MegaBlues Report post Posted February 23, 2015 Hello! I'm currently a Rise player who is looking to learn how to play Elizabeth. I know that Liz is one of the 'worst' characters in the game, but she looks interesting to play as. However, all of the tools under her belt are a bit daunting, especially the awakening/non-awakening split, so I want to ask. Where should I start in learning to play this character? Combo theory, neutral, or something else? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ichipoo Report post Posted February 23, 2015 For me, neutral starts first in general (getting used to her normals and specials, knowing how they work, etc.) and then start with simple BnBs and work your combo repertoire up from there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magic Fanatic Report post Posted March 8, 2015 I know this is a particularly strange question to bring up, but moves between unawakened and awakened Liz share SMP? Example: SB Garu -> whatever to combo -> Mind Charge -> SB Garu? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firedraco Report post Posted March 8, 2015 I believe they are considered seperate moves by the game, but I can't remember for sure now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Speakeasy Report post Posted March 28, 2015 Are the combos we're seeing Liz do in 2.0 possible in 1.1? They look like they would be (at least ones that don't need a bunch of bufus or multiple stocked 2Cs). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firedraco Report post Posted March 29, 2015 Most of them aren't from what I remember. Autocombo routes are impossible because A Bufu hitstun isn't good enough. Can't Mindcharge off A bufu or Hamaon off of a throw so those are out. Unawakened B Zio got a massive speed upgrade so you can do 2C > B Zio like in the old days (I think maybe even 5C > B Zio with 2C flag up works but idr) Awakened D Garu is more annoying to combo off of, you have to go D Garu > j.C > SB Garu unless it's the first hit and it's counter or fatal counter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Speakeasy Report post Posted March 29, 2015 I was thinking more along the lines of how the Lizzies combo after 5D and such, with air chain>j.C>2A. I know there are combos like that off non-fatal now, so that's what for me thinking. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firedraco Report post Posted March 29, 2015 5D > rising j.B > j.A > j.C > 2A doesn't work in this version (at least not consistently). I think you can get it by fiddling with delays and stuff but it's not the same across everyone. I remember 5Ds untech time got increased in 2.0, so there are some weird things you can't do like 5D > delay till corner > 5AA > ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TastyPancakez Report post Posted March 29, 2015 it definitely works consistently with a fatal counter. i've never seen one use it outside of that Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Speakeasy Report post Posted April 6, 2015 Has there been a writeup or anything done on the benefits of our different oki/knockdown options? For example, midscreen 2C > D Agi, 2C > SB Zio, j.C, safejump, j.B > j.D safejump, etc. It could be helpful for people learning Liz/working to improve. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firedraco Report post Posted April 7, 2015 Does j.B > j.D safejump even work in this version? If you have a decent combo they can tech in the air (which can be good, I use it for 2B resets all the time in Awakening heh). Anyway, I haven't seen anything. Don't forget about [2C] pressure in the corner either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elochai Report post Posted April 7, 2015 Has there been a writeup or anything done on the benefits of our different oki/knockdown options? For example, midscreen 2C > D Agi, 2C > SB Zio, j.C, safejump, j.B > j.D safejump, etc. It could be helpful for people learning Liz/working to improve. I think the jD>j2B>jC safejump/safejumps in general are always the best bet. 2C>D Agi is okay but frame 1 invul supers will get the opponent out. If you hold back during D Agi you can block some of the supers (Narukami SB Ziodyne for example) but you still lose momentum & a Persona card. Some supers will hit you too, like Atom Smasher. With safejumps you don't really have to deal with stuff like this since your opponent has to respect you on their wakeup. IIRC routes that let you do 214B>D Agi are better than those that just allow 2C>D Agi since 214B>D Agi lets D Agi hit meaty. I don't really like SB Zio midscreen in this game. It just isn't too strong. There isn't really anything Liz can do from fullscreen to press her advantage imo. If you're in awakening then 2C>SB Zio is kinda okay midscreen since you can run up to the opponent in between the two shots. 2C>SB Zio is really good in the corner though imo because fear + paralysis is really good. The only other notable knockdown/oki options that come to mind atm are like jC>5C/2[C]. I like 2[C] meaty since you can catch upback and roll and you can get decent damage afterwards. You can also use 2[C] meaty for something like 2C>5A>5D. There isn't really a writeup on stuff like this afaik. Besides doing another combo doc I wanted to do a character overview doc for 2.0 as well. If you want more indepth information atm though I wouldn't mind writing something I guess. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OmnixTSC Report post Posted April 9, 2015 I'll have a template where we can dump all of the Liz information soon. I'll post it as soon as I finish setting up the Yukari doc (which won't be until next week). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Volvorati Report post Posted April 9, 2015 I'm new to the site and I have a quick question about one of Elizabeth's challenges in Challenge Mode. On her Challenge #24, I am having trouble connecting the 2C after 5B>5C. Narukami will just recover before I have a chance to input the 2C. Any tips? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elochai Report post Posted April 9, 2015 I'm new to the site and I have a quick question about one of Elizabeth's challenges in Challenge Mode. On her Challenge #24, I am having trouble connecting the 2C after 5B>5C. Narukami will just recover before I have a chance to input the 2C. Any tips? I did this combo a few times before posting just to see what could go wrong and I think I would need more info on why you're dropping it. Are you doing 5C(1) instead of both hits? That's really the only way that I could see you dropping this combo at 5C>2C. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Volvorati Report post Posted April 10, 2015 I did this combo a few times before posting just to see what could go wrong and I think I would need more info on why you're dropping it. Are you doing 5C(1) instead of both hits? That's really the only way that I could see you dropping this combo at 5C>2C. I just got it. I was only hitting 5C once instead of twice. I was also starting the combo too close to Narukami, which messed up my timing. Thanks for the help! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Speakeasy Report post Posted April 12, 2015 Is an awakened A Bufu > j.D route acceptable for non-1HSM meterless damage? For example, something like 5AA 5B 5C A Bufu j.D sweep? It seems super prorated though, to the point where it doesn't look like you get 5AA after j.D, so I don't know if you can get a knockdown off it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TastyPancakez Report post Posted April 12, 2015 that's the safejump route iirc. after j.d use 5B > 2B > jc j.B > j.2B > j.C i doubt 5AA > 2AB > 2D works (even if you can fit 5aa > 2ab in the combo the enemy can probably just tech away from the poison) i think the safejump + knockdown from j.C is better anyways Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firedraco Report post Posted April 12, 2015 In this version since j.D has less untech time, if you start with your back to the corner you can do 5AA > 5B > 5C > A Bufu > j.D, then reset them in the corner with 2B, pretty sure it catches basically all techs if you time it right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyler1173 Report post Posted May 8, 2015 What should i do in a combo after D garu? I usually use 2b but half the time it dosnt connect, and i end up getting Hit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elochai Report post Posted May 8, 2015 If you don't want to use 2B then you can just use 5B or 5C. For example, outside of awakening mode: 5AA>5B>2AB>236CD[8~2]>2AB>236D[8~2]>5B>5C(2)>2C>214AB>214D>2AB 5AA>2AB>236CD[2]>2B>j.B>5B>2AB>236D[8~2]>5C(2)>2C>214AB>214D>2AB If you want to be safe about using 2B after D garu, then just use it after an airhit sweep, or on counterhit. The proration isn't that bad in those situations so it should be pretty easy to combo 2B>jB>whatever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TastyPancakez Report post Posted May 9, 2015 also if you are in awakening whenever you manage to land it you have to follow it up with j.C > j.236CD > stuff (unless it's a fatal) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyler1173 Report post Posted May 10, 2015 I think ill go with using 5c after D garu. If i wiff it in that case it still pushes them away so they cant mash 5a on wakeup. Awakening garu i dont have a problem withif its a fatel counter, which it usually is, because they just float down and i can do whatever. My go-to corner combo, on the other hand, i can use the J.C since they can air tech away after garu in that case. (I probably got a lot of those terms wrong. Im newish to fighting game forums) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyler1173 Report post Posted May 10, 2015 I think ill go with using 5c after D garu. If i wiff it in that case it still pushes them away so they cant mash 5a on wakeup. Awakening garu i dont have a problem withif its a fatel counter, which it usually is, because they just float down and i can do whatever. My go-to corner combo, on the other hand, i can use the J.C since they can air tech away after garu in that case. (I probably got a lot of those terms wrong. Im newish to fighting game forums) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Arnei Report post Posted July 20, 2015 Question on Maziodyne: Does this skill have some weird projetile invul frames? You know, besides the hitbox just destroying pretty much every non-super projectile in the game. The thing is, i saw a Liz evading Minazukis Wings of Purgatory with Maziodyne. The wave just flew through here while she was reading the laser. If timed correctly, you can even hit Minazuki out of his recovery with the hitbox. But i had a heart time to get this working with any other super projectile. Anybody got an idea what is happening? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites