[P4AU] Ken Amada Okizeme/Mixups/Gimmicks Thread (Updated 09/09/2014)

[VR-Raiden]

• This thread exists to gather and discuss any ways to hit people in pressure or after knockdowns, so they aren't lost in the clutter of Gameplay Discussion.

• If you have okizeme, mixups, or gimmicks, share them in here with an explanation of how/why it can work.

• It helps to share how the opponent can avoid it as well.

• This post will be updated to compile all useful info.

Gigantic Impact A > meaty Getsu-ei C Okizeme

Collapsed: 236A/B->A > meaty 214C oki:

Summary

- Combo to 236A/B->A, input 214C quickly, dash jump while blocking, come down on the opponent with high/low/delay airdash mixup.

Details

- Koromaru must be available for use at the proper spacing to execute this oki effectively. Example combos for setting this up correctly are listed below.

- 214C should connect on the frame the opponent wakes up (meaty) after immediate teching. Opponents inputting Evasive Action will be hit out of it, and opponents holding upback will be hit grounded out of jump startup.

- 214C can only be avoided by delaying the absolute maximum amount before teching, which may be difficult to time consistently.

- 214C will still be meaty if the opponent delays too long and the automatic late wake-up starts.

- If the opponent immediate techs into a reversal, you will block it in the air from your dash jump.

- Following this oki, you are unable to use Koromaru for a brief period of time if they blocked 214C, so that must be taken into account for pressure and combos.

Options

- Dash jump deep j.A/j.B/j.2B

High. No gap after blocked 214C. j.B is the strongest starter, but susceptible to techs into reversals since you must start it higher in air. j.A is easiest to make safe. All are susceptible to slight delay tech into reversal.

- Dash jump j.A(2)

High for 2 hits. No gap after blocked 214C. j.A done high enough will allow the second hit to come out for a second high hit. Susceptible to immediate or slight delay tech into reversal.

- Dash jump j.A(1) > j.B(land cancel) > 2A

High for 1 hit then low. Gap after blocked j.A(1). Should be done at a height where j.A(2) would connect to trick the opponent into thinking a second high hit is coming. Susceptible to immediate or slight delay tech into reversal, and reversal after blocked j.A(1).

- Dash jump land 2A

Low. No gap after blocked 214C with perfect timing. Land cancelling a j.B/j.2B can make it potentially trickier. Susceptible to max delay tech into reversal.

- Dash jump land 2B

Low. Gap after blocked 214C. Slower than 2A so it gives more time to react or reversal, but more reward on hit. Land cancelling a j.B/j.2B can make it potentially trickier. Susceptible to max delay tech into reversal, and reversal after blocked 214C.

- Dash jump close-to-ground airdash j.A/j.B/j.2B

High(fake low). Gap on normal block. Catches the opponent thinking you landed into a low. j.B is slowest but most rewarding on hit. Susceptible to reversal after blocked 214C, but most reversals can be blocked if you airdash without attacking.

Combos

- 2A > 2B > (5B) > 5C > 2A+B > 236A->A/B > 236C > 236B->A > meaty 214C

2292-2612 damage. Easier with ->A but slightly less damage.

- 5A > 2B/5B > 5C > 2A+B > 236A->A/B > 236C > 236B->A > meaty 214C

2526-2872 damage.

- CH B+D > 2A+B > 236A->A/B > 236C > 236B->A > meaty 214C

2487-2687 damage.

- Throw > dash 5B > 236A > 236C > 236B->A > meaty 214C

1998 damage.

- CH Air Throw > 5B > 236A > 236C > 236B->A > meaty 214C

2318 damage.

- far 5B > 236A(input 236D on 1st hit) > 236D hits > 236B > 2B > nj.B(input 236C) > j.2B > 236C hits > 236A->A > meaty 214C

2939 damage.

- Combo 7

...

Character Specific Notes

-

[VR-Raiden]

Added meaty 214C oki to the first post, this looks like his strongest oki so far. Currently adding combos to the list of how to go into it, the latest vid posted by A.X.I.S. helped in developing some of them (http://youtu.be/279gWIFzGsE) but ending in Gigantic Impact A is better than B for this so some combos in there can be modified to do that. If you have better ones than the ones listed or combos from different starters feel free to share them in here.

First noticed the oki used in this vid at 4:40 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24414242

[AshtonDragon]

Finally got my recording stuff and made a video of my oki: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LH82ClR6ZO4

 

The main reason I like this mixup compared to the 214C oki is because the combo itself generally does a lot more damage and corner carry for comparable oki. I personally would use both, though, as changing the setup a lot makes it that much harder for your opponent to defend against it.

[VR-Raiden]

Cool thanks, it doesn't look like it handles delay tech, I'm guessing they can just delay tech then there's no high-low for them to worry about. But you would have Koromaru available immediately after at least.

It's definitely weaker looking for high-low than meaty 214C but you don't have to wait on Koromaru 214C recovery (assuming they didn't do max delay tech to not block it) for followup combo/pressure which is good.

I'll update the first post with info on it soon.

[A.X.I.S.]

Finally got my recording stuff and made a video of my oki: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LH82ClR6ZO4

 

The main reason I like this mixup compared to the 214C oki is because the combo itself generally does a lot more damage and corner carry for comparable oki. I personally would use both, though, as changing the setup a lot makes it that much harder for your opponent to defend against it.

 

 

Mind writing the notation for those combos?

Also have you tried it on Sho? Sho is actually harder to combo for Ken in some cases.

[VR-Raiden]

Reposting this 214C tutorial here, it's essentially what's in the first post but more accurate/detailed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V47sbvNZsAo

Still need to update first post.

 

I was looking at 236C+D for pressure/oki, here are some times you can use it for a high/low mixup. It acts a lot like 214C oki.

 

Midscreen

- blocked 5A~236C+D > forward super jump(cancelled from the 5A) > close-to-ground airdash j.A, or land 2A.

This works the same as 214C oki, there's a gap for the airdash which they can DP, but you can block to bait. No gap for the 2A. They can jump out, but they have to do it pretty quick or 236C+D catches their jump startup. They can roll too, and that usually works, but depending on timing/spacing that get tagged at the end by 236C+D. This option would need to be used with knowledge of how to discourage jumping and rolling immediately after they block 5A (plenty of ways).

 

- blocked 2A~236C+D > dash jump > close-to-ground airdash j.A, or land 2A

Same as above but from 2A. Unfortunately it's difficult to get there to be no gap for the 2A so not quite as strong. Same deal where they can potentially jump/roll out.

 

Corner

- Above 2 options work but are stronger. 5A one is the same, 2A one makes it so you can regular jump, and the land 2A always no gap (unless they IB).

 

- B+D hit > [1]2369C+D > close-to-ground airdash j.A, or land 2A.

Normal hit B+D knockdown in corner, such as off standard damage combo routes. No gap even on IB for either 2A or airdash. Just have to take into account the last hit of 236C+D will combo after 2A (or falling j.A), so combo will be on an airborne opponent. Holding 1 before doing the tk.236C+D makes it so you don't super jump. They can't delay tech to avoid a meaty 236C+D, and it won't OTG.

 

- B+D hit > 236236A > [1]2369C+D > close-to-ground airdash j.A, or land 2A.

Same as above, but added super for damage, probably see this happen if you would've taken them into Awakening already anyway and want to get rid of more Awakening health. This does take 75SP to use though.

[VR-Raiden]

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24585081

 

In this vid, we see a ton of good pressure options. Kubo runs 236D oki in this as well. Uses it for high/low and crossups.

 

I do wonder about some things though. I started doing 214C oki in favor of 236D because they can just take an OTG 236D and either air tech out, or if you were able to actually get a j.2B re-knockdown, you just get regular pressure. I want to know what Kubo would've been doing here if any of these players actually decided to take the OTG 236D. You can see him start to stay grounded once the Narukami started delaying his tech. I guess he would just try to reapply pressure if they took the OTG? I feel like it isn't strong if they just take an OTG 236D every time, completely eliminates any mixup Ken can use from it.

 

I should add that it would depend on the combo before the OTG 236D how much you could convert off it, and how easily. I think if you could get a nice combo off the OTG it would be fine, but unless it was really short it seems like combos don't allow much at all if the 236D hits OTG.

[Justice7541]

 

Trying to figure out how to actually open people up with this character, I spent most of my import preview period on Rise unfortunately.  This is like day 2 Ken stuff mostly but so far:

 

2A/5A 2B/5B hop j.B looks to be airtight (if they don't IB) and heavily + on block, which means it's possible to do something like 2A 2B hop j.B 5A jump forward 2C > mixups.  Unfortunately I don't think there's any way to make airdash j.B airtight so it looks like you'll either be baiting the DP mash or just going for something safer but less ambiguous like IAD j.B > j.2B or 2A.  Looks like jump forward j.B JC j.B 5C j.2B works as a fuzzy too but it's pretty hard to time, j.B has to hit pretty deep.

 

236C+D is pretty + but still not enough to prevent them from mashing DP vs. airdash mixup.  You can delay it so the spin covers your airdash but then they can roll on reaction to the jump.  214C+D seems kind of useless as a mixup tool outside of setting up a meaty unfortunately since it doesn't have that much blockstun and the spin doesn't hit them till super late unless they jump into it.

 

Ken's AOA is super bad and not really worth mentioning but it's worth going for sometimes I guess.  Since he has super armor on the move itself you can delay Koro followup a lot to cover only the recovery since they won't be hitting you out of the startup anyway.  Obviously don't try it vs. Yu or anyone else with a good super they're likely to mash on defense.

 

 

Another Day 3 Ken mixup, not sure how legit since i've only done it on netplayers so far, and not very good ones at that.  Still:

 

- Hop j.B hits mid = not a mixup

- AOA hits overhead but is super slow = not a very good mixup

- Hop j.B startup looks kind of like AOA startup = you can train the opponent to stand up on reaction to hop

- Hop j.B hits "overhead", hop j.A (whiff) 2A hits low = "high"/low mixup

[C4IQ]

Hmm intresting. i have a combo that i havent seen as of yet and the oki it leads to seems pretty solid to me. ill post it up when i get home from work and if you guys can tell me any problems with it that would be great (as this may be the reason ive not seen anyone do it.lol) it nets about 3200 meterless and starts with AAB comfirm. also found a kinda useful way of utilising a 236B, A+B Paralyasis (even thought it only last for like 2/3 secounds which sucks) 

[Zephyrion22]

so here is a list of more gimmicky okizeme strategies, but you should use them every once in a while !

 

Stuff > 236B>236D oki  : forsaking damage for shenanigans : since the Dog brings the opponent back to you you can attempt both high/low and left/right mixups with either roll or IAD air-turned backdash. you can also do 236CD  if you think your first mixup will be blocked : unilke 236D, Koro recovers as soon as the animation is completed and don't go back to you, meaning you can attempt 5A > 5C mixups after your initial okizeme mixup.

 

 

236A~A>Late 214C/D throw trap : a variant of the 214C meaty okizeme, simply enough you just delay your 214C compared to the normal okizeme. If the opponent early techs, you can either attempt a throw or just throw bait by jumping/backdashing and so on (depending on your opponent, try to choose an option that will force their reversal to whiff) and get a combo thanks to 214C/D connecting. should the opponent late tech, you'll just have your 214C hit as a meaty, and you can use the options that 214C's normal okizeme give you. Best is to mix both to keep the opponent on their toes. 214CD goes all the way regardless of Ken being hit or not, so it can eat most light attacks and B+D DPs and trade in your favor, it also catches rolls if you wanted to DP bait

 

corner 236A/B~B>214D/236D safejump : unlike the other two, this is a true and reliable okizeme that you should go for if you can get it in the corner, because it is obnoxious. Gigantic impact B alone lets you do a jB safe jump that eats both rolls and jump startups. Once the opponent respects that, you can sneak a throw instead of a jB. If the opponent chooses to late tech,214D hits meaty. And you can use that to  run another mixup (jump back air-turned backdash jB/2A/throw. If timed right, the 214D will take care of all the delay tech options, your jump back will take care of the DP, and 214D should give you just enough blockstun to attempt your mixup.  Should the opponent not tech at all, you'll get your jB to yellow beat,  the following 214D will connect, and you'll just have to do a j2B to knock the opponent back to the ground and follow with a 236D okizeme. If you know for sure your opponent won't tech, you can just  fake out the jB, and the 214D WILL reset, giving you a free combo itnto the same oki. the only real drawback to this okizeme is that while you can easily confirm of any stray hit happening during it into another knockdown, and even apply the same okizeme again, 214D proration will make your combo weaker. Still a good old annoying vortex so hey^^

Footnote : to time the 214D to hit correctly all you have to do is input 214D just before recovering from B Impact, then jump, and the timing should be around the one you need

 

EDIT : if you want to be even dirtier, here is a neat little mixup from the previous oki : blocked : jB safejump>214>236B/236AB>236D(Koro should do it from behind the opponent) and then jump forward >air backdash jB (cross-up or not depending on the timing) or neutral jump air turn air dash forward jB> j2B/fake j2B into  low.

 

Most of this stuff isn't perfectly legit, but they are still good options to keep in mind, if your old okizeme begins to get somewhat stale !

[Justice7541]

So to follow up on the hop crossup thing from the other thread, hop crossup > dogespin (either 214C?D or 236C/D) will cause dogespin to hit crossup even if they stand up after the hop goes over them.  My guess is crossup protection only applies if they're already standing up when you cross over them.  So you can do dash hop airturn j.B/2B, 214C dash hop (214C hits) 2A, etc., so even if they stand up to prevent the hop crossup you can still catch them with a low if they don't properly time their switch back to crouch block.

 

Also j.B has a ton of startup which makes it pretty funny for regular jump high/low stuff, do j.B so it hits super deep or so you land right before it connects (but after the animation's already come out) into 2A low.  It's fuzzy-blockable but it's a relatively small window since 2A is only 6f startup.

[VR-Raiden]

According to http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Defense_(P4AU)#Crossup_Guard

crossup protection lasts 2f after you switch sides. So as long as the crossup hits 3f after it will crossup. That means they should always be able to roll them if I'm not mistaken (roll strike invul start at 3f). But with Ken's reach I'm sure it's not difficult to punish rolls from most setups.

Thanks for sharing the tricks. I'll see if I can look at and add it all to the first post today. Either way I'm glad we are getting more tech documented in here.

[Justice7541]

Crossup protection only seems to apply if they're standing. You can try with stuff like Teddie IAD j.B, it only crosses up if you block it crouching.

[VR-Raiden]

Crossup protection only seems to apply if they're standing. You can try with stuff like Teddie IAD j.B, it only crosses up if you block it crouching.

Couldn't that just be that it connects earlier on stand block due to the hurtbox difference when standing vs crouching? Earlier meaning less time between Teddie crossing over you, and the j.B connecting.

[Justice7541]

It seems like the crossover lasts a lot longer than 2 frames but it's hard to be sure. You can try it with something like Rise notes too, do 5AA jump forward j.B (to detonate the notes) and you can see that Rise is well over to the other side yet it can still be blocked both ways.

[Justice7541]

Ken's jump forward airdash j.B > j.2B overhead or 2A low is actually sort of a legit mixup off dogewheel or 2C lockdown. The opponent also has to be watching for it moreso than usual since the high/low mixup isn't as immediately obvious since Ken starts the airdash from so high up, so people don't immediately expect to have to fuzzy block it. It's also nice because the timing of whether j.2B will hit or land-cancel-whiff varies both on how high up you are when you airdash and how quickly you press j.B after starting the dash, so it becomes hard to tell whether it's going to come out or not. I personally have just been inputting both as a pseudo-OS cause even I can't tell.

[Zephyrion22]

Ken's jump forward airdash j.B > j.2B overhead or 2A low is actually sort of a legit mixup off dogewheel or 2C lockdown. The opponent also has to be watching for it moreso than usual since the high/low mixup isn't as immediately obvious since Ken starts the airdash from so high up, so people don't immediately expect to have to fuzzy block it. It's also nice because the timing of whether j.2B will hit or land-cancel-whiff varies both on how high up you are when you airdash and how quickly you press j.B after starting the dash, so it becomes hard to tell whether it's going to come out or not. I personally have just been inputting both as a pseudo-OS cause even I can't tell.

 

yeah it's one of the few high/low mixups you'll generally use, they all  have pros and cons in my opinion. I'm listing them here real quick

 

-jump forward airdash jB>j2B or jB>(fake-out j2B)>2A or 2B/throw

Pros

-jB comes out quite fast.

-can be done from an IAD from fair distances midscreen, and at anytime in the corner.

jB>j2B is airtight on normal block, you can DP between jB and j2B on IB, but both j2B and the fake option also act as safe-jump (what you do after landing can get stuffed though), even on earliest jB.

 

Cons

-jB is very unsafe without dog cover, since it's an IAD mixup.

-Even if you're safe to DPs, the big hole left by the fake-out j2B can let the opponent mash the normal of their choice/jump out before the low.

-doesn't work against crouching opponents midscreen from up close, your jB will just sail over them.

-Not really a con, but standing/crouching hitboxes of smaller characters affect the timing of the mixup, you can do it on IAD for some, others will require a little delay on the airdash (best is to consistently go for the delay). This makes the mixup unpredictable for the opponent, but can also mess with your confirms or give a chance for the opponent to do something about it.

 

jump > air-turn> air backdash (towards opponent) jB or(fake-out jB)>2A or 2B/throw

Pros

-back-turned IAD in itself is incredibly safe if you choose not to input anything after you do it, and even if you do you land quite fast, meaning you can get away using this from 5C in pressure or raw 5A (not advised but you can try).

-very hard to differentiate the  overhead from the low/throw option.

- Midscreen, can cross-up or not depending of your jump direction  before the air-dash, your position, and the pushback/vacuum from Koro's action, giving you hard to predict left/right + high/low mixups.

- If you have 214C/214D or 236D/CD cover, you can effectively run the high/low while remaining completely safe, and pressure from this (not from the other moves since they don't have enough blockstun).

 

Cons

-poor range, which is bad considering how neutral works in the game. you're saving this for post knockdown/corner mixups.

-  The IAD backdash makes it obvious that you're going for a mixup, so the opponent can choose to guard/roll cancel (you can bait those though) to avoid dealing with it.

If you mistime it/ misinput it (happens more often than you'd think because of the height requirement for his jB to come out), you  can lose your pressure/get punished more easily than with jB>j2B mixup.

- can be easily airthrown if you're not covered by Koro. Again use this sparingly when Koro isn't around

 

 

I may have forgot some points but this could help seeing in which situation you want to use the jB/j2B mixup, and in which you want to use the other.

[Justice7541]

Okay so airdash j.A is, near as I can tell, godly and pretty much the best mixup tech I've come up with so far.  Super easy to autopilot too:

 

Setup 1: From any combo ending in j.2B 236D 236B~A > late 214C (timing should be just about when Koromaru starts running back after 236D and is able to connect with 214C non-meaty), neutral jump

Possible scenarios:

1) They mash DP = it will whiff or can be blocked on reaction

2) They mash AA = it will hit Koromaru but you can land 5B or airdash j.A for punish

3) They roll, you punish with land 5A or airdash j.A (midscreen, they don't go far enough to cross you up; in corner you have to react to the roll with land 5A)

4) They respect 214C and block it, you airdash on the way down from your jump > either immediate j.A or delay j.A land 2A.  Immediate j.A hits overhead 3 times, delay j.A hits overhead twice and low.  Very hard to react to.since 214C obscures Ken

Note: Won't work on anyone who can simultaneously hit both you and Koromaru safely on wakeup, i.e. Mitsuru can do Bufudyne (huge AUB reversal), Marge/Adachi might be able to 2B j.C to get out (haven't tested this extensively)

 

Setup 2: In corner, end any combo with 2B j.A(2) j.B JC j.B 236D j.2B forward jump j.B j.2B 214C, then either jump back or crouch block

Possible scenarios:

1) You jump back > same set of options as above

2) You crouch block (mostly to bait stuff like Mitsuru Bufudyne) > confirm Koromaru connects > IAD j.A 2A (immediate j.A = hits once, delay j.A = hits twice)

Note: Crouch block loses to wakeup mashing since you're right next to them (214C will stop if you get hit) so mix it in with meaties

 

Setup 3: From any blockstring where you can make them respect 236X~B (which isn't super hard unless they're mashing reversals like crazy), input 214D early (before the Gigantic Attack comes out), confirm that Koromaru connects, IAD j.A > mixups from Setup 2 above.

Note: It's hard to make B Gigantic > 214D airtight and still get an unDPable IAD j.A.  Easier to delay 214D slightly so that their only option is to roll out, then you can just 5A punish if they do and do the mixup as normal if they don't.

 

Need to test this more in general in locals where reacting to mixups is actually possible (I was having a super hard time blocking in training mode with the dummy set to replay randomly but I'm a scrub in general) but it works in netplay lol.  Then again no one knows what they're doing in netplay so.

[A.X.I.S.]

So I heard someone FINALLY found the air dash mix up with Ken and good stuff to you.

Did you know it also loses to Akihiko DP for free since its air unblockable and huge.

It also doesn't on fast huge supers as well.

Its really really cool but you have to keep a eye on your opponents bar before going for it.

 

I thought about writing some early Ken bible about the best stuff you can do on knockdown and cover all the goody goods but I just don't have the energy for it.

Oh yeah another funny thing.

 

2A/2B starter combos can make your opponent immediately tech on the final hit of a long combo when using 236AA.

Its an amazing since your opponent is expecting to be otg'd and they found them selves waking up into something uncomfortable.

I rarely use it myself but you should definitely mess with it.

[Justice7541]

So I heard someone FINALLY found the air dash mix up with Ken and good stuff to you.

Did you know it also loses to Akihiko DP for free since its air unblockable and huge.

It also doesn't on fast huge supers as well.

Its really really cool but you have to keep a eye on your opponents bar before going for it.

 

I thought about writing some early Ken bible about the best stuff you can do on knockdown and cover all the goody goods but I just don't have the energy for it.

Oh yeah another funny thing.

 

2A/2B starter combos can make your opponent immediately tech on the final hit of a long combo when using 236AA.

Its an amazing since your opponent is expecting to be otg'd and they found them selves waking up into something uncomfortable.

I rarely use it myself but you should definitely mess with it.

 

It depends on the setup.  That's why I recommend neutral/back jumping instead of going forward, since that allows you to bait out more air unblockable stuff.  Akihiko's DP will also whiff in the case of the setups I posted above simply because he's too far away.  What Akihiko actually can do though is parry into Corkscrew or Upper, that's caught me off-guard a few times, although it is also baitable if you just land and block on reaction to his parry.

 

Offhand I'm also not sure what the other fast huge AUB supers capable of reaching Ken at that distance would be.  Mitsuru's is the only one I can think of offhand.

[Zephyrion22]

Wow, this is surprisingly awesome, I totally love this !

 

Little note, some crouching hitboxes make the 3 hits option very hard (i.e Yukiko) and some literally impossible (i.e Naoto). Still great regardless of that !

[A.X.I.S.]

It depends on the setup.  That's why I recommend neutral/back jumping instead of going forward, since that allows you to bait out more air unblockable stuff.  Akihiko's DP will also whiff in the case of the setups I posted above simply because he's too far away.  What Akihiko actually can do though is parry into Corkscrew or Upper, that's caught me off-guard a few times, although it is also baitable if you just land and block on reaction to his parry.

 

Offhand I'm also not sure what the other fast huge AUB supers capable of reaching Ken at that distance would be.  Mitsuru's is the only one I can think of offhand.

 

 

 

If that setup is truly solid Aki wouldn't be able to wake up cork screw.

214C is too slow off that knockdown and gives too much room, honestly you can use 5C/2C/236C/D on that knockdown.

and then you can actually jump forward/land and roll, to be safe from reversals and you don't need to worry about air unblockables.

I personally jump forward since the run momentum lets me cross up and they can't auto correct to tag me.

[Justice7541]

If that setup is truly solid Aki wouldn't be able to wake up cork screw.

214C is too slow off that knockdown and gives too much room, honestly you can use 5C/2C/236C/D on that knockdown.

and then you can actually jump forward/land and roll, to be safe from reversals and you don't need to worry about air unblockables.

I personally jump forward since the run momentum lets me cross up and they can't auto correct to tag me.

It's not a meaty but they shouldn't have much room to wiggle out; they should only have a couple of frames to act with a standing action + a few extra if the action can be done from crouch. Most actions that would evade/disable Koro won't work to get them out because you can always just land and punish. For example, if Akihiko tries to do 236C/D, I'm reasonably sure you could just 5A or j.B punish just like against a roll, and similarly I don't think 5C or 2C would reach you since there's at least 2 character lengths of space between the two of you.

I can't test that at the moment since I'm not at home, but I can at least say that if the opponent does have some option to get out of the looser setup, the tighter (lower-damage) route (236A~A 236C, 236B~A, 214C oki) should equally well since Koro should be able to hit meaty.

[jtangamer]

During the 214C set up, while Korumaru is spinning, if you tech immediately and IB the spin, you seem to be able to DP if you time it right if you decide to go for a low as Ken. Just want to double check if I'm doing the set up right or wrong and if you're getting the same issues I am.  

[jeef]

I'm having trouble with with the oki positioning after this combo  - 2A > 2B > 5C > 2A+B > 236A~A/B > 236C > 236B~A(input 214C immediately after) > meaty 214C

I can't the position of the dog consistent so that the 214C will always hit wake up rolls. Also, whenever I try to dash jump after the 214C I always jump over the opponent instead of landing immediately in front of them. I think my timing of my button presses during the combo is off, since I can't always hit the final 236C > 236B~A consistently (the person punch doesn't come out).

 

If anyone could offer any help I would really appreciate it. Cheers!