[CPEX] Tsubaki Yayoi Changes and Discussion

[BatousaiJ]

A TK j.214D would probably be harder to react to than 6A if setup properly but j.214x stuff being an overhead in a loketest isn't the first time it's happened and it got changed back to normal before, if memory serves.

 

I can see it being useful for a pretty big damage starter in the corner but as you say, it's risky and involves using a charge so it's not a huge deal.

 

It's a beneficial change though but I somehow don't think it will stick. 

[Airk]

A TK j.214D would probably be harder to react to than 6A if setup properly but j.214x stuff being an overhead in a loketest isn't the first time it's happened and it got changed back to normal before, if memory serves.

 

I can see it being useful for a pretty big damage starter in the corner but as you say, it's risky and involves using a charge so it's not a huge deal.

 

It's a beneficial change though but I somehow don't think it will stick. 

 

Yeah; This was on the early loktest changes for...CS2? I think?  It was definitely something they toyed with before, and it got rolled back before it ever went live.

 

That said,this is exactly the sort of thing that we need - assuming even no other changes, this means we have the equivalent of a 17 frame overhead that can lead into pretty significant damage in the corner.  Even the presence of this option would means people would have to deal with the situation differently.

 

Does it cost charge? Yes, so what? Right now charge is mostly garbage combo-boosting stuff - we need options to use charge to actually open people up and/or play neutral.  This is doing that.

[Level5-Chan]

6C no longer jump cancellable. 

...

COME ON! Another unfair disadvantage for us?!

 

Wait... Is it on block only or all of it?

[Monarch]

Going to lose my cool if I can't bait bursts with 6C anymore.

[Airk]

6C no longer jump cancellable. 

...

COME ON! Another unfair disadvantage for us?!

 

Wait... Is it on block only or all of it?

 

You know exactly as much about it as anyone here. :P

[Level5-Chan]

You know exactly as much about it as anyone here. :P

 

Please make her better. I don't wanna wait for CP 3.0.

[zaeris]

regarding j214d as an overhead, in my opinoin it is better than not having that option. in general it would expand the mix up option more, namely jc delay jcc, if that is block too you cn throw another overhead with j214d, in terms of gheto you can creat a block string into j214 off j236a or even 623c lol.

[BatousaiJ]

[D.R.F.]

^ so sad cuz its true:0

[chzchan]

Just trying out tk.214D from a blocked 5B or 2C (and not 6C) right now. It is impossible to follow up midscreen without a rapid and the only thing you can pick them up with from sliding with is 2B which completely kills combo damage, especially because the IAD path will no longer be possible. Even in the corner, 2B is your only option if you don't want to blow 50 heat. Essentially, you will NEED 50 heat if you plan on using tk.214D in pressure. If it is blocked, you are super minus and if it hits, at least in the corner, you need that rapid so the combo actually does real damage.

 

So far I have a simple 4k route in the corner ready. I'm really really unsure about if it will work with 2C's and 2CC's new properties as well as 236C's cross through attribute.

 

tk.214D > RC > 6CC > 214B > 22 > 5C > 2CC > 236C > 5A > 5C > 2CC > j.C > j.236A > j.214A for 4010

 

One of the biggest problems I am faced with so far is the fact that you just absolutely cannot have your opponent block anything before 5B or 2C or else tk.214D will whiff. This is even without barrier, and the pushback effect is even worse in the corner.

 

I mean, yeah it is pretty good because it is an overhead you can't be grabbed out of as easily, but it does not seem all that practical. If 3C was jump cancellable on block, maybe this would be more handy in my eyes. Hopefully they give j.214D a much longer untechable slide.

[zaeris]

about j214d on hit non ch

you can go:

2b 2cc 236c ectera in corner

or

623c delay j214a route.

[chzchan]

Wait, DP starts up fast enough to pick them up off the ground in the corner?

[zaeris]

let just say our dp is faster than 2b which is saying how much slow and sucky our lows are ^^,

frame data wis off the top of my head its either 10 or 11 frame start up, probably 10, because I remember it being 10 frames of invul or 9.

[Airk]

DP is 10 frames of  startup. Freakin' 2B is 13.

 

Any chance we can pick up with 5C? :P

 

Anyway, I expect all this stuff to get rejiggered anyway, so developing combos now seems weird.

 

That said, couldn't you TK it 'forward' by doing like 9214D to get it to move forward a little more?

[zaeris]

I remember doing cross over j214d back in cs2 that is probably more practical I will post a vid later I guess. Anyway tsubaki nerft are not as huge as other characters so it might just stick. I mean with the current changes her changes hasn't been too serves still I'm waiting for actually good news otherwise it be charge 5 stock hold 50% wait for opponent to comment to a bad move that can be overdrive raid and go for 7k damage. Lol the new hakumen although I'm fearing what the real hakumen can do with the new changes lol.

Cross over j214d has the same concept as ragna iAd inferno divider if people want to imagine it, it's quite practical.

[JyakotuKurayami]

Let's be honest, we all want CS2 Tsubaki back with the CP upgrades she received, like the fireball and new Distortion Drive. As it stands now, she's a subpar rushdown character that continues to get nerfed for whatever reason. Like someone in another thread mentioned earlier, ArcSys really needs to make Tsubaki feel dangerous when she's getting charges. People now don't seem bothered if she even has a full 5 charges anymore, even though it improves her game dramatically, especially with the Mugen Install.

[chzchan]

I have asked people that have fought me if they watched my bar. Most of them said no or that it does not affect their approach or game by looking at it. This needs to change.

 

There needs to be a real fear associated with Tsubaki's resource. For instance, with Bullet if you let her get 2 dingles and 50 heat, if you don't barrier at the right times you may be looking at 5k TRM setups. That's super scary.

[TeeJay]

Give Tsubaki a 236A/D or 214B/D fafnir mechanic property mechanic (Just messin'). I do catch people when I accidentally do 2B 214B (probably after a dash?). I don't know what people are doing but while getting pissed off at my input, I've gotten free combos. 

 

On a serious note, I do remember using j.236 as a crossup. I remember they had different trajectories and the C version pushed Tsubaki forward quite a bit while A was pretty fast. I guess it gave us a weak 50/50 ambiguous crossup game but I don't think it really combo'd. I guess the D version did that but I did gimmick it to keep forward pressure when I was too far out. I used that thing like street fighter. 

[zaeris]

its funny how I've been trying to perfect OD to punish certain attacks now they have made it easy mode ^^

[Kiba]

Let's be honest, we all want CS2 Tsubaki back with the CP upgrades she received.

You're not serious.....

Anyway, if j.214D remains overhead, people will have more reason to try and stop Tsubaki charging in neutral. That alone has made her a little more scary.

[chzchan]

頼む、アンケだ！ツバキの2Bは10F（※）にしてくれとアンケを書いてくれ！
※5A>2Bが立ちくらいに繋がる時の最大値です。

ask, it's Anke! Let me write a questionnaire with us to (※) 10F is 2B camellia!

※ This is the maximum value when the 5A> 2B leads to long standing.

 

But what does it mean? Did they make 2B start up faster?

[D.R.F.]

10 frame 2B??? Have some of our prayers been answered!.!?!?!

[BatousaiJ]

How could they know exact frames at a loketest? They can only really say that "it seems faster" at best, no?

 

10 Frame 2B would be 3 faster than what we have now which would be huge, making empty jumps low a real thing for Tsu among other things. 

[chzchan]

More stuff from Spinoza's twitter.

対空も2CC>B剣で浮かすあと一緒でOK。

Anti-aircraft also OK after together to float in 2CC> ​​B sword.

 

2CC's new float allows connecting to 22B? Did they make 2CC float for a long enough time for a max charge 22B?

結局5C2C>閃（剣）風〆出来ることを確認。 RT @Spinoza33: あとD剣>5C2C>JBJCC>5Cまでも確認。

To make sure that eventually 5C2C> blende can (sword) wind 〆. RT @ Spinoza33 until after D sword> 5C2C> JBJCC> 5C also confirmed.

 

New ground > air > ground combo to replace IAD combo? 214D is being talked about here. Guess there's a purpose to j.B now, but that will 100% kill damage.

しゃがみくらいに5Aor2Aから2B繋がる、さいきょう！！
立ちくらいに繋がらない、意味わかんない！！！
繋がっては不味いのか？

Lead 2B from 5Aor2A to much squatting, strongest! !

It does not lead to long standing, I do not know the meaning! ! !

Went wrong is connected?

 

Something is wrong, but I'm not sure what. 2B doesn't gatling from 5/2A? No idea.

[Airk]

Non-awful 2B would be awesome.

 

I am actually liking the sound of our loktest changes, which means I'm gonna be super sad when they roll them all back for the final version.