[P4AU] Rise Combo Thread Updated 8/1/15

[Complexity]

After using the 236cd dash 5c 22b route more, I really think that this is the route that everyone should be defaulting to instead of the 236cd 5c 214b route.

1) Combo is a lot more stable. The 22a j.b j.d part in the 214b route sometimes randomly drops depending on starter.

2) Similar or more damage.

3) Lets you choose to end with either j.2b or 214a.

4) Works off any starter except throw, if there were more than two 2a before the 2ab 236cd or if you do some crazy long string like j.b j.a 2a 5aa 2b 5b 2ab 236cd.

5) You have a small chance of ending with scan and note oki midscreen.

Thanks Celerity for the combo route.

[Justice7541]

What's the shortest starter you can do that combo with and still get sweep > note oki?  I really can't live without my note oki.

[Loli Bacon]

Corner:

5AA > 2B > 5B > 2A+B > 236A+B > 2B(1) > 22A > 236A > 214214C+D

About 6100 damage for 100 meter.

[pulsr]

Excessively long combo?

 

Corner - A, A, 5C, 22A, 236A, 2C, 2D, 214A (has to detonate the lowest note without the note hitting the enemy) 5AAA, 214A? 

 

That's the combo I'm currently playing around witih.

[Justice7541]

So I found this while I was messing around today, and it seems like it could solve some of our corner carry problems:

 

(2B) > 5B > 2AB > 236CD > dash 5AA > 5C(1) > 22B > 214A > dash 2C > dash 5AA > 2AB > 236B - 3061 + note oki

 

The trick here is that you need to delay the 214A just enough to bypass the first hit of lightning, so they land in the middle, near the ground. This gives about 50% corner carry if done correctly, and if you want, you can also just end with 214A > 236236B for about 4.5k and 80% carry. You can also side switch from the initial 5AA if you're close enough.

 

Even if you mess it up, you can still finish with an air ender, or something like 5C > 214A, depending on how high you put them.

 

Well I was trying this and it's a pretty good route in theory, but:

 

1) I can't get 5AA 5C to combo.  Microdash 5C instead works but it makes the height slightly more variable.

2) The dash 2C is super finicky about how they bounce.  Sometimes 5A whiffs entirely, sometimes they don't bounce high enough for sweep to hit, sometimes 5AA actually crosses under them.

 

So it's kind of not a very stable route despite high damage, good corner carry, and strong oki.

 

I'm also really liking midcombo scans into notes so I'm thinking that when that's possible, it beats any other option just on account of all the silly stuff you can do with that particular setup.

[Complexity]

After using the 236cd dash 5c 22b route more, I really think that this is the route that everyone should be defaulting to instead of the 236cd 5c 214b route.

1) Combo is a lot more stable. The 22a j.b j.d part in the 214b route sometimes randomly drops depending on starter.

2) Similar or more damage.

3) Lets you choose to end with either j.2b or 214a.

4) Works off any starter except throw, if there were more than two 2a before the 2ab 236cd or if you do some crazy long string like j.b j.a 2a 5aa 2b 5b 2ab 236cd.

5) You have a small chance of ending with scan and note oki midscreen.

Thanks Celerity for the combo route.

Forgot to post the combo.

xx 2ab 236cd dash 5c 22b slight delay 214a dash 2c 5d (214a/j.2b/if your luck is good 5aa 2ab 236b)

Part in brackets is your choice of ender. You need your 22b to hit at the lowest possible height to end with note oki (if you are lucky enough to get it, if not 5aa won't combo). If you get 5aa to hit you can also go into the almost 100% corner carry route I posted above.

If you are going for a UB setup, consider ending with 214b which puts them in an air tech state pretty close to you.

[Celerity]

Well I was trying this and it's a pretty good route in theory, but:

 

1) I can't get 5AA 5C to combo.  Microdash 5C instead works but it makes the height slightly more variable.

2) The dash 2C is super finicky about how they bounce.  Sometimes 5A whiffs entirely, sometimes they don't bounce high enough for sweep to hit, sometimes 5AA actually crosses under them.

 

So it's kind of not a very stable route despite high damage, good corner carry, and strong oki.

 

I'm also really liking midcombo scans into notes so I'm thinking that when that's possible, it beats any other option just on account of all the silly stuff you can do with that particular setup.

 

After sweep > 236CD, 5AA > 5C works from further out than raw 5C, in my experience. If you can get microdash 5C down, that's even better.

 

I managed to do this combo ~50% of the time, and got it 3 times in a row before I posted it, so I'm pretty sure it's a stable route as long as you're close enough. If the 2C part is wonky, you can always just omit that, but I never ran into that issue.

 

I agree that the note+scan setup is good/better in some ways, but it does seem to be very distance-specific and more difficult in execution for me personally.

[Celerity]

What are you guys doing from DP? Right now I'm just using Orbs > 66 5AA > 5C(orb) > 5B > (orb hits) > 214A because it's simple, but I know lots of other things are possible, I just can't get them consistent yet.

 

Orbs > (all orbs hit) > 5AA > 2AB > 236B works, as does Orbs > (all orbs hit) > 5C > 2C/22AB. But timing all of the orb hits to keep them low is proving difficult.

[Justice7541]

After sweep > 236CD, 5AA > 5C works from further out than raw 5C, in my experience. If you can get microdash 5C down, that's even better.

I managed to do this combo ~50% of the time, and got it 3 times in a row before I posted it, so I'm pretty sure it's a stable route as long as you're close enough. If the 2C part is wonky, you can always just omit that, but I never ran into that issue.

I agree that the note+scan setup is good/better in some ways, but it does seem to be very distance-specific and more difficult in execution for me personally.

It's not the difficulty in execution so much as it is the fact that to ensure that you land note oki you need to get the timing and spacing on both the 214a and the dash 2c just right, and that's super hard to do consistently. Compare that to the scan/note combo which has annoying microdash links and you also have to time your 5C 5D properly, but at least in that case it's just a matter of hitting the link with the right timing. In this case it's much more inconsistent since there's so many more ways you can botch it. Which I guess is technically an execution thing as well although in a more abstract sense.

[Celerity]

It's not the difficulty in execution so much as it is the fact that to ensure that you land note oki you need to get the timing and spacing on both the 214a and the dash 2c just right, and that's super hard to do consistently. Compare that to the scan/note combo which has annoying microdash links and you also have to time your 5C 5D properly, but at least in that case it's just a matter of hitting the link with the right timing. In this case it's much more inconsistent since there's so many more ways you can botch it. Which I guess is technically an execution thing as well although in a more abstract sense.

 

I grinded this route for some more time today. I got it consistent from most starters, so I think it's perfectly fine. Here are some notes.

 

-From point blank 5AA, 2A, 2B, or an air starter where you can dash 5AA, you can go straight into 2AB > 236CD > dash 5C(1) > 22B > 214A > dash 5AA > 2AB and it requires no timing, just do everything as fast as possible. These are probably the most practical starters for this route.

 

-From longer range 2B > 5B or 5B confirms, you need to do 2AB > 236CD > dash 5AA > 5C(1) > 22B > slight delay 214A > dash 2C > dash 5AA > 2AB. The reason 2C is required here is because the delay on 214A means lightning won't keep them in place for long enough to combo 5AA into sweep. This is more difficult, but I was still able to get it consistent up to about max 2B(1) distance.

 

-From max range 5AA or 2A, you can go into 5B > 2AB > 236CD > dash 5C(1) > 22B > medium delay 214A > 2C > dash 5AA > 2AB. No dash before 2C here, and you need to time the sweep to hit right after the final hit of 2C. I would not recommend using the route from these starters, as it was very picky about the exact distance.

 

TLDR:

 

(j.B > j.A > dash 5AA) or (point blank 2A, 5AA, 2B) > 2AB > 236CD > dash 5C(1) > 22B > 214A > dash 5AA > 2AB - recommended, no timing required

(max range 2B > 5B) or (mid-range 5B) > 2AB > 236CD > dash 5AA > 5C(1) > 22B > slight delay 214A >  dash 2C > dash 5AA > 2AB - recommended, consistent but tricky

(max range 2A > 5AA or 5AA) > 2AB > 236CD > dash 5C(1) > 22B > medium delay 214A > 2C > dash 5AA > 2AB - not recommended but doable

 

Worth noting I've only tested this route on Aigis, Rise, and Yosuke so far. I know some characters might have weird air hitboxes that would change the timing significantly.

[Justice7541]

I'll try it by dropping the 2C. That was really the most finicky part of the combo for me although I'm not 100% convinced that 5AA will combo right off 214A since I seem to remember that 2C was necessary specifically because it allowed the opponent time to drop a bit further after the lightning shock and be juggled by the spinning bit.

I wonder if it's possible to fit a scan in there somehow. It'd be the perfect route if you could.

[Celerity]

I'll try it by dropping the 2C. That was really the most finicky part of the combo for me although I'm not 100% convinced that 5AA will combo right off 214A since I seem to remember that 2C was necessary specifically because it allowed the opponent time to drop a bit further after the lightning shock and be juggled by the spinning bit.

I wonder if it's possible to fit a scan in there somehow. It'd be the perfect route if you could.

 

It is, after 214A, but you won't be able to get a knockdown from it. The most I was ever able to get afterwards is a j.B or 5B and then they tech. Maybe can get 5AA, but sweep won't combo.

[Complexity]

Forgot to post the combo.

xx 2ab 236cd dash 5c 22b slight delay 214a dash 2c 5d (214a/j.2b/if your luck is good 5aa 2ab 236b)

Part in brackets is your choice of ender. You need your 22b to hit at the lowest possible height to end with note oki (if you are lucky enough to get it, if not 5aa won't combo). If you get 5aa to hit you can also go into the almost 100% corner carry route I posted above.

If you are going for a UB setup, consider ending with 214b which puts them in an air tech state pretty close to you.

Guess I'll quote myself.

[Tecta1Eastside]

Dp punishes

Midscreen

Ch 5c(2) > 214b > 2b(1) > 5c(2) > 214b > 5aa > 5c(2) > 214b > 5aaa > 214a > 236236b

DMG 5321 builds 48sp without the super. 880 less damage too

Corner standing opponent

Ch 5c(2) > 5b > 2b > 5c > 22a > sweep > 236a > 2b(1) > mjc j.b > j.236c > 5aaa > 214a > 236236b

DMG 5421 builds 47sp without the super. 880 less damage too

[Loli Bacon]

Dp punishes

Midscreen

Ch 5c(2) > 214b > 2b(1) > 5c(2) > 214b > 5aa > 5c(2) > 214b > 5aaa > 214a > 236236b

DMG 5321 builds 48sp without the super. 880 less damage too

Corner standing opponent

Ch 5c(2) > 5b > 2b > 5c > 22a > sweep > 236a > 2b(1) > mjc j.b > j.236c > 5aaa > 214a > 236236b

DMG 5421 builds 47sp without the super. 880 less damage too

22A isn't universal, unfortunately. =/

[Tecta1Eastside]

I've gotten that corner bnb to work on the entire cast.

You have to adjust your timing for some characters but it works on everyone.

Edit: I made a mistake when I wrote the bnb.

Ch 5c(2) > 5b > 2b > 5c(2) > 22a > sweep > 236a > 2b(1) > mjc j.b > j.236c > 5aaa > 214a > 236236b

Both 5c's have 2 hits not 1. I got this to work on everyone though

If you're having issues with 5c(2) > 22a then delay your 22a.

This makes it easier to do 22a routes on characters like rise/yukiko etc.

Doesn't work on crouching opponents.

[Justice7541]

How are you getting 22A to work on crouch/vs. skinny characters like Rise, Minazuki, etc.?

[Celerity]

 

Dp punishes

Midscreen
Ch 5c(2) > 214b > 2b(1) > 5c(2) > 214b > 5aa > 5c(2) > 214b > 5aaa > 214a > 236236b
DMG 5321 builds 48sp without the super. 880 less damage too

 

We're talking FC punish, yes?

 

You can actually juggle with 2B(2) twice, but you have to be careful about how high you're putting them when they get close to the corner. If they get too close, you have to either take the side switch by making them go higher, or cut the combo short with an early 22A extension.

 

FC 5C(2) > 214B > 2B(2) > 5C(2) > 214B > 2B(2) > 5C(2) > 214B > 5AA > 5C(1) > 22A > 5C(1) > 214A > 236236B is 5670

 

 

How are you getting 22A to work on crouch/vs. skinny characters like Rise, Minazuki, etc.?

 

 

5C(2) > 22A works on everyone, it's 5C(1) > 22A that's character specific, and for most corner scan routes etc you need to do the lightning as early as possible.

[Justice7541]

That's actually really good.  That means 5AA 5B 5C delay 22A 2A+B 236B 2B(1) 22A 5C 5D 214A is a legit combo for 3k, scan, and note oki all at once for absolutely no meter cost.  Also double lightning looks super troll.

 

Also this is kinda funny:

 

VS standing as Shadow Rise:

5AA 5B 5C delay 22A 2A+B 236B 2B hop j.B j.236C land 5AAA 214A > Rampage > 236236C+D 236236B (mash C to detonate orbiters during slap animation) OMC 214214C+D (5.7k)

 

Not the best damage for a Shadow Rampage combo but it's unburstable and the best part is the pre-Rampage part builds stupid amounts of meter (70 off 5A) so you can do it off pretty much any corner standing hit.

 

You can get a similar effect off any other confirm anywhere that can end in 5AAA 214A although you probably won't build quite as much meter (5AAA 214A gives like 40 meter by itself though).  If the pre-Rampage part is shorter you can do Rampage > 236236C+D dash 214B 214A, 214B 214A 236236B OMC 214214C+D to pad the damage a bit and you'll pretty much always end up around the 5.7k mark with a perfect SB Risette Live.

[Tecta1Eastside]

I saw this on jbbs.

J.b > 5a > 5b > omb > 5c(2) > 22b > 214a > 22b hits > 66 214214cd 7000 to 7100 dmg

I tried testing it midscreen.

You have delay 5c alot after omb to get 22b > 214a > 22b hits into 66 214214cd to connect consistently.

You can use this route from a 5a starter into high damage also.

[Celerity]

Why do you need the burst? Does it not work from the standard midscreen 236CD > 5C > 22B > 214A? I haven't tried yet.

[Tecta1Eastside]

I haven't tried it without the burst yet either.

It should work with crouching/anti-air bnbs or with 236cd.

[haotshy]

 

We're talking FC punish, yes?

 

It works on counter hit, but is quite a bit more difficult than with fatal counter. I think you have to delay the 214B after the 5C (2)'s as much as possible? I'm not really entirely sure since I haven't been able to get it consistently yet.

[Justice7541]

I haven't tried it without the burst yet either.

It should work with crouching/anti-air bnbs or with 236cd.

 

The damage is considerably worse without the OMB bonus proration, it drops down to like 5.2k if you do something like 5aa 2a+b 236c+d dash 5c(1) 22b 214a dash 214214c+d.  That's especially true if you get a crouch confirm or something and can just end in 5aaa 214a 236236b for the autocombo meter build to almost break even and still get like 4k.

[Effenhoog]

That's actually really good.  That means 5AA 5B 5C delay 22A 2A+B 236B 2B(1) 22A 5C 5D 214A is a legit combo for 3k, scan, and note oki all at once for absolutely no meter cost.

 

This doesn't seem to work on Labrys or Shadow Labrys.  5C 22A/B doesn't seem to work on her at all unless you are point blank and just hit with raw 5C, cancelling from any other normals just seems to push you too far away and the 22A/B whiffs