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[Xrd] Elphelt Gameplay Discussion "The True Best Girl"

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First make sure to read very carefully the wiki. Explains what to use and when as well as a few OSes. Should make you understand what you plan to do in neutral for most matchups and how it can be blown up.

I'm reworking currently on the combo thread and will simply drop the "Every combos for every starter possible" layout I wanted to use for a much simpler one so an updated combo thread should be done tonight. I'll post anyway when I'm done with it in the combo thread.
If you want to work on her ASAP, I would suggest you to check Charleon's guide first then read the other posts in the combo thread.

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Hey guys I'm having a bit of trouble with the unblockable setup on may.. My j.S hits, but my j.H knockdown seems to completely whiff sometimes.. would it be something to do with the pushback or is my timing just bad? 

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Like with a lot of characters, jK>jH is much more consistent on her than jS>jH

Most consistent setup for her would be:

3 hits>214K RC>dash 2H>cS>hjSPSD>j236P>jKH>land>2P toss>236S

Then for the loop itself:

Shot level 2>explosion>dash>delay cS>hjSPSD>j236P>jKH>land>2P toss>236S

About the delay before cS:
Against every lightweight character, you want to make sure you hit them when they are falling from the explosion. Not at the top of the launch.
Also, make sure you don't dash too much or you will end up way too close making jKH whiff.

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Hey guys, so I've played a couple of games with her and have gotten a bit of a grip with her basics and shit(2.S ftw). One question I have, whenever I get a hit with a p or k normal I always go into a string that ends in a 2.D cancelled into a grenade. I follow that up by tossing the grenade and performing a meaty 2.D into shotgun pressure.

 

My question is, I often see elphelts ending their combos in bridal express, why would I do this? It doesn't seem to give you enough time to arm a grenade and perform a meaty set-up, so I'm not sure what benefit there is to doing this.

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Hey guys, so I've played a couple of games with her and have gotten a bit of a grip with her basics and shit(2.S ftw). One question I have, whenever I get a hit with a p or k normal I always go into a string that ends in a 2.D cancelled into a grenade. I follow that up by tossing the grenade and performing a meaty 2.D into shotgun pressure.

 

My question is, I often see elphelts ending their combos in bridal express, why would I do this? It doesn't seem to give you enough time to arm a grenade and perform a meaty set-up, so I'm not sure what benefit there is to doing this.

Guaranteed damage+meter, corner carry, simplicity, low SG-D reward in midscreen, and your opponent has room to move backward.

You don't lose oki entirely either in most cases and can make hard reads to soft counter their options. That said, you don't have to follow what they do. I have a few 2D 236P 236H midscreen oki setups that work well against someone who's never seen it.

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My question is, I often see elphelts ending their combos in bridal express, why would I do this? It doesn't seem to give you enough time to arm a grenade and perform a meaty set-up, so I'm not sure what benefit there is to doing this.

bridal gives you a good extra chunk of damage, position, and meter, at the cost of perfect oki, but you get different timings from Bridal --> Pin Pull that are fine also 

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That's because after a 214K knockdown you can go for safe jump setups.
There were numerous and lengthy debates over grenade oki vs safe jump oki on the Elphelt skype chat but after a while, the consensus became that going for Bridal ender into safe jump setup was better in every way simply because it allowed you to go straight into a mixup leading to decent rewards and with a Bridal ender once more giving her a vortex.

The issue brought by grenade oki really was that you had to go for different options whether the opponent blocked normally, IBed>Reversal/backdash, BS>backdash/fuzzy jump, etc.

While with safe jump setups, your opponent got less defensive options to deal with it and there is an initial mixup that if it fails, allow to keep pressuring anyway. Of course, BS will beat safe jump jS or crossup jS but that's typically why it's referred as a setup due to the fact that you always want to mix it up with stuff like late airdash jSPPS/empty 5K/empty throw/falling YRC/etc

Was already considered better in 1.0 but with the grenade disappearing on hit now in 1.1 safe jump setups are even stronger compared to grenade oki.

Of course, there are still plenty of gimmicks with grenade oki like corner 2P toss>dash throw>explosion>Air combo/UB setup or midscreen SG-K explosion crossdowns or obviously UB setups but safe jump setups are still more reliable and give better tension and rewards.

Also, you can use safe jump setups off most enders except midscreen 5Hx5 and throw. Obviously, you will need to delay it appropriately and the timing and spacing for jS cross up can become quite weird.

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Hi! Would someone be able to help me? I'm new to Elphelt (1st time playing this game) and I played a few matches against a friend of mine using Ky and He won all of them. I tried to ariel dash towards him and attack but I always get countered. Is there any sort of game plan I need to learn or work with to improve? His zoning has beaten mine so I'm scared to zone against him now, and I'm forced to try and rush down. I'm most probably playing the character completely wrong in which case I'm willing to try whatever anyone suggests. I'm quite used to using 5A from my previous fighting game (Persona) but she throws the rose out and it has poor range and I don't really know any combos at all. I've tried challenge mode and I'm trying to do challenge 22 consistently but other than that I don't really know how she works. I'm also playing on gamepad and I'm having some difficulties with the more complicated inputs such as the "Z" or 632146 inputs. Would this game be easier to play on a stick? Any help is very much appreciated! :D

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Hi! Would someone be able to help me? I'm new to Elphelt (1st time playing this game) and I played a few matches against a friend of mine using Ky and He won all of them. I tried to ariel dash towards him and attack but I always get countered. Is there any sort of game plan I need to learn or work with to improve? His zoning has beaten mine so I'm scared to zone against him now, and I'm forced to try and rush down. I'm most probably playing the character completely wrong in which case I'm willing to try whatever anyone suggests. I'm quite used to using 5A from my previous fighting game (Persona) but she throws the rose out and it has poor range and I don't really know any combos at all. I've tried challenge mode and I'm trying to do challenge 22 consistently but other than that I don't really know how she works. I'm also playing on gamepad and I'm having some difficulties with the more complicated inputs such as the "Z" or 632146 inputs. Would this game be easier to play on a stick? Any help is very much appreciated! :D

 

Well I'd recommend watching a couple of videos, here's one I'm currently watching: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iox4BAT7sbU

And then going over the wiki, getting a hang of her normals and specials, then learning one or two basic combos(there's a pretty good combo section) and moving up from there.

 

I play on stick, but you can definitely play this game on pad so I wouldn't evesn worry about that. Just focus on understanding the basics of the character first.

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You can definetely play GG on pad with no problem yeah. Character that is comparatively much easier to play on stick than on pad is Zato due to him having to often hold 2 or 3 buttons while manipulating the shadow which is quite obnoxious on pad (Still possible to play him on pad obviously but comfort is definetely a factor when it comes to appreciating a character).

Some people though mentionned that Elphelt's shogun loops and perfect rifle reload were much easier on pad which makes sense due to the 46 motion.
Point is: Just use whatever you like the most.

As for your neutral options, seems like you mostly need to work more on your fundamentals. Based on your avatar, I suppose that you main Margaret that got very specific and unusual neutral options while Elphelt is basic though, much more versatile than her.

Lemme give you a few tips that you should learn and try to add in your game:

-The S button is Elphelt's most important one in neutral. fS is a great poke that comes out in 9f and is attack level 3 (Most are level 2 in GG). cS is a great anti-air with a massive hitbox that will beat anything done above your head 95% of the time.
2S is one of the best counter poke in the game and it staggers on CH for a while allowing you to win most trades.

jS is an air normal that is amazing with a great hitbox and is one of the reasons why Elphelt's air game is so scary. It also is as fast as a jab (7f) with a nice recovery.

Learn first how to correctly use her S buttons and then you can start with the other ones. 5H, 6H, jD etc are great normals but you can easily be punished for using them in wrong situations while it's much more complicated for S normals.

-Against zoners, you need to keep in mind that you don't have that many situations where a projectile will cover both the ground and the air and those same projectiles tend to have dangerous recovery on whiff.
An easy mindgame you can go for would be either:
Dash>fS/2S poke
Or
Dash>jump>falling jS/jH

Picking Ky as an example, if he planned to zone with fS or Stunedge(236S), he will be whiff punished by dash>jump.
If he planned to be passive, observe or go for a risky option, he will have to deal the fS/2S being blocked and having him on the defensive thanks to Elphelt's numerous cancel options.

Obviously, this is not foolproof and there are ways to blow you up that are all matchup dependent. For instance, no Ky can't just zone Elphelt and play safe due to her numerous options to blow that up. Examples include well-spaced 5H, grenade toss, 2H, 2S, Rifle, and even risker approaches like air Bridal or shotgun rolls.
Generally, if you stumble into a situation or a character that require more than fundamentals to deal with, just ask for help in the matchup sections.

-Like jak mentionned, studying and/or copying a top player that you like or fit your style is a great option that can allow you to improve particularly fast. Just pick some paper and a pen and go watch some videos.
Saw an interesting punish ? Take some notes.
Saw a particular neutral option ? Write it down.
Saw something weird ? Scribble it down.

Once you're done with that, just go in training mode and try it out. Maybe you will be able to realize something you never did before or improve what caught your interest even further. Either way, this will definetely allow you to step up your game.

There is a video thread too(That isn't updated. Yes I know, I'm a terrible mod.) if you're looking for specific sets/players.

Thankfully, Elphelt is quite versatile and our top JP players illustrate that by showing off completely different playstyles. Whether it's Fumo, Sharon, Koichi or Isa, they are all worth watching and provide interesting ways to play her differently while still getting results nonetheless.

There is also Dei (Not DIE-CHAN. They are 2 completely different person. Dei that is also written as Day.) that is the top ranked Elphelt at the moment. Maybe he doesn't do well with tournament pressure but so far based on the footage we got, his Elphelt doesn't seem that great compared to the 4 other people I mentionned.

Finally, when I'm both free and motivated for long study sessions, I sometimes make posts with small commentaries to explain whether the match is worth watching or not. Mainly to allow people who don't have that much time to watch interesting matches or point out things that people might have missed.

Here's an example

 

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Just figured out something interesting. After a standard combo ending in BE, it's possible to otg hit the opponent with 6H cancelled into Sg-s before they tech. While he techs, immediately go into Sg-D not leaving a lot of time (if any at all) to escape. Obviously this kind of trap is most effective when in the corner and not 100% sure if it works on all characters as I was practicing against Bedman at the time.

 

Edit: Tried it on Sol,doesn't seem to work that well.However,the same effect could be achieved with a combo into 2D,cancel into shotgun-S. Must be done in the corner because teching backwards will put the opponent out of harms way.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G730A using Tapatalk
 

Edited by BlackJustin13
Updated info

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I need assistance with this combo from the guide  SG-D(2)xx236p > (Wait until Charged Red Flash) > Charged SG-S > [ Charged SG-HS > Reload ] x2 > SG-S > 2p(toss) > (BOOM) > (Wait until Charged Red Flash) > Charged SG-S > [ Charged SG-HS > Reload ] x2 > SG-S > [ SG-HS > Reload ]x4-6 my grenade dose t explode after the second charge shot my Sg-S dosent connect or my toss dosent get the launch I don't know when I try this combo sol techs after grenade hits this is the combo from the guide...Starter > BE > RC > Run > 2H(2)xx236p > c.S > j.S > dj.k > dj.S > dj.H > 4p (toss grenade close to the ground, it should hit the opponent) > land > j.S  (grenade should go boom) > dj.k > dj.S > dj.H > dj.D xx 236p. Any advice would be greatly appreciated Thank u.  

 

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Video 2. What I'm trying to do Starter > BE > RC > Run > 2H(2)xx236p > c.S > j.S > dj.k > dj.S > dj.H > 4p (toss grenade close to the ground, it should hit the opponent) > land > j.S  (grenade should go boom) > dj.k > dj.S > dj.H > dj.D xx 236p

Edited by Theone_truestyle
Link to vid added

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For the SG-D combo, try starting with dash SG-D and you'll understand right away what's wrong. Otherwise, delay the first SG-S.
For the roman cancel combo, delay the air normals so that you toss the grenade just before you land (input j4P about 1/6th of a second before you land).

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From what I've seen in this thread it looks like this is a good place to get possibly get advice about my game play. I was able to do a session last night online on my ps4 and using youtube streaming was able to capture some online matches. I wanted to know if possible if someone can critic or give some advice to me from my session last night. Match ups I got was vs. Sin, Slayer, Sol.

Sin is beginning matches

Slayer starts at 24:19, Sol is at 39:00

https://youtu.be/pvWuabARIbQ?t=24m19s

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On 11/9/2015, 12:31:31, hardworkgenius said:

From what I've seen in this thread it looks like this is a good place to get possibly get advice about my game play. I was able to do a session last night online on my ps4 and using youtube streaming was able to capture some online matches. I wanted to know if possible if someone can critic or give some advice to me from my session last night. Match ups I got was vs. Sin, Slayer, Sol.

Sin is beginning matches

Slayer starts at 24:19, Sol is at 39:00

https://youtu.be/pvWuabARIbQ?t=24m19s

Just for the record, there's a thread specifically for critique, it's this badboy right here:

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/forums/topic/9867-xrd-elphelt-critique-thread-waifubros-training-center/

Now keep in mind I'm still relatively new to the character, so some of the stuff I say might be incorrect, but with that said, here're some tips.

1. Right out the gate ill tell you this, Bridal express isn't safe on block, so you should throw it out a lot less. Cancel f.S into 2.HS, or grenade, or IAD. There's really no reason to ever cancel it directly into BE.

2. You should use grenade and shotgun more, they're really strong tools

3. OS your throws(I'm going to assume that's why you did so many raw HSs), input your throw as 6.S+HS, that way if the throw doesn't hit the c.S will come out, which is substantially safer.

3. Use 5.K more, you barely throw out any lows, the overhead is never going to hit if you don't give them a reason to block low.

4. Cancel your 6.HS's, it gives you a lot of frame advantage on block, but only if you cancel it either into shotgun or grenade.

5. Practice instant air dashing, it's a very useful tool with her.

6. Watch some gameplay of other elphelts, check out the video I just added to the video thread, it's about 30 minutes of really solid elph play.

Hope these tips help.

EDIT: Lol, forgot to ask the question I came to ask. In this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LCF8gYSY48&t=6m39s LS does an IAD grenade toss, and he hits Marlin with the toss, I can't seem to get the toss to hit, it usually goes over the characters head. I can't tell if it's height, spacing, or timing dependent and was hoping to get some help.

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Thanks a lot Jak D Ripr. Most of what you said is correct especially with me getting 5HS for throws. I will also direct my critiques to the appropriate thread. I have been working on instant air dash. But still can't do it when I really want naturally. And I do forget to use or shotgun alot. Grenades I feel I need some setups. I will also check out the video you put up as well!

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9 hours ago, hardworkgenius said:

Thanks a lot Jak D Ripr. Most of what you said is correct especially with me getting 5HS for throws. I will also direct my critiques to the appropriate thread. I have been working on instant air dash. But still can't do it when I really want naturally. And I do forget to use or shotgun alot. Grenades I feel I need some setups. I will also check out the video you put up as well!

No problem, glad I could help. Yea the IADs take some getting used to, but it'll come eventually, don't worry. One last thing, check out this series, https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLj34EySs1IeZ8GpjKW8R2T6dzI6B3GSuH they cover a lot of stuff that should help improve your fundamentals. 

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How important are her unblockables? Do you need them to be really good or is the rest of her game pretty good already? I know she's top tier but is it necessary to learn the unblockable set ups to really see her shine?

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Depends really why you picked her. If it's just for casuals, yeah I guess you can skip them.

If you want to be competitive with a character, mastering everything it can do in order to fully optimize your decisions is kind of a given.
You can win without that but you're definetely missing on an important part of her okizeme. Besides, they aren't really that hard to pull off. Compared to what some characters require like Potemkin's 6K loops, Elphelt is quite easy.

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You will generally buffer jP right after doing jS as it's just not possible to hitconfirm with jS alone.

To be honest, it's same thing as the AA routes really.

jS>jP>jS>djK>jS>delay jH>delay jD is what you will go for most of the time.

If they are too high
jS>jP>jS>djS>delay jH>delay jD

If they are too low
jS>jP>jS>djS>jP>jS>delay jH>delay jD

All should result in knockdown most of the time.

If it's jS from an IAD, then jS>jH will knock them down at IAD height.

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