[CPEX] Kagura Mutsuki Gameplay Discussion

[Toushi]

R.I.P   CH 6D~C Damage in midscreen/fullscreen with thise nerfs 

[Angry Guy of DE]

You are missing my point with the B orb change.  In corner combos the B orb added damage, combo extension, and reset the Stance change limit.

I haven't seen much footage but I'm comparing what his options were from viable starters and how much damage and possible oki could be achieved.

From a 5B starter in 1.1 Kagura could reach as high as 4K meter-less with A orb oki and around 3.6K with Stance 2A hard knockdown into B orb oki.

Does 2.0 Kagura have similar potential with the change to B orb?  I still stand by my question of why Kagura couldn't keep the original B orb by choosing to hold B during the entire animation? 

[WaltzOfTheWolf]

I believe if they did that, I have a feeling more people would either complain of the input, or just bitch giving him another projectile option. I personally thing it would be pretty neat. However I would switch the input be: (4)6 C Then would be easier to differiate between the 3 orbs. :D

 

On another note, I know we haven't seen much but I think Kag will still suffer in this update. with the inclusion of the stance cancel to CT, OD buff.  I personally think it's a bad trade off for butchering 2D A - 6D A link and B orb. Speaking of which... does that mean the Oki setup for 6D C > 2B D > (4)6 B will suffer too? (mainly in corners)

[Maadhum]

I believe if they did that, I have a feeling more people would either complain of the input, or just bitch giving him another projectile option. I personally thing it would be pretty neat. However I would switch the input be: (4)6 C Then would be easier to differiate between the 3 orbs. :D

 

On another note, I know we haven't seen much but I think Kag will still suffer in this update. with the inclusion of the stance cancel to CT, OD buff.  I personally think it's a bad trade off for butchering 2D A - 6D A link and B orb. Speaking of which... does that mean the Oki setup for 6D C > 2B D > (4)6 B will suffer too? (mainly in corners)

Yeah, theres really no point to risk doing that anymore because B orb at that range hits like twice. Its in one of the videos Toushi posted against Carl.

[Angry Guy of DE]

The oki with B orb is gone.  The value of the B orb in the past was that it didn't move enough so that even in the corner an opponent couldn't delay wake-up or roll to dodge it as they would get hit.  Its now just A orb that is not often forced to be respected as they can delay their wake-up to avoid it.

The B orb is now gimmicky or only semi-viable to cover you as you run towards the enemy, unfortunately it probably doesn't have enough durability to beat as many things as before as it needs distance to build up durability.

I think his damage and oki are going to be much weaker in the corner in 2.0.

[-Seo]

I think his damage and oki are going to be much weaker in the corner in 2.0.

 

His damage is sounding about the same so far, average from B starters, high from stance starters. His near complete loss of oki really sucks, I'm not seeing any practical uses for B orb yet.

[Toushi]

I've found this

 

[Combos]

- [5.200 Damage] (corner) 2DA>5DA>6DA>CT, 2C>5C>6DC>2DC>[2]8C

- [3.423 Damage] 5BB>3C>6DC>2DC>[4]6A, 5A>6B>5C>6DC>2DA>[2]8C

- [3.700 Damage] (corner) 5B>3C>6DC>2DC>5DA~66, 6B>5C>6DC>2DA>[2]8C

- [4.086 Damage] (corner) 5BB>3C>6DC>[2]8C, 2C>2DA>5DA>6DA, 3C>6DC>2DB

- [5.665 Damage] (corner) 6B>3C>2DC>6DC>[2]8C, 2C>5C>6DC>5DA>CT, 2C>2DB

- [4.135 Damage] (corner) 5BB>3C>2DC>6DC>[2]8C, 2C>5DA>CT, 3C>6DC>2DB

- [3.800 Damage] (corner) 5BB>3C>6DC>2DC>5DA~66, 6B>5C>[2]8C, 2C>6DC>2DB

- [5.227 Damage] (corner) 2DA>[4]6A, 6B>5C>[2]8C, 2C>5C>5DA>6DA, 3C>6DC>2DB

- [4.260 Damage] (corner) 5DB>2DC>6DC>[2]8C, 2C>6DC>2DB

[Toushi]

2DA>5DA>6DA>CT, 2C>5C>6DC>2DC>[2]8C

 

 

Wow!!!!  interesting

 

 

 

6B>3C>2DC>6DC>[2]8C, 2C>5C>6DC>5DA>CT, 2C>2DB

 

/\  2C  After [2]8C, WTF ????

[-Seo]

[2]8C causes a slight wallbound in the corner, though it's apparently enough to combo after, probably thanks to the extra height 6DC gives on hit now.

[Angry Guy of DE]

Okay I'm gonna really need to see some footage of how [2]8C is used in combos.

Also not sure how you sneak in enough charge to flash kick after some things like 5C and stance 6C.

[Toushi]

4.086 Damage and visually sounds cool.

 

But with 5B>3C starter this damage will be reduced

[Toushi]

Okay I'm gonna really need to see some footage of how [2]8C is used in combos.

Also not sure how you sneak in enough charge to flash kick after some things like 5C and stance 6C.

 

 

You mean stance 5D and 6D right???

 

 

Its simple

 

You have to do  6D~[2]C > [2]8C

 

 

For 5D stance you do [1]D~A >8C for example. But only if you have used the 2D stance already.

[Angry Guy of DE]

I'm referring to combos that have 5C into [2]8C, no stance.

How much does Stance 6C knock a dude up compared to now?

Also, I'm pretty sure most combos actually result in better damage that go 5B straight to 3C and ignore 5BB.  Something with the prorate of 5BB or something.

[Toushi]

5C into [2]8C I've never done that, and I don't know if it's possible.

 

The damage scaling for example is like:

 

6B > 3C ________ 4100 DMG

 

5B > 3C  ________ 3400 DMG

 

5BB > 3C  ________3000 DMG

[Angry Guy of DE]

Well that's all based on the p1 of the starter and the p2 as well.

5B : p1 85 / p2 85

5BB / 6B : p1 100 / p2 89

I don't think its as much of a difference as over 1K between 5B starter and 6B but better starters = better potential damage.

Hell in 1.1 a good CH 6C with its p1 of 100 meant that Kagura got 5K meterless corner carry midscreen against everyone besides Jin and Valk because of their sliding hitboxes.

[Toushi]

I don't think its as much of a difference as over 1K between 5B starter and 6B 

 

Its crazy, but the damage scaling of the entire combo is HUGE.

 

Try it now in de lab and you will see. 

 

Do any combo, one starting with 6B > 3C and  the other starting with 5B>3C.  Its 1k or more of scaling,

[chzchan]

This was always possible btw.

 

I swear I have only seen it done to people in the corner.

[-Seo]

I'm referring to combos that have 5C into [2]8C, no stance.

How much does Stance 6C knock a dude up compared to now?

Also, I'm pretty sure most combos actually result in better damage that go 5B straight to 3C and ignore 5BB.  Something with the prorate of 5BB or something.

 

Just take advantage of the buffering window BB has. If you can do 6B>5C>[4]6A consistently, you can do 5C>[2]8C no problem.

[chzchan]

Okay my Kagura buddy just did it, but he says that you can't stance cancel out of Wyvern or else it pushes you too far back for the command grab to happen because stance cancelling locks your position to the ground instead of letting you slide forward with Wyvern's recovery or something like that which is what allows for the command grab to happen due to the positioning.

 

In the 2.0 demonstration video at 1:12 it looks like there is a much smaller gap between 6D~C and 5D~B. I am probably wrong, but I dunno.

[-Seo]

http://youtu.be/qudtUJFTjO4?t=8m6s

 

Looks like 3C recovers a lot faster now. I'm updating the first post with confirmed changes, so if I've missed anything, let me know.

[Kimchi]

@chzchan, you can do it in 1.1 just have to stance cancel very late in the recovery of wyvern.

[chzchan]

Okay. I think I understand. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[Corner + 25% CH] 6C > 6D~C > 2D~A > 5D~A > CT > 5C > 6D~C > [2]8C > 5C > 6D~C > 2D~B > ([4]6A) [6738 DM] [10% HG]

 

Here. I saw it in one of the new Tsubaki match videos and I shit my pants, especially when I saw that it ends in projectile oki and doesn't require a DD ender. So apparently you're now able to combo out of [2]8C in the corner and cancelling into CT adds a metric fuckton of damage.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Yea, he's still got it...

[Skye]

Hey guys, I'm really digging 2.0 Kagura. What do you guys think of him so far?

[-Seo]

He's pretty much the same character he's been since 1.0