[CT] Hakumen Thread

[MisoSowee]

The literal translation of the Japanese name is "Void Space Formation: Dream".

[mAc Chaos]

Oh, I see there was some confusion. I'm not talking about what it says on the command list; I'm talking about what Hakumen actually says when you activate the move. I know he doesn't say what's on the command list when he says it in English, so I was wondering if the same as true when he says it in Japanese.

[Brotrr]

No, you're the one getting confused. What he says in Japanese is exactly what the move is called, as in the English version. Same thing goes for all his other specials. He yells out their names.

[rtl42]

... and while we're completely out in left field talking about Hakumen's technique names, i wanted to mention that "kokuu" (虚空) could be a reference to a Boddhisattva which is known in Japanese as Kokuuzou Bosatsu:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akasagarbha

so it might be a bit of a stretch, but since Hakumen is samurai-ish, i thought there could be a loose connection between "Kokuu-jin" and Kokuuzou, and if so, then as the above article says, the "void" part of "Kokuuzou" represents "boundless space". So "Kokuu-jin" could be the "void camp" or the "boundless space / infinity camp", or just "The Void" as a proper name.

(just my two cents.)

[mAc Chaos]

No, you're the one getting confused. What he says in Japanese is exactly what the move is called, as in the English version. Same thing goes for all his other specials. He yells out their names.

o snap time to break out the vids

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt4_1oKmMjc#t=1m43s

He says THE FINAL JUDGEMENT: INFINITY which I know isn't what it says on his command list. :P His command list says "Retribution: Infinity."

[okeranpa]

oohh.... hot damn, i'm learning a lot of stuff here.... keep it up!

[rtl42]

wtf Retribution?

in Japanese, the move name is 虚空陣奥義 夢幻 (KOKUU-JIN OUGI MUGEN); in-game, when Hakumen speaks in JAPANIZU, he says: "KOKUU-JIN OUGI... MUGEN!" ("rawr" in CS)

btw, I realized that since CS isn't available to everyone in the US yet (right? ?__?), some people might have some questions about Hakumen, but won't be able to test stuff out by themselves. However, since I'm living in Tokyo and there's an arcade nearby with CS, I thought that maybe I could volunteer to try to answer some questions by testing stuff out, when I get the chance.

Now I can't promise that I'll be able to answer everything, since I'm actually not quite so familiar with the system compared to some of you guys (lol see some of my recent posts to see why...), but anyways, I thought I'd put it out there, just to try to help out a bit.

[MisoSowee]

I was wondering about this special proration I heard about on using the same move over and over (J.2c) can you still get 4k+ off of hotaru/tsubaki/renka?

Also I was just wondering that because of the increased meter gain for hitting an opponent, would it be smarter to go for the less damaging but longer corner j.2c loops?

likkeee most damage off of 623a~a is (as far as I know)

623a~a - j.C - 2c - j.2c - j.2c - AD - j.2c - j.2c

a longer combo would be

623a~a - j.2c - j.2c - AD - j.2c - J.C - 2c - j.2c - AD - j.2c - j.2c

please with lots of love?

I'm mostly interested in the meter gain for the longer combo vs the shorter combo, the damage I'm not TOO worried about. Thankies in advance if you're able to, and thankies even if you can't for Japanese insight :P

[qwerty]

try 6A'ing through a fireball or something to see if they changed the invul attributes on it. ryoko's been saying it's not head attribute invul anymore and rather is gg-style upper body invul. if you can 6A through a projectile, that solves the mystery once and for all.

[JackG]

please with lots of love?

I'm mostly interested in the meter gain for the longer combo vs the shorter combo, the damage I'm not TOO worried about. Thankies in advance if you're able to, and thankies even if you can't for Japanese insight :P

The special proration they might be referring to is Hakumen's combo rate. In BB, every character has a flat percentage that affect how much each combo hit does in succession (factored in individual move prorations, etc). In CT, Hakumen has the lowest at 80%. In a sense. What I believe others are trying to say is that a few high-damage moves will often do more damage than a large multi-hit corner combo. For example, compare the damage of:

214B (1) > 41236C > 5C anywhere

versus

corner throw: 214B> 2C> j.2C > j.C > 2C> superjump j.2C> airdash j.2C > J.2C.

I dont remember exactly, but I believe they both do pretty close to the same damage despite the second one requiring particular spacing and control to pull off the whole combo, and the first only being 3 hits anywhere on the screen. j.2C has a p2 combo value of 75%, which isn't bad, but combined with his flat 80% combo rate makes it scale real fast. The main advantage to the j.2C loops is that the damage is tensionless.

[rtl42]

doesn't j.2A in CS have the same attack animation as j.2C in CT? like i can basically make sense of what combo you guys are referring to, but at the same time, perhaps you're really referring to the new j.C and j.2C in CS (in which case that's not a valid combo to my knowledge!), so I just want to make sure we're on the same page, here. qwerty: it's on my little notepad, so i'll try it out next time i fight someone with fireballs

[okeranpa]

say, where talking about hakumen's attack names.... can anyone tell me the other moves' translations? would be nice to go beyond "guren=crimson" (the only one i know)

[rtl42]

edit: no you know what, this is too long without being broken up, i'll just make a "tl;dr" version at first, then list the translation discussion afterwards.

Short version

Sword name

斬魔・鳴神 (zanma: ookami) = devil slash: roaring spirit

Drive

斬神 (zanshin) = spirit slash

Specials

紅蓮 (guren) = crimson; crimson lotus flower

蓮華 (renka) = lotus flower

残鉄 (zantetsu) = [lit.] remaining iron (???)

鬼蹴 (kishuu) = demon-kick

閻魔 (enma) = Enma (the name of the Lord of the Realm of the Dead in Japanese Buddhism)

火蛍 (hotaru) = firefly, [lit.] flaming firefly

椿祈 (tsubaki) = camellia, [lit.] camellia prayer

Overdrive names

虚空陣 (kokuujin) = [lit.] void space camp

... 疾風 (shippuu) = [lit.] swift wind

... 雪風 (yukikaze) = [lit.] snow-bearing wind

... 夢幻 (mugen) = illusion, phantasm

... 悪滅 (akumetsu) = evil's ruin, destruction/annihilation of evil.

[MadRhetoric]

Thanks for the post, I think translations are interesting. One thing though, I've ready many times before that Haku-men's sword was named Zanma: Okami, however with the same translation. Is it just different readings of the the same kanji or something? Also I've got a good deal of experience in translations myself, especially poetry, so since you provided the literal meaning I thought I'd just give my 2 cents on what I think sounds the best to me. Forgive me if I stray too much from the original words but in my eyes this a lot like poetry, you're trying to evoke a specific image or emotion in a few choice words. I think "Devil Killer: Howling God" sounds best for his sword. Maybe because "Vampire Killer" from Castlevania is stuck deep in my head from my childhood but I think its a good manly, stoic name for a hero's weapon to emphasize the killing aspect of the weapon with a simple word. Maybe something like slayer or slasher would be better but I like killer. Howling sticks a bit closer to the original "cry out" you mentioned than roar does, and it also evokes his fox/wolf symbol. God is just a more powerful word than spirit, so I thought it fit better (since it seems to me the two are interchangeable to some extent to the Japanese). For zantetsu I think "Remaining Steel" works great, in the right context. Steel cutting slash is also a powerful image but I think they did intend "remaining iron/steel" and here's why: Haku-men is an ancient hero with unfathomable power but in CT when he comes back from the void he can use hardly any of it. Since zantetsu is his most powerful non-distortion attack it makes sense to think of it a remnant of his ancient power, with iron/steel used as a synecdoche for sword, and with sword being a metaphor for power. As for kokuujin, I'm really not sure what was meant by the original words, but would something like "field" work better than "camp"? In English field is often used referring to an abstract area, like magnetic field, electric field, vector field, etc. So maybe "Void Space Field"? As for Shippu and Yukikaze I think "Hurricane" and "Snowstorm" work best to get across Haku-men's power.

[rtl42]

yeah i was unable to find an official reading of his sword name, so i just used standard on'yomi since it's a 2-kanji word. But now that I looked again, I found the article for Hakumen on a Japanese fighting game wiki, and it agrees with your reading of "ookami", so i'll edit that in my above post. and you're right, this usage of Japanese is a kind of "warrior poetry", almost. 陣 (jin) isn't "field" like what you're thinking; in Japanese, that kind of geometric or physical field is 場 (ba). 陣, itself, means "battle formation; camp, encampment", and when it's combined with other words, it's always used to refer to members of a group or squad in a kind of (battle) formation, if i understand correctly (although there are figurative uses of this word that don't strictly adhere to that image, i think). for example, if you say 円陣, it means "(a) circle, ring", with the nuance that it has been formed by a group for the purpose of offense/defense. but it's not *only* used for battle purposes: 教授陣 (kyouju-jin) means "faculty" (of professors, like at a university). but it differs from just 教授 because it has the idea of a kind of "line-up". then again, maybe it's a reference to a kind of "base"/headquarters? not that i can think of *why*, but i guess if you have the right story-mode info, it could work... also, just to make it a bit more complicated, the word 魔法陣 (mahoujin), in Japanese fantasy fiction, means "magic grid/matrix/circle", like what we would think of in Western fantasy fiction as a protection/warding/summoning circle that a magic-user could create and use. So here, 陣 is being used to sort of instantiate the idea of "a (geometric) formation of magic" -- so in that sense, 虚空陣 could be like "The Void Circle", or "The Void Grid" or "The Void Matrix" lol. Well, idk, I think void matrix sounds funny, as a math student, but I guess it could work in fantasy fiction.

[Blade]

Can anyone tell me the significance of those Brush Strokes that appear when he kicks, either Renka or Hotaru?

[Sophisticat]

I've always assumed it was to define an otherwise ambiguous motion. It just clarifies the animation's function and allows to set an arbitrary length to the hitbox beyond what non-brushstroke would physically "allow", so to speak, while still looking cool. I don't think there's any deeper meaning to it than that.

[Blade]

My guess was they were "core brushstrokes" in some important kanji....oh well.

[okeranpa]

WHOOAAAHH!!! amazing! thanks! i'm blown away like i was hit by a charged shippuu or something...

[Brotrr]

The brush strokes were honestly probably only supposed to look good and define his special moves from his normal moves. That's about it.

[Sophisticat]

I'm having trouble with runaways recently. FRKZ Bangs, scrub Jins who use DP then flee, Rachel wind users, etc. Haku is quite disadvantaged once they have a lead of sorts. So far, all I can use is mind games or a lucky hit if they're not blocking. But are there any strategies I'm unaware of? It's quite frustrating to go up against this type of player.

[MisoSowee]

Best bet is to just read 'em and get in through that. Not that it's always easy but is anything easy? XD FRKZ Bang can be hard to read though because he's so random, but if he's near remember he can't block (if he's not careful) so throwing out random a's and hotaru when he's close is a surefire way to get a combo in. But if he's running away there's not too much you can do :\ against the Jins it shouldn't be that bad if they're scrubs. Just get in and don't get hit by DP :P vs Rachel can be tricky, but remember her pattern is predictable and can be overdone with a SJ air dash (usually) or 623a.

[ryokoalways]

I don't know what to do against furinkazan, but rachel and Jin is basically walk towards them and IB everything along the way. By the time you reach them you should have a high magatama count and just unload. Although a video would probably help point out what you are doing wrong. It's not that easy to run away from hakumen.

[MisoSowee]

Make sure not to get yourself primed for a guard crush as you get in on rachel though. I know a guy who did that to me and it was cruel :[

[Sophisticat]

Alright, I'll put up a vid when I run into another. I've also started IB'ing stuff just two weeks ago, and it's proving tricky (especially online) not to suddenly stop blocking and get myself punished. It does work quite well against Rachel, though. As for scrub Jins, well, I say they're scrubs, but they're the kind of scrub that's mastered being one if you know what I mean. They know your effective range, DP you at the right moment, shoot swords from afar, and run away with ice car. I can punish well enough once in, but getting can be costly.