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VR-Raiden

[P4AU] Ken Amada vs Marie

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  • Use this thread to discuss the Marie matchup.
  • Please focus more heavily on discussing how to play the matchup properly as Ken rather than who is at advantage/disadvantage.
  • This post will be updated as info arises.

Round Start:
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Neutral:
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Offense:
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Defense:
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Punishes:

On Block:

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On Reaction:

  • ...

Character Specific Notes:

Combos:

  • CH B+D > 2A+B fails midscreen, use dash 2B(1) instead.

Mixups:

  • ...

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Okay, so this MU is REALLY, REALLY weird.

-Her 5B beats yours in almost all aspects. It has better gatlings, better range, and can lead to an impressive mix up game if she has meter for OMC after cancelled into her bag slam. Be wary if you use 5B a lot as a poke, it WILL lose to hers.

-Her 2B is...okay. It can stuff some of your jump ins, but it's manageable. SB dog in pressure to cover jump ins will work well so long as you make sure you attack before or after Koromaru does. Basically, her 2B isn't active long, so it can stuff one attack, but not both if timed away from each other.

-You out range her jumping normals, but air to air, it's hard to beat her if she's close. Her j.5B and j.2B are fantastic air-to-airs, and they're fast enough to stuff your j.5B. Your j.2B and j.A aren't too useful in this section of the air either, so be wary.

-Her bag special looks like it has a gap after the first hit. It does NOT. You will get stuffed even if you instant block the first hit and DP.

-Presents are a non-issue in this MU. Send dog at her if she starts fishing through her bag for stuff to throw.

-Once you lock her down, her options are fairly limited, though be wary of using 214 C/D in pressure. Mistimed, and her 5B can stuff both you and Koro.

-Her 5A and 5B beats your backdash for some reason. You basically won't be able to use this on wake up.

-Your DP CAN stuff j.C and j.D, but it's incredibly easy to misspace. Only do this if you're SURE you'll hit, because you're asking to eat shit if you whiff.

-Her DP is strong against your pressure. Treat it like Kanji's DP, essentially.

Overall, this feels like it's slightly in Marie's favor, despite your range and her inability to use presents. She can also stop dog's approach if she has meter with 236C+D fairly easy, so keep that in mind. Once you get going though, you can run a train on her, just be wary of her DP.

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Neutral

- j.C is annoying. Tested stuff on it with 2 recordings, random between j.C and j.D (they look very similar at the start).

 

- Can't 2B her j.C on reaction reliably, if you react to her stopping in air with persona behind her it can be j.D then you get hit with lasers. 2B only works vs j.C if you do it really early.

 

- DP seems alright, but takes quick reactions. You can't do it too late or she's able to block, our DP is really slow. And if you do it too early, you miss. If she's right above, DP will hit both j.C and j.D. Same deal with 236236A, but it's faster so you have more time to react with that, but much longer input.

 

- Safest option looks like rolling it, as long as you aren't in range to roll into j.D lasers. If Koromaru is out, he'll get hit while you're rolling if you don't do something before rolling. I find that at the right spacing, 5C>roll as soon as you see j.C/j.D seems good, 5C will CH her j.C and you can combo after the roll with 2A/5A. 5C gets hit by j.D lasers, but after your roll you're at advantage when she lands. Just have to be sure to not be at a range where you'll roll into lasers for this.

 

- 236C+D works, Koromaru continues to bust through j.C after you get hit out of throw, and you can pick up with 236B after that. If she did j.D, Koromaru just eats lasers though.

 

- In Awakening, reaction 214214A works easily (or B ver for more damage, you have enough time). 236236C can also hit either if you see her do them and Koromaru is available.

 

- As for anticipating it, dash j.A is good for countering her out of it. j.B can outrange it at the start before she starts descending.

 

Defense

- 236A/B(2 hit bag move, 2nd overhead), there is no gap on normal block, like Dopples mentioned above. On IB, there is a gap which you can DP/super. The gap is too small to roll unfortunately. Watch their meter since it seems like a common thing to OMC into a high/low mixup in which case your DP/super wouldn't necessarily hit.

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