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Ventus Tatshima

[XRD] Sin Kiske Gameplay Discussion "Playing with Poles"

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That's what I thought, especially with all the HOS parallels (who charges faster when you're at lower levels).

 

I must say, Sin deals ridiculous damage off of easy BnBs, so it's no wonder they gave him a handicap like that. He's a good contrast to El's multi-layered playstyle: who cares about stances or whatever, just cheese people out with great range, mobility and damage.

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His air Pole swipe is hella messed up, though. It's multi-hitting, covers nearly 360 around him(like Venom's J.D) and seemly causes tons of blockstun.

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His 236+HS can nullify projectiles!? Sin is looking better by the minute~ And I can't wait to see what he can get off mid-combo hop + w+ Also, j.6HS(? the circular strike) doesn't look like it gives much guard stun at all.

 

Also Sin mentions having a technique known as "Domestic Blizzard" but I don't see that in his movelist, perhaps his Instant Kill?

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That's what I thought, especially with all the HOS parallels (who charges faster when you're at lower levels).

 

I must say, Sin deals ridiculous damage off of easy BnBs, so it's no wonder they gave him a handicap like that. He's a good contrast to El's multi-layered playstyle: who cares about stances or whatever, just cheese people out with great range, mobility and damage.

Actually I hope they tone down Sin's damage slightly. I mean, that combo was so easy it might as well been a Persona Auto Combo.

 

On another note, does anyone that knows can fill me in on which move is which on the videos?

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On another note, does anyone that knows can fill me in on which move is which on the videos?

Hawk Baker ------------------- :f::d::df: + :s:

Beak Driver --------------- :d::df::f: + :h: (can be held)

 → Thrust Like There's No Tomorrow - rapidly press :h: during ①

Bull Bash -------------------- :d::db::b: + :s:

Elk Hunt --------------------- :d::df::f: + :k:

Jumping ---------------------- :d::db::b: + :p: or :k:

'Cause I'm a Growing Boy ----- :d::db::b: + :h:

Vulture Seeds ---------------- :d::db::b: + :s: during a jump

Aerial Beak Driver ----------- :d::df::f: + :h: during a jump

 

 

Notes:

- Beak Driver can negate projectiles (unsure if this also works with the aerial version or the follow-up)

- P ver of Jumping is like a high hop upwards, while the K ver vaults him forwards

- Bull Bash hits overhead while Elk Hunt hits low

- Captured all(?) but 1 of Growing Boy's items [ironically, the actual slab of meat lol] unsure if this is just a visual effect or if they affect the rate at which Hunger gauge is filled

- Pretty much no one was using Aerial Beak Driver or Vulture Seeds, so it was hard get shots for them, unfortunately didn't see either hit but I assuming for aerial exchanges you'll be doing Vulture > Beak if aerial Beak still blows back and Vulture just lifts/hits.

- Didn't bother capturing Supers, they seemed distinct and un-needing of demonstration (R.T.L is guidable charge move, Voltic Deign is large projectile).

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Thanks for compiling pictures of all the moves, SolxBaiken. It helps a lot. The notes are pretty good too.

 

I'm going to wait and see what the startup is like on Bull Bash and Elk Hunt and what's the reward but right now, their ability to give high/low mixup combined from the range they hit shows promise. I'm trying to imagine what we could use the P Hop for but nothing is coming to me. Got to brainstorm more. 

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Hawk Baker ------------------- :f::d::df: + :s:

Beak Driver --------------- :d::df::f: + :h: (can be held)

 → Thrust Like There's No Tomorrow - rapidly press :h: during ①

Bull Bash -------------------- :d::db::b: + :s:

Elk Hunt --------------------- :d::df::f: + :k:

Jumping ---------------------- :d::db::b: + :p: or :k:

'Cause I'm a Growing Boy ----- :d::db::b: + :h:

Vulture Seeds ---------------- :d::db::b: + :s: during a jump

Aerial Beak Driver ----------- :d::df::f: + :h: during a jump

 

 

Notes:

- Beak Driver can negate projectiles (unsure if this also works with the aerial version or the follow-up)

- P ver of Jumping is like a high hop upwards, while the K ver vaults him forwards

- Bull Bash hits overhead while Elk Hunt hits low

- Captured all(?) but 1 of Growing Boy's items [ironically, the actual slab of meat lol] unsure if this is just a visual effect or if they affect the rate at which Hunger gauge is filled

- Pretty much no one was using Aerial Beak Driver or Vulture Seeds, so it was hard get shots for them, unfortunately didn't see either hit but I assuming for aerial exchanges you'll be doing Vulture > Beak if aerial Beak still blows back and Vulture just lifts/hits.

- Didn't bother capturing Supers, they seemed distinct and un-needing of demonstration (R.T.L is guidable charge move, Voltic Deign is large projectile).

Wow,Thanks man! You really went the extra mile there!

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I really want to play this character, he seems soo much fun to play.  I love mid range characters, I am a Faust main and I want to main this man too. From all videos i watched and data I have seen,

He is not that difficult to pick up and not very fast. Elphet seems kind of fast but overall I prefer SIn. Good pokes, not as large as Faust's ones but amazing large specials.

Moreover his supers are delicious. It seems like the Charging one (RTL I guess have some inv. frames). while the second one travels fairly slow and perfect for oki. I can't wait. 

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I do gotta wonder if Elk hunt goes under projectiles like Ky's stun dipper

I really doubt elk hunt will go under projectiles, the hit box is even bigger than kys stun dipper, which isn't a low profile move. Unless they give elk hunt upper body invincibility like grand viper. Which I also doubt, because Sin's midrange pressure/attacks don't require him a whole lot to get in at point blank range where he's not as effective.

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I do gotta wonder if Elk hunt goes under projectiles like Ky's stun dipper

As Blade's said, he doesn't need it. With Beak Driver (236HS) nullifying projectiles, he'd probably be too good being able to avoid them and punish them at the very same time.

Thanks for compiling pictures of all the moves, SolxBaiken. It helps a lot. The notes are pretty good too.

I'm going to wait and see what the startup is like on Bull Bash and Elk Hunt and what's the reward but right now, their ability to give high/low mixup combined from the range they hit shows promise. I'm trying to imagine what we could use the P Hop for but nothing is coming to me. Got to brainstorm more.

I can imagine plenty of uses for P hop. Since specials are cancelable into it, you'll be able 5o pull back from reckless pressure, extend pressure, mixups or even mind game into neutral jump.

It also allows for fullscreen combos after a CH Beak driver, which wallbounces. It's going to be a very useful move. We'll most likely see some meaty air setups on Oki that will mix up the opponent at the same time. With the option to double jump it, baiting reversals is going to be fun.

Actually I hope they tone down Sin's damage slightly. I mean, that combo was so easy it might as well been a Persona Auto Combo.

On another note, does anyone that knows can fill me in on which move is which on the videos?

We'll have to see about that. Bear in mind, everybody deals a shit ton of damage in XRD compared to AC+R.

What I've noticed in the very first match video of Sin that was posted is that Elk Hunt > SRK (I dunno the name of the lighting move) is a launch combo.

Obviously, close range 2D > SRK will also work. I'm not talking about some OTG relaunch but actually an early special cancel that will keep the opponent from hitting the ground on a knockdown.

All this leads to one question: will we be able to combo afterwards? I don't know how much hitstun the move will provide on an air hit. If it provides enough, we might be able to do stuff like Elk Hunt > SRK launch > P Hop > air series > air beak driver (j.236HS), which would most likely end in a slide knockdown if it has the same properties as its ground variant.

I'm also already coming up with various setups that could effectively mess with the opponent's mind enough that they could work like frametraps.

Eat charge canceling, P Hop, Elk Hunt, Overhead special (what's the name?), etc.

EDIT: With air specials that will also serve as Divekicks, I can see air approaches being very confusing for opponents, leading to various CH air to ground setups.

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Finally saw charged Beak in action and it appears to actually change the hit properties, seems to [at least] give a small wall bounce similar to uncharged counter hit. Also I was right about Vulture > Aerial Beak for air combo ender; Vulture does indeed appear to just hit/lift and Aerial Beak still blows back similar to ground version.

 

Vault (Jumping) and YRC should add to Sin's utility, especially the former as being able to essentially "jump cancel" any Special could come in handy for mixup as well as safety.

 

I swear Hawk is kind of inconsistent, I mean, since he can cancel his reversal I wasn't expecting it to be super good on its own but I sear I've seen it act differently nearly every time I've seen it lol but I'm not sure if cancel points are playing a factor or if I'm just derping out on noticing the obvious. I'll have to study footage again in the morning = ~=

 

His combos so far look so fun and fluid~

 

Oh yeah, Throw > RC looks like it might be fun for styling lol

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Good to know Vulture actually hits the opponent up. It'll help making sure Aerial Beak Driver hits in case the opponent's too low. But generally I'm guessing it'll be better to manage the hunger meter and use it only when it is required (going for the kill or elevating the opponent for beak to hit).

It could perhaps even be a somewhat good situational AA if TK'd, like Baiken's move that is similar.

Hawk will probably need to extensive testing. I've seen some pretty small and some other big blowback from the move. Hitstun's completely inconsistent also. I'm guessing it'll be mostly used to keep the opponent honest when they start getting reckless and disrespectful outside of combos.

Has anyone noticed that the aerial multi-hit attack (I'm guessing j.HS) has little hitstun? I've seen a video where somebody IB'd it and punished the ground move followup. Btw, not complaining, just sharing.

Least but not last, I'm surprised that nobody's mentioned the possibility of repeating the same specials within the same string of attacks.

I've seen Sin end a combo with Elk Hunt > Beak Driver > Elk Hunt > Beak Driver. A very simple combo that dealt a pretty nice amount of damage. This has the possibility of becoming a great midscreen bread and butter.

On a side note, I'm still wondering whether it is possible or not to cancel specials into Eating. If it is, I could see Sin becoming a pressure monster.

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On a side note, I'm still wondering whether it is possible or not to cancel specials into Eating. If it is, I could see Sin becoming a pressure monster.

 

I faintly recall seeing Sin cancel Beak Driver into eating which had the nice bonus of sending the opponent across the screen, making it safer.

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I faintly recall seeing Sin cancel Beak Driver into eating which had the nice bonus of sending the opponent across the screen, making it safer.

Oh snap. Shit just got real! Did you see it from a video or in person?!

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A video, but I dont remember which one.

EDIT: Found it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Betu-PNUMPc#t=1m26s

He cancels Beak Driver into Eating.

Wow, I hadn't noticed! This is great news, thanks for sharing. I'm wondering what's the frame advantage/disadvantage on a blocked beak driver > eat charge.

I'm guessing it could potentially be unsafe from too close. What do you guys think?

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Wow, I hadn't noticed! This is great news, thanks for sharing. I'm wondering what's the frame advantage/disadvantage on a blocked beak driver > eat charge.

I'm guessing it could potentially be unsafe from too close. What do you guys think?

I really cant say.

What really has me curious, actually, is what would happen if you YRC eating. I mean, will the effect of filling your Hunger Gauge still happen?

I ask becuase their after moves in Xrd that can be YRC and still have it's effect(like Ky's CSE) while others don't(like Venom's QV not producing a ball if YRCed, although maybe I'm wrong on this).

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Growing Boy is a Special, so I'm not sure why that was called into question.

 

Real talk, Sin probably won't have many safe options, especially not up close and a blocked anything > Growing Boy will certainly be punishable, so confirming a hit before cancel will be important. Also keep in mind that you are sacrificing oki every time you use Growing Boy so you're basically allowing the opponent to regain footing. This may change once we get to see how RC can be applied, but that just means Sin might end up . . . meter hungry :kitty:

 

Also I doubt Hawk will be a good option on its own, on raw counter hit the opponent recovers faster than you . . . This was the inconsistency I was talking about, but reviewing footage again, it looks like Hawk's strength actually comes from the hit stun/state of whatever it was canceled off of (ex. Elk causing the opponent to be airborne so canceling into Hawk gave a good lift). As a reversal it will be absolute trash but it will make for good combo filler. It might not be a good starter through, depending on gap and speed of cancels.

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Maybe the fact that you can cancel specials would allow his dp to be safe, by either canceling it into another safer special on block or convert ti into a combo on hit or CH. Just a thought, using my exp with Hakumen when it comes to this sort of thing.

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Like I said, that will largely depend on the gap and speed between cancels. After all, the opponent recovers significantly before you on counter hit, so I can't imagine normal hit being much better; at best if the opponent is allowed to guard you can at least start a mixup since you can go overhead or low. Honestly, the only things that could possibly be "safer" at that range would most likely be either Elk or Vault.

 

Though I'm not complaining, considering his range and ability to cancel, giving Sin a good DP would just be nutz lol However fighting other characters with DPs might suck since they'll probably be able to reversal your reversal :v:

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