options are incredibly good and very safe, instead you have to try and zone her out or use azhi to whiff punish at range and confirm. If she has you in pressure just keep blocking and shielding eventually she'll have to try and throw you or get pushed out which will create an opening for you to hit her(or tech the throw). The character doesn't really have any weaknesses, there's nothing to exploit, you just have to be a lot smarter than your opponent.

Vatista isn't that bad. If she's zoning you out just shield everything, it's free grd. If she concentrates you can too, Chaos builds grd about as fast (faster? I know it's written down somewhere but I don't remember where). Keep an eye out for laser and be mindful of what she's charging. Learn your 6C's range so you'll know when a fireball can be reflected to hit her and when you'll just whiff. Also, never throw out 6C in neutral unless you CS it immediately, good vats will laser on reaction every time.

[Shining Aquas]

Why does this character not have an overhead?

Why isn't 66C an overhead?  It feels like Vatista and Merkava would be possible if there was a way to open them up that didn't involve jumping.

[Icekin]

66C can only be done from neutral. If you want an overhead at neutral, you already have 6D.