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[CT] Hakumen Thread

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if not noel. She's super ambiguous.... (decent ones online are so rare!)

beating noel is the same for everyone; guard high and react to 3C (hakumen specific: counter stuff you react to).

the only noels worth worrying about are the ones that know how to macgyver their mixup, which are rare indeed.

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Noel/Tao for me. I've played enough awesome Litchi's that I kind of know what to do, so it's not as bad. Block low when she has staff, watch for overhead flip kick when it's placed. They're also IAD happy for some reason, so 6A away. Tao, on the other hand, I have to counter everything because they always run around everywhere and I want to know some better tactics than that.

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Okay... just wanna call out all our Hotaru champions in here. This is it. I'm making the leap. I'm going to START USING HOTARU. I was sparring with 100 difficulty Hakumen mirror (don't ask me why I was bored) and holy crap he's quite the Hotaru warrior. So I started using it like he did, and I beat him a lot! My only irk is that the horizontal range is meh, but I'll get used to it eventually. So I'm just curious on 1. combo from TK normal hit 2. combo from TK CH 3. combo from in air (decent height, maybe a little higher than IAD height) normal hit 4. same thing but with CH 5. if you guys do it off of hops a lot (on an analog stick it's a touch difficult, wonder if doing TK is bad in comparison) 6.specific uses in match-ups and general reminders about it. I WANNA MAKE THA LEAP! >:[

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1) wait abit jC land 2C sjc j2C ad j2C 2) 5C enma jC land 2C jsc j2C ad j2C Of course by the corner you can add more. 3) jC Tsubaki That's one of them 5) Yeah it's a good part of the dash mixup especially if the opponent likes to hit buttons to try and interrupt the overhead/low mixup 6) Someone else will do the dirty work lol. Neutral tech against Tager trying to Atomic Collider tech catch and input it asap to beat his Atomic Collider.

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combos off of hotaru in general are the same as combos off of just about anything else. 5C zantetsu, 5C enma and 6C shippu all combo after hotaru. use hotaru for air to air approaches (mixup between it and air throw), use a dash cancelled hotaru to bait shit (textbook example is rachel's 3C- backdash and dc hotaru for clean CH), and in general just any time you feel like launching without taking much risk. and remember, it doesn't have very much recovery at all. even if you whiff one midair, you can do things on your way down (j.2C, j.C, j.D to punish anti air, whatever).

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So, regarding pressure and mixups, what kind of options does Haku have? Here's what I've been working on: (IAD j.C), (B/2B), A/2A(xN), (66 Throw) or (214B) or (TK Hotaru)

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if you're close a good string is 2A > 2A > 6A which is safe. You can also go 6A > 6B for low mixup and then frame trap from 6B if they try to punish it. Farther than that distance you've got to work everything off hop. If you make them afraid of your hop when you have 2+ stars with hotaru its only then you can really start to mix-up with 66 throw, 66 2B, 66 tsubaki. His pressure is shit because you have to burn stars but his mix-up is good as long as you make yourself intimidating, make your mix-up short and sweet.

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So, regarding pressure and mixups, what kind of options does Haku have?

i made a long post here that summarizes most of hakumen's mixup. if you still have any questions, i'll answer them as best as i can.

Tao, on the other hand, I have to counter everything because they always run around everywhere and I want to know some better tactics than that.

i've seen really aggressive hakumens beat tao, but if you ask me the best way to fight tao is to play carefully and not risk getting hit by anything.

outside of combos, the only buttons i press against tao are A and B. maybe C if i'm throwing.

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I tend to do better playing aggressively against her. If I wait for her to come to me she has too many ways to be confusing on the way in.

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bjholmes:

check the frame advantage page (found here: http://s1.zetaboards.com/blazblue/pages/hakumen_data/). You'll notice things like 2B and 6A are +2 on block, making them good frame traps (as 2B is a low and can be hit confirmed into either 236A or 214B for a combo) and 6A can gatling into his low 6B (and further mixup off that.) On the subject of 6B, 6B>41236C is great in that you go from a quick low to an overhead as well as the fact that the overhead will combo if 6B connects. 5A is +3 but whiffs on almost everyone crouching so I personally rarely use it. On a wild landing string (after you jump in and get them to block, j.C usually) It's all about spacing. Since j.C has such a deep hotbox, you may do it too early in the air sometimes and they recover from blockstun before you even hit the ground. As such, many opponents will try to mash out with either fast moves such as 2A, or backdash, or DP if they have one. Hakumen does not have the luxury of jumping in and forcing block via gatlings (ie. Jin j.B>j.C>land.) So when you're coming in from the air, make sure you are low enough such that you are still frame advantageous upon landing. Watching for Instant Blocking will help determine this as well.

Once you can establish that (and stop your opponent from mashing and get them to actually block) Then you can start doing fancier mixups. Dashing throws are great, and once they start breaking that throw in dashing j.214C for both a quick overhead and throw bait. 5B is great to throw out and jump cancel into another falling j.B/j.C to reset pressure.

Also if your opponent has a habit of trying to jump away from ground mixup, throw in some IAD air throws/IAD Hotarus to catch them. Believe me, it works wonders.

Hope this helps. Check the first page of the Hakumen Everything Guide if you want to see a detailed description of each move and what I believe it's useful for.

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I'll put it in a list form for so it's easier to follow. Off hop: 1. Throw 2. hotaru 3. tsubaki 4. 2b/renka 5. hop again 6. 6A (frame trap) 7. 6B (anti poke) 1-5 are in no particular order, 6 and 7 are last because they should be used the least. Keep in mind hakumen has a great counter to everything. Problem is most of them only counter one specific thing, so you just need to be good at guessing. Pretty straight forward. Finish those, then work on your oki and feints. i think that's where hakumen's oki is extremely scary, because then everything looks almost exactly the same.

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haku's bigs problem is enemies tech on the ground. this is because of shoryuken and haku's lack of meaty attacks. As you all may or may not have noticed, haku's highest active framed attack is 4, JC. you play tager so this should be easy, learn some tech traps. when your opponent is on the ground contemplating weather to roll tech or not, throw 2B to pick them up off of the ground and make them tech in the air. off of 2B IAD and throw. it's my best tactic for those annoying wake up shorys and rolling opponents. B2 on a laying opponent also combos with 236A for wall bounce it works on everyone range or another and you can push someone into the corner.

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As long you have a move that's over 1 active frame, it can be used as a meaty (technically speaking 1 active frame is enough, but personally I'm not good enough at getting it every time). This is also where the feints come into play, they allow you to pace yourself into a good oki game, on top of being ambiguous.

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a good oki manipulater has the ability to oki on the first frame and gaurd in the next, this is why i love in air meaties and i use them at every turn, would have in gg but i played ky and baiken and May. ' GO ELECTRIC, SAMURAI DOLPHIN, DESTROY ALL WHO STAND AGAINST YOU.

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Ok first I would like to say after watching JackG play, HE IS FUCKING AWESOME!!!! I learned a whole lot from watching him play nu, still a tough match-up tho, but I picked up quite a bit form watching you play. Secondly is there any prior posts in this thread about mastering IB's? I'm currently trying to master doing this, but I am wondering is it best to learn this via mid-battle (and when I say mid battle I mean both offline and online play, I have REALLY good connection and can manage to IB against rachel occasionally)? Or is it better to try and learn to do so in training mode and set the comp to do certain block strings? EDIT: someone explain to me the humor in that "nigga said EX slayer" avatar, there's like 2 or 3 people with the same avatar I wanna be in on the joke:v:

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I haven't "mastered" IB but I"ve gotten better at it that's for sure. Some practice is to record some basic guard strings with nu (I used ragna) and just keep on IB'ing. Learn the "rhythm" at which they hit, and just tap black each time. Then I just took it online and did that whenever I had a gold or better connection. Red is acceptable but.. meh. After a while it just really becomes habit. If you want, I can play a few games with you just to help you IB, probably as nu or something. Oh and keep a list of things that are perfect for IB'ing. Multi-hit stuff like nu super, Nu's C attacks, Nu follow-ups... :v: Add me on psn~ oh and the first thing you notice after you start IB'ing a lot of things is the METER. You get sooo much more meter I love it :D

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You want to IB? stop playing online. That's the best way. Otherwise, the only thing that needs to be mentioned when practicing IB is that you should not focus solely on IB. Trying to IB all the time will make you get nailed by the most basics of frame traps/mixups because you are putting too much attention towards IB. Guess what moves/block strings may be coming, then decide if you should IB.

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You want to IB? stop playing online. That's the best way.

Otherwise, the only thing that needs to be mentioned when practicing IB is that you should not focus solely on IB. Trying to IB all the time will make you get nailed by the most basics of frame traps/mixups because you are putting too much attention towards IB. Guess what moves/block strings may be coming, then decide if you should IB.

Yeah, I was going to say that, I usually don't try to IB in a "real match" because I'd have to sit there and think about it, and then I'll just mess up. Like, I guess you have to just get so used to it that you can do it without thinking, but right now I can think of all the dozens of different attacks people can throw at you out of nowhere and then somehow you're supposed to instantly react to it and block at the exact frame. I could just block it normally, but trying to IB it means I'll most likely end up eating a combo I normally wouldn't. (Then again, I try to counter things all the time despite getting hit for it, so...)

So yeah. Offline probably helps.

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Truthfully I don't really think about it... I just tap back whenever I see the other do an attack lol. Which is probably why I'm not very good at IB punishing. I'll really focus on IB'ing when I should during real matches though, especially against carl, litchi, and ragna D:

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Mac chaos, you missed my point. To learn to IB you have to go through the stage where you are not experienced in reading moves/block strings. You can't just not do it because you fail at the beginning. Everyone at some point had to learn to IB through that method. You are going to screw up timings/reads/whatever, but that's part of the process. That's why winning the match generally does not matter. It's all about getting better, even if you have to lose in the process.

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That's why winning the match generally does not matter. It's all about getting better, even if you have to lose in the process.

That's sig worthy man. I love you. Say you love me back! :yaaay: (no homo)

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I'm learning to IB, myself. I think starting off with multi-hit supers is good, like Nu's or Bang's. Then maybe individual moves that hit a lot like Nu's C. Finally, IB'ing strings would probably be next. This does raise a question, though. Is it better to IB or to counter? No player I have gone against who is aware of Haku's counters will continue a block string, so IB'ing those is kind of dangerous, I find. Aside from that, would this mean Tsubaki might have a slight disadvantage with Haku since she's a "multi-hit" character? Lots of meter with her. :3

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Do blocking/IB/Catch depending on how sure you are about the next move that is coming. There isn't anything complicated about that. If you are sure of something that's coming, stick out the best counter, be it a catch, a throw, whatever. Otherwise, IB or just regular block. Again, it's simple. It just takes experience to be able to do it.

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