[CT] Hakumen Thread

[BladeOfJustice7]

Tnx ryoko, blunt as usual but honest which is what I like:yaaay: Is it advisable to IB and then go for counters or should I just wait to punish on recovery? I personally like countering in the middle of IB's on block strings but I personally don't see pro hakumen players do so:eng101: As for my ps3 account, this is my friends account and ever since getting into University coupled with a part time job I don't have much time to head there, words of advice Miso sicne ur the youngest don't work and go to uni:8/:.... SO you are free to add him but be ready for the opposite of my fighting style which is a VERY aggressive ragna player. Be VERY careful against him with all I put him through he sees counters coming from a mile away:keke:

[MisoSowee]

and words have been heeded~ :P EDIT: fail reading.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Blade do you even have BB for ps3?

and words have been heeded~ :P

Well my friend Saido Shiro (that's his alias) he has BB. So when I get the chance to head there we could play I'm EST just so you know I'm guessing you're PST no?

But I myself own BB on the 360, remember how you said all the fairly good hakumen users are on the xbl, I'M ONE OF THEM:eng101:

[MisoSowee]

ooohh. I will await~ I'm available on weekdays from 1:30-11:00 pm PST, sometimes 4:00 to 11:00 weekends I'm usually free all day :P I will CRUSH YOU!!! hopefully. :D

[ryokoalways]

bladeofjustice, that's also part of the guessing what's coming. It's the same thing. There isn't a it's better to IB and punish recovery, or it's better to IB and catch. It depends on what your opponent is doing. If you think he is going through a block string, then you IB and catch. If you think he is going to stop during a block string, or jump, or frame trap, etc, to bait your catch, then you counter with poke, throw, etc, depending on what you guessed right. And if you are just not sure, then you block. The reason JP players don't just reversal (be it a dp, or catch, or whatever) every time they IB (and they do it often) is precisely because the other player is baiting for it. It's no different than any other baits. You have to get the "there is a best way to do something all the time" out of your head. There is no such thing. Fighting game is built around improvising.

[BladeOfJustice7]

bladeofjustice, that's also part of the guessing what's coming. It's the same thing.

There isn't a it's better to IB and punish recovery, or it's better to IB and catch. It depends on what your opponent is doing.

If you think he is going through a block string, then you IB and catch.

If you think he is going to stop during a block string, or jump, or frame trap, etc, to bait your catch, then you counter with poke, throw, etc, depending on what you guessed right.

And if you are just not sure, then you block.

The reason JP players don't just reversal (be it a dp, or catch, or whatever) every time they IB (and they do it often) is precisely because the other player is baiting for it. It's no different than any other baits.

You have to get the "there is a best way to do something all the time" out of your head. There is no such thing. Fighting game is built around improvising.

Good point since I would bait my friend's dp's with ragna and either counter or punish based on how sure I am of the dp. Thanks once again ryoko:yaaay:

[JackG]

The thing with countering blockstrings with D moves is that there is always a risk/reward attached to it. Sure, while you CAN IB Jin's 5B and counter 5C (which yes, IBing is that good that you can create a hole between 5B and 5C.) And sure, if your opponent gets predictable you can reliably counter what they are throwing out, but people tend to learn. Letting your opponent KNOW you have the capability to counter at any point is really the biggest advantage of having counters. It's the same as DP characters (dragonpunch) in that they CAN DP character's pressure strings, presumably the damage you'd take if you missed/had it blocked is a lot more than if you simply hit with it. As such you wouldn't expect to use it nearly as much, because the risk/reward would dictate you wouldn't use it that much. However, using it every now and then gives your opponent the knowledge that you can and will use it to your advantage, and theoretically they would adjust their game plan to be less aggressive. Then again they might not adapt, in which case continue DPing/countering. Other than that, I really only use counters on reaction for surefire results (such as overheads, counter oki projectiles/Nu's super/Litchi's 13 Orphan super) And Yeah, IBing is super important. Learn it, as it will both fuel your bar with much needed magatama as well as provide ins against zoners (IBing Nu's swords for movement) as well as making moves punishable either by hitting them or countering their next move. Any way you slice it, IB is essential to any character's game, especially Hakumen.

[sogos]

hey nice avatar JackG

[mAc Chaos]

Gold Hakumen? Excellent.

[Sophisticat]

Don't mind if I borrow.

[MisoSowee]

You might be killed for that.

[ryokoalways]

So uh... I did this on accident when screwing around today. Apparently you can jump cancel cancel enma. What I mean is that you can enma, then either have a jump install input or quick tap, then kishuu again during jump startup. Then it would seem like you did kishuu > enma > kishuu, which is normally not possible. It's a pretty good frametrap/gimmick.

[4r5]

ut oh, FUC-cancels. As long as I don't have to do any rainbow motions, I can deal

[mAc Chaos]

Hmm, that sounds interesting, I'll have to try it out. What kind of thing could you do with Kishuu > enma > kishuu? I assume if you're going to do Enma, you're right next to them, in which case Kishuu would just have you dash in place right in front of them... easy to get counterhit or grabbed. Unless the followup can hit them before they hit you... But that would take four stars...

[JackG]

That's a great find ryoko, I love FUC and the whole jump-cancel special thing (which to this point it only looked like Bang employed) pressure of 236A >623A~A >2369A > 623A~A works. Apparently when you do the second 236A (as in from the jump cancel off of his 623A~A) it resets his specials used, so you can go right into enma again. Seems like a good idea to blow tension if you are going for guardbreak or something. NOTE: You can also do (with 8 magatama) 41236C> 623A~A > 412369C for double overhead. Pretty lols, plus builds guard libra like MAD

[MadRhetoric]

its just a gimmick no sense in poking holes in it just take it for what it is. but normally after an enma on block they're going to attack and assume you'll jump/ad away or sometimes j.C so if you kishuu under their attack (or if they just block high) and you 2B or throw you'll get them so it seems like a pretty good trap to me. It seems like a decent way of turning a bad hit-confirm around back into your favor.

[Spark]

What I mean is that you can enma, then either have a jump install input or quick tap, then kishuu again during jump startup. Then it would seem like you did kishuu > enma > kishuu, which is normally not possible.

It's a pretty good frametrap/gimmick.

Hmm so the jump resets the thing that keeps track of which specials you've used. I'm guessing this means that you can also do 214B -> 623AA j.cc(jump cancel cancel) -> 214B?

If so, I think this would make Mugen a bit more useful against characters with out reversals. Seeing as how you would be able to keeping chaining into your specials forever like 236A -> 41236C -> 214B -> 623AA j.cc -> repeat or whatever.

[4r5]

214B -> 623AA j.cc(jump cancel cancel) -> 214B

214B>623AA>fuc.214B

[ryokoalways]

I call it a gimmick because you have to blow a crap load of meter to get not much damage. It's something saved for when you are going for the win. enma cancel into renka/ zantetsu are great if you just need that last hit. Will be hard to see because no one is conditioned to react to mixups after enma, especially if you purposely blow renka before you go into enma, then the player will block high at all times because they assume you don't have a low anymore.

[MisoSowee]

I can see a whole branch of mugen guard crush/mix-ups coming out now.... and here I thought I would be fine with BB because of easier input xD

[ryokoalways]

Something else that I thought was interesting, credit to a friend in Japan. Against characters that can be hit by 5D >gurren (so, people like Jin, ragna, etc), if you delay the gurren by a few frames, the following works, anywhere on the stage. 5D > (slight delay) gurren > IAD (delay) jC > 5A > jA > jB > j2C. About 3.6k damage and recovers 1 magatama, so no magatama spent for 3.6k damage. I thought that was pretty cool.

[Sophisticat]

Nice find, but I'm wondering what are the stats on it. Can you delay it or is there strict timing? Does this only apply to enma or can other specials do it too? I don't have my Ps3 with me, so I can't test it out.

About 3.6k damage and recovers 1 magatama, so no magatama spent for 3.6k damage. I thought that was pretty cool.

Now that's useful. Sounds like it could become Haku's best meterless option outside of an air throw. More opportunities to land it, too. Awesome.

[4r5]

if this is anything like every other game that has fuc-cancels, then this is just a general system rule/glitch, not character-specific. But since most everything in BB that is cancelable is, both, special and jump cancelable, this glitch isn't needed much. Like who else has a move that's jump but not special cancelable? Bang? lol, low-tier glitch

[ryokoalways]

Only works with enma because you need something that can be jump cancelled, and enma is the only special that can be jump cancelled. I think that's what you were asking? The timing isn't strict. You have plenty of time because enma's cancel window is enormous. And since most hakumen specials can be tked, jump install isn't your only option (the only potential limitation on the cancel).

[MisoSowee]

Hmm for the combo you mentioned off 2d, I'm having trouble getting the j.C out. By the time it starts up they're already teching o_O Is there someone in a vid who used it? Video reference might help me :O