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[UNIEL] Nanase Matchups Discussion

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Welcome to the Nanase Matchups Thread!
Welcome to the Nanase Matchups Thread! Feel free to ask any questions or share any information you have learned about any specific matchups you've learned in UNIEL!

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Besides picking Gordeau, how do you deal with Waldstein? His normals have so much range, and his hurtbox is so far behind it that nothing will reach him.

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I'm probably not the best person to try and explain this but it might help a bit so I decided to write it. This post turned out to be really long. Spoiler tagging 

 

To deal with character's with long reach, it's important to take note of 2 important but more subtle things. First, Nanase has a fairly quick dash and a backdash that's just as quick and covers a good amount of ground. This makes swiftly repositioning her into a more ideal position very doable when you start getting a good feel for her movement. The second important thing to note is that when a normal or move whiffs, it goes from being whatever frame advantage it is on block to being as - as there are recovery frames for the move. 
 
So with those 2 notes in mind, let's move into the game plan. While you play, take note of the poking range of your opponent, in this case, Waldstein and always keep it in your mind as you move around the battlefield. Also, keep in mind your own maximum poking range. Being in your opponent's poking range while having them in your poking range = Good! Being in your opponent's poking range while not having them in your poking range = Bad! Being in your opponent's poking range while not having them in your poking range and having no plans to reposition yourself either out of their poking range or into your poking range = Extremely Bad!
 
So, it's clear that there's a no-man's land at the far end of Waldstein's poking range where you can't poke at him without whiffing but he can poke at you. We have to get past this area somehow or else, we won't be able to get anything done. This is where the first 2 notes we took come into play. You can try to make Waldstein whiff a move so you can take advantage of the recovery frames of the move to quickly close the gap with Nanase's speed and get things started. Getting Waldstein to whiff a poke comes down to playing around near end of the no-man's land. You can dash forward to make the Waldstein players think you plan to charge in and then stop just short of entering his poking range to narrowly dodge an attempt at a well spaced poke. You can also enter into the no-man's land area and then quickly back dash back out to try and do this too. 
 
Once you demonstrate that you're capable of fishing for whiffs, this will start to make Waldsteins hesitate a bit to poke if you aren't too deep in range. This hesitation opens up the opportunity to catch Waldsteins by surprise by using Nanase's quick speed to quickly get through the area and get into our poking range for a well spaced poke. It's important to note that the two strategies pretty much are dependent on each other. You won't be able to just run up poke if you haven't demonstrated that you aren't fishing for whiffs. And if you don't try to catch them off guard by running up with a poke and just try to fish for whiffs, they'll just slowly advance on you and eventually back you into a corner. You need to carefully apply both strategies. 
 
Also an important note, as you may have suspected and has been implied, because this strategy requires you to move back and forth, it won't work as well with your back in the corner. Unfortunately, I don't really have any advice for this scenario. I'm still currently experimenting with dealing with corner pressure and pressure in general myself. But from what I've been reading here and there, a good shield can supposedly work wonders, especially against predictable jump ins. You'll have to find out for yourself though. Haven't tried it yet. 
 
Well, hoped that helped somehow. 

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I'll give it a shot, but I am worried about the idea of making people wary of fishing for whiffs, since most of the time what I see Walds do is just relentlessly assault and j.whatever, and give zero shits about consequences (because most of the time, there are none). I think shielding obvious jumpins is probably going to work well.

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I'll give it a shot, but I am worried about the idea of making people wary of fishing for whiffs, since most of the time what I see Walds do is just relentlessly assault and j.whatever, and give zero shits about consequences (because most of the time, there are none). I think shielding obvious jumpins is probably going to work well.

 

There's always consequences for everything, especially if something whiffs. Though, the consequences aren't always easy to see and understand. Everything I said pretty much works against assault j.X too. If the assault j.X whiffs, then you have the time it takes for them to come back down to the ground, to move forward and get things started. In fact, it should be easier than usual since the assault will be moving them closer to you. If you're close enough, you can do a small dash into j.A to hit him out of the assault j.X before it can come out. If you're in the awkward place where you're unsure whether you'll be able to retreat to make it whiff or you can go in to intercept them, it's best to stay put and block. It's unfortunate since this will probably lead to letting them start pressure but it would be worse to try and retreat or go into intercept and get opened up because you misjudged your spacing. Sometimes it can't be helped but do your best to not put yourself in situations like that.

 

that can all be summarized as "use your quick dash to make him whiff a move so you can get in."

 

hmmmm, maybe if you replaced dash with movement, it could work as a summary for those familiar with the strategy already. I wouldn't try to summarize something to someone who isn't familiar with the strategy already though. A lot of important points will get left out. This summary for instance doesn't really cover

  • How to make things whiff
  • Why making things whiff matters
  • The importance of balancing trying to make things whiff and trying to rush in.
  • The importance of positioning and how you can overcome bad positioning by quickly repositioning yourself

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Hilda is annoying, Linne not that much. You just can't zone Hilda with fireballs, so just use it for oki. I got good results against her when using 236B since it can travel fast a lot of space and punish some of her mashing zoning, also 2C has a lot of range and is easy to confirm. If you are very far away don't use 236B yet, try to move forward a bit with the shield first to cut some distance if not you could be in trouble. If she starts to jump a lot, try to catch her with 214C.

 

Against Linne, she has very good pressure but the DP is not a bad option against her since her range is not good, our range is much better, so just shield until she is out of range and then 2C or 5C or something (even better if she whiffed something after the shield) and our speed is similar to hers, so playing her normally won't be a problem (zoning her to get in and oki and stuff). Just be careful with the fireball in the air and the roll since both can pass through Nanase's fireball and start the pressure immediately, also her double jump and dive kick can mess with some of our aerial game and anti-airs.

 

I would think that Hilda has a bit of advantage over Nanase, and Nanase vs Linne is 5-5 or we have a bit of advantage over her.

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I dunno about Linne is 5:5 on Nanase mu, but i seriously need help on those match, her Kuuga destroy everything and i can't even zone her properly, she'll stay at Kuuga range, where it Destroy our pokes and bullet... In fact on Kuuga range, even tk236a is a bad idea(random tk Kuuga punish > hit confirm ex Kuuga)... not saying it's impossible mu, but it's really close to Merkava matchup, Nanase need a really good read to turn the table.

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I don't know about Nanase's range being "much better" than Linne's. It seems pretty similar. She does give me a lot of trouble, tbh.

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For Linne, Kuuga is definitely a powerful option. Very good at blowing up predictable pokes in neutral and predictable attempts to mash out of pressure. That said, like most projectiles, it's undesirable to whiff it so it's not something they'll want to throw out all the time, so long as you can show them why it's a bad idea to do so that is. As for the range of her normals, I think they have slightly less range than Nanase's normals. It just doesn't matter in the end because Linne is so fast that she can get in and out of her ideal ranges in a heartbeat ^,^ Not a bad MU though, mostly even I feel. Just requires some good footsies. But then again my XP in UNIEL is still pretty low and my skill level is ??? so who knows.


For Hilda, I wouldn't really say it's a list of things I look out for since I haven't really run into a lot of Hildas. This is more a list of notes I made after reading Diarmuid's Hilda guide in preparation for fighting them and playing her a little later on.

  • Pillar is a 15 frame low. A and B versions come out at set distances but EX tracks. Be careful of this when trying to advance. Make sure to downback when you try to advance
  • 5.[C] is a slow overhead but has a massive hitbox.
  • Lynchpin is an overhead with decent startup but comes out at set distances.
  • Interference A (The horizontal spike that comes at you from the front) is negative on block but has good start up. Interference B (the one from the back) is pretty positive on block (+13) but has slow startup. So block from the front, try to advance a bit. Blcok from the back, don't move a muscle.
  • Skewer whiffs on crouching. A version is 17f of startup and -10 on block. B Version has 39f startup but is +6 on block.

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Yeah, her Kuuga is her best weapon against Nanase, but it is a problem to a lot of people because of blockstun, I think. Shielding it gives you a lot of GRD though. How do other chars get rid of Kuuga pressure? Maybe using our backdash or try to catch her on startup with 236B? Maybe using the 6C follow-up to pass through? Probably she will sell herself after that last one though.

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Yeah, her Kuuga is her best weapon against Nanase, but it is a problem to a lot of people because of blockstun, I think. Shielding it gives you a lot of GRD though. How do other chars get rid of Kuuga pressure? Maybe using our backdash or try to catch her on startup with 236B? Maybe using the 6C follow-up to pass through? Probably she will sell herself after that last one though.

 

If u try to read Kuuga with 236B... you'll get high ch'ed :v: ... in my experience trying to read Kuuga and punish it startup isn't working as well as trying to read Merkava full screen poke. since the recovery is very fast and we need to cover a decent range to punish her... Anyway Shielding is the only option i haven't really abuse in this game... I'll try those 1st

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I find non-tk wind orbs better than tk. Her options for hitting you on the ground far outweigh her options of hitting you out of the air. All of jer kuuga hit straight forward or at a diagonal-down path, so standard jumping or BC gets you in a better position to start any kind of offense imo.

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What do you guys look out for when fighting Linne and Hilda ?

Against Linne, it's sort of tricky.  Projectiles are risky to use too much.  Use one too high and they can roll under if they're close enough in time or they can run up and DP/whatever.  TKing projectiles I don't like to do midrange.  Things like 2C will just CH you out of it without any strict timing.  Any time a Linne does a dash cancel after ground kuuga, she's minus and usually punishable (2A/5A), so don't let random players get in on you for free.  Speaking of which, don't let Linne get free pressure after j2B (divekick) which has landing recovery.  You're free to mash during then.

 

If you're able to get out a projectile in neutral or do it on oki, you'll have to get ready for a lot of options.  Be careful of roll.  If they go in the air, the two things you want to have happen are either assaults or double jumps.  Anti air with 3C or 214C on the former, or do dash DP on the latter is what I'll usually do.  During situations when I'm waiting for one of these options, I'll stay at maybe air assault distance away.  You'll be able to punish things better, and most importantly, so you can weave out of air kuuga's range

 

Another annoying thing in this matchup is you'll have to refrain from pressing buttons too much after your 5C/2C into whiff 2A.  With how much of Nanase's hurtbox that overlaps with her attacks, you might get clipped by 2C before your attack.  Usually walk back a bit to bait a whiff and then get back in if you think they're the type to mash C moves after blockstrings.

 

Cornered is obviously where you don't want to be.  Jumping is too risky, so my best hope is to shield parts of it and inch forward.  If you're able to stick out a move and get them to block it, 214C out of there to escape.  Most of my meter in this matchup is for 623C anti airs and 214C to escape (and of course finishing rounds).

 

No idea on Hilda after fighting Pain's. :/

I'm at a loss on that one.

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First of all, fucking love your avi Rhap, Shiro ftw.

Anyway, its not somethin I'm aware if its useful or not, but after fighting a Gordeau at anime-fest today, he used his IW at neutral. While it was goin tjrough the animation, I was nearly dead and yolo 236B'd under the part where he spins the scythe and got a free CH.

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Haha, thanks.  I'll probably be checking out this and the Nanase thread more now that I'm dedicated to using her a lot more than before.  Left the Eltnum army to join the Nanase one since the former felt a little stale after awhile.  Plus she's the one I'm having most fun with.

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