[P4AU] Elizabeth vs. Adachi

[Eshi]

FIRST POST

[GBAer64]

Seems like Adachi can easily pop us like a balloon like we can to most. The cross-ups he can perform also apply quite the stress.

 

One thing I do know for sure (since I don't have first-hand experience and probably will be wrong at any other detail I state) is that full-screen zoning won't be a safe haven for us in this matchup with Adachi's (what I assume to be 2D) move where M.Izanagi strikes down with red lightning at full-screen.

 

Really, not many places are safe since the bop-kick attack he does is an overhead which is pretty quick up close. His gunshot is about mid-ranged and is also pretty quick, and then there's the said persona attack Adachi can perform.

 

... Eh... I guess nowhere's a haven actually... ^_^;;

But in any case, quick reactions are the only way to get past Adachi since he really can pack a punch for us Lizzie players, even without Heat Riser or his status bonus affects later on.

 

I'll continue snooping around to see if we have ANYTHING. 

[Hotashi]

Seems like Adachi can easily pop us like a balloon like we can to most. The cross-ups he can perform also apply quite the stress.

 

One thing I do know for sure (since I don't have first-hand experience and probably will be wrong at any other detail I state) is that full-screen zoning won't be a safe haven for us in this matchup with Adachi's (what I assume to be 2D) move where M.Izanagi strikes down with red lightning at full-screen.

 

Really, not many places are safe since the bop-kick attack he does is an overhead which is pretty quick up close. His gunshot is about mid-ranged and is also pretty quick, and then there's the said persona attack Adachi can perform.

 

... Eh... I guess nowhere's a haven actually... ^_^;;

But in any case, quick reactions are the only way to get past Adachi since he really can pack a punch for us Lizzie players, even without Heat Riser or his status bonus affects later on.

 

I'll continue snooping around to see if we have ANYTHING. 

2D is not truly an option, it's hitbox is deceptively huge. It can just get popped by a random Ziodyne. You could even 2B or 5A it on reaction possibly. Not only that, Adachi is persona dependent and only has 4 cards. Just block if that's what they opt for. 

 

The bop kick attack is a Dragonpunch and takes over 20 frames to come out, plus it hurts him for 10% of his life. 

 

He cannot truly do anything full screen. Just keep him out and don't get manhandled. 

[TD]

We win the zoning war I believe, it's just his cross slash we need to worry about as well as those persona tricks where he sends iza upward and does 5c, giving iza more range. Kind of like how Liz does jc and Thanatos stays in place and can be operated shortly after. But better.

Adachi needs to get in. If he can't, Liz has the tools to keep him out and break his persona. Full screen you only really need zio, 2b, and knowing when cross slash is coming.

This was all basically mentioned already. If it comes to close range though, I think adachi wins here of only by a little.His jc is insane. Also has a faster jb than us. Same in the ground, his tools have more priority. But it is far from fighting a yu or Mitsuru.

[Red]

Zoning Adachi is easy as long as you respect his 2D. 5D's startup is really slow and gets beaten by Maziodyne and if he just spams 2D it's easy persona card broken. Adachi does have the upper hand but unless you like to press random buttons the fullscreen game is not that bad for lizzie.

 

Be reminded however that CH Cross Slash does nearly 3K. So don't press buttons.

[TD]

But you don't have to respect 2d. You're literally just reacting to it with 2b. Pretty much any and everything else is beaten by zio. Even if he does j2d, the startup is such that you can beat it 100 percent. You must expect it but it's like expecting a red dot to appear in the center or a white screen. As in, see it, press it.

Everything else is beaten by zio. I wouldn't say ads hi has the upper hand at all, I think this match is close to even if not Liz favor. His comeback factor... It's Liz, -everyone- can beat her in two good combos.

[Red]

Yeah you're right. I was talking about Adachi's pressure. I just read my post and it seemed pretty vague, my bad.

 

Adachi will try to use Zio as much as he can to try and start his pressure so you should be ready to stop him or to start blocking.

 

My experience vs Liz has taught me that a lot of them like to DP while in the Zio Pressure. Don't do that, please. He's pretty much going to try to 5AA and then jump. Liz's advantage lies in Adachi's lack of good fullscreen moves(We have already discussed 2D) but if he gets in it's a nuisance.

 

Also don't forget about the 2C trick!

[OmnixTSC]

It's still too early to really say who's favor this MU is in. There hasn't been a lot of exploration with Adachi yet, so give it some time.

 

Adachi really has no reason to go for 2D or j.2D against Liz unless he's looking to punish something or call out a whiff. He doesn't need to just be using it at neutral whimsically as mentioned before. 5D and j.D can be used similarly with the added bonus of giving him a free approach when active, but it's effectiveness is weaker with how our new Agi and Zio work. We can pretty much see the 5D/j.D and react with our Agi (if you're not already doing something) or Zio (no matter what we're doing) to get a free persona break. There's also the possibility of us getting oki or free damage.

 

Even with Liz's 2B, you really don't want to try to challenge his air options when he's approaching you unless you're reacting to something that's not already right next to you or you're jumping in the air in order to air-to-air something (which is still a risk). I'd recommend staying grounded and outspacing him. Try to identify the player's movement habits, as you want to know when to just move forward or roll to go under something...or when to just block. Oh, and be sure to super jump and air throw j.2D attempts if you're predicting them and they're close to you. Doing so leads to 3kish free damage and oki.

 

Adachi has good mixups and his pressure is really good with meter, which makes you really want to avoid blocking him for too long. Try to keep in mind that I said 'with meter' in regards to his pressure. It's not that his mixup is much worse without it, but his pressure definitely is a bit weaker when Adachi doesn't have SP. SB Gun Shot is a really good tool for him, though his staggers are definitely still a threat without it. It's easy to confirm a hit with it and has a really good amount of frame advantage on it. The good thing about him needing meter in order to get that advantage is that Adachi also needs meter in general to be a threat. If he has to sacrifice meter to continue his pressure, he's losing meter that could be used in other scenarios that could really turn the tables on a situation (if this wasn't already obvious). It's just that not having meter is a really big issue for him, just like it is for Liz...which is why I'm pointing it out! With this being the case, make sure your defense and reads are on point if you want to attempt to quickly cripple his offensive strength and bully him. His defensive options are really good with meter as well. If you can force him to use his meter on offense, you'll have less to worry about on that end, too.

[GBAer64]

In a way, it kinda sounds like Adachi is an alternate Elizabeth but without the status ailments part since he needs the Magatsu buff to inflict anything. (And that's only achievable when he's in awakening as I've heard).

 

Though I guess the tradeoff is he has more health and can make some intense cross ups/pressure. But lacks the Invigorate passive that us Elizabeth players possess to continue it for a long time.

[Speakeasy]

How do we punish j.2D? He can just super jump into the air and do it and it feels like all I can do is block.

[GBAer64]

That's... kind of your only option if he super jumps... But if that's the case you can easily run up to him or set something up by the time Adachi comes back down.

 

SB Maziodynes are really fun to use in those cases. * v *

[ludwig van]

Made a thing on dealing with one of Adachi's unblockables: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqn0jhxiAy0

 

I know there's no inclusion of Liz in that vid, but on weaker starters you can connect dash 5B after a neutral air tech.