-Ask Kiba- (Gameplay related stuff)

[Kiba]

Hi. You can ask me anything Tsubaki related (whether it's really about me using the character, the character herself, the forum etc) and I'll answer it as best as I can. I don't mind if the questions deviate slightly but you guys generally know how I feel about that.

 

I started this thread because I hope to 'fill in missing gaps' as there may be areas which no one has touched on. Not only will the answers help you bu they could also help others out there who may have shared a similar idea. I reckon it's also going to be easier to share my thoughts with you guys in a public environment. I do feel like there are a few questions people would like to ask me.

 

If this thread doesn't work I'll bomb it, but no harm in trying as I do feel that this can be productive for everyone. It's the chance to understand me a little better, but it'll also help you understand more about Tsubaki and maybe help you in what steps you can make to level up in BB. I am aware the Q&A thread isn't used so often, but I wanted to make something which was a little more specific to me y'know.

 

Anyway, this is a WIP so let's see how this goes. Shoot.

[chzchan]

Neat. I think these are only a handful of the ones that I can come up with off the top of my head.

Someone with a good/long/fast poke blocks your 421A/j.236A in neutral and you decide not to use the time to charge and to instead take the offensive. What do you do? Is it even a good idea to try and not use the time to charge?

What are the best buttons to mash when you opponent is doing multiple jumping pressure in the corner if 2C is not fast/reliable enough to hit your opponent? Is it better to just DP?

You are in the air, falling, and facing the opposite direction of your opponent who is on the ground, what button do you push?

You successfully rapid out of the catch of one of Hakumen's D counters, what do you use to punish?

Your opponent techs a grab, what is the best course of action?

Your opponent is completely immune to conditioning and really really likes to super jump, what is the most effective way of dealing with them when pressuring?

You whiff a 6C after 623C > j.236D > j.214D, what in the hell do you do? Also which characters does this happen the most often on for you?

You land a 5A confirm with your back to the corner and no charge, what is the best way to end the combo? Is there a way to side switch out of a 5A confirm if you have heat?

You land a raw forward grab with your back touching the corner, what do you do?

Your opponent tries to punish a forward roll when you are in the corner and they guess wrong, what do you do?

What are your favorite moves to use in and out of Rapid pressure?

You successfully land a Counter Assault against an aggressor type character, is it safe to charge? What is the best course of action? Actually, hell, what do you do in the case of a disruptor?

What do you personally do against people who roll backwards all the goddamn time?

Your opponent continues to super jump relentlessly and has some pretty great air hitboxes. Do you dare try and 2C them, or do you yolo 623C?

You know your opponent will Counter Assualt when you run up to them after using Blade Super following a successful knockdown into neutral tech near the corner. What is the right course of action in baiting this properly?

Your opponent actually doesn't block a mixup correctly when under Blade Super blockstun, what is the best way to confirm this? I always drop it out of 2B regardless of what I end up doing for some reason, but this rarely ever happens.

Is Air Grab > OD ever a good idea?

Your opponent with a DP barriers the first few hits of your blockstring regardless of what it is and knows that you will go for either a 6C or a charge cancel after 5B or 5C in order to continue or try to reset pressure, what do you do? In this case, as a followup question, how many charge cancels do you usually do before you try and bait a reversal?

You active Hakumen's 236236D super counter with a projectile and successfully super jump over the unblockable attack. You were able to position yourself within grab range of the Hakumen. What do you do in this case?

If you were not allowed to use 6C in pressure against Tager, how would you approach the matchup?

As Tsubaki, what is the best option if you tech during an opponents combo timer ending forced tech reset on the ground? ...in the air? Is it better to press buttons, jump away, attempt a DP when you are on the ground, try to guess the mixup? If press buttons is the answer, which buttons should be pressed? Is it better to just not tech if you see it coming?

What is the best way to bait anti airs as Tsubaki? Should this even need to be done?

What do you feel the frame advantage table looks like after Tsubaki dashes forward following a charge cancel, 5/2A, or 2B? How much more negative is she at her shortest possible dash > 5/2A?

If you know there are holes in your opponent's pressure but 5A won't reach, is mashing 2A and attempting to get a trade a good idea if you know that the frame data will result in a trade for the opponent's specific move? Same question for 5C in the case where 2A would whiff due to the structure of the opponent's hitbox or some type of invuln on a specific part of the hitbox.

If you do trade a 5A, 2A, or 5C, what is the best course of action if you know your opponent's move does not have enough CH hitstun to continue a combo?

If your opponent is out of 5C range in pressure, is DPing usually a good idea? If your opponent is able to pressure you while being conscious of your DP and being at a range where it will whiff, what should you do?

Your opponent is conditioned to know that you usually attempt to reset pressure after a 6B by dashing forward for either a 5A or a grab and barrier blocks accordingly so that you take a longer time to get in range. They also know to look out for the visual and auditory cues of your 22B's startup which they know is 22B instead of the charge cancel animation because they know you can't charge cancel out of 6B so they don't get caught by that when trying to smack you if you do run up. What do you do in this situation after a subsequent 6B?

Your opponent comes into the match already knowing that they can DP in between 5CC and whatever the hell else you may do afterward (6B, charge cancel and dash, 236X, 214B, 22B delay) and you want to maintain pressure. You are also aware of the chance that a DP may happen. If your opponent relies on your knowledge of them having the option to DP and uses the chance to jump away after your 5CC what can you do to punish them?

I always see higher level Tsubakis charge for extended amounts of time after a knockdown in the corner and most of their opponents do not try to mash/DP while she is doing so while being so close to them. Why is this? I have tried to do it and I just get smacked. Are you supposed to try and psychologically deter them by doing a DP out of a long charge after knockdown or something once in a while? Where is the respect here derived from?

Ragna RCs after a blocked ID and does j.C, what do you do to punish this?

What is the best air normal to use out of RCing a blocked DP without having the resources to do j.214D followup?

In the Bang matchup, what do you do about them using their projectiles in the air reactively when you attempt to go for an air grab? What do you do if you fake going for an air grab and block the nails? Do you even have any safe options in this case? Is it ever a good idea to try and air grab Bang?

[Svamparn]

Hey Kiba!

 

Recently during a tournament this weekend i ran into a bunch of different matchups but one matchup that was very new for me was the Arakune matchup.

 

What's your general gameplan & thoughts about this matchup?

 

//Svampen

[Kiba]

Giving me a rough time 'ere aren't ya Chzchan? Ha.

 

 

Neat. I think these are only a handful of the ones that I can come up with off the top of my head.

Someone with a good/long/fast poke blocks your 421A/j.236A in neutral and you decide not to use the time to charge and to instead take the offensive. What do you do? Is it even a good idea to try and not use the time to charge?

 

In this case I normally use an IAD j.C, fast enough so that they cannot AA me. If I'm further I may just use something passive like jump/dash barrier because if I throw out a poke 9/10 they're gonna beat me with theirs. Sometimes it might be better to charge if you can't take advantage of the blocked fireball (too far away). If they block it in the air I may use j.AAA into more pressure, or use 2C. If 2C is barrier blocked I may followup into jump C > mixup, or delay into 22D.

What are the best buttons to mash when you opponent is doing multiple jumping pressure in the corner if 2C is not fast/reliable enough to hit your opponent? Is it better to just DP?

 

I just air grab, or use j.A if you want a faster response. I haven't considered using DP in that regard so I can't say too much there

You are in the air, falling, and facing the opposite direction of your opponent who is on the ground, what button do you push?

 

I usually hate this situation because what I want to do doesn't work. Initially I want to press barrier but j.B comes out and normally I get AA'd. I take the safest option from this, so I haven't considered using dives or using j.C on descent.

You successfully rapid out of the catch of one of Hakumen's D counters, what do you use to punish?

 

5C because it's fast and reliable. It's actually always 5C.

Your opponent techs a grab, what is the best course of action?

 

I don't really feel there is really a best option. If I feel like a character with weaker pokes will press buttons I'll press 5B. If I'm against a character with superior pokes I might air back dash or use 22B/22D to get CHs. There is also the option that they may air dash so I'll grab them or AA. It's really down to what type of player you're against and the character. If you tech the grab midscreen against Tager I would air back dash and charge unless he has spark bolt in which case I may just super jump back (because if they opt to use 2D I don't want to block that)

Your opponent is completely immune to conditioning and really really likes to super jump, what is the most effective way of dealing with them when pressuring?

 

I haven't found a concrete response to this, especially midscreen since it's easier to get away. What I normally do is something like 5BB > 2BB > 5CC with some delays there to catch the jumpers. Sometimes I might throw in 214D to catch 'em.

You whiff a 6C after 623C > j.236D > j.214D, what in the hell do you do? Also which characters does this happen the most often on for you?

 

I think maybe Hazama. Sometimes I'll opt to DP if they're not fast with the punish, but normally I get punished for this. If I don't choose to DP I'll normally resort to something passive (air back dashing, blocking, etc)

You land a 5A confirm with your back to the corner and no charge, what is the best way to end the combo? Is there a way to side switch out of a 5A confirm if you have heat?

 

I just use her standard bnb combo, or sometimes I opt for 6A resets because you can get a side switch combo from that and 5A confirms do not usually provide good results. You can do 6A > 5CC > 6BB > 214B > Micro dash 5C > 2C > 236B and get a side switch.

You land a raw forward grab with your back touching the corner, what do you do?

 

I'm out of range for any sort of followup. I'll just forward dash to maintain pressure.

Your opponent tries to punish a forward roll when you are in the corner and they guess wrong, what do you do?

 

Uh, this is difficult to answer, because I don't know what they tried to punish me with. If they tried to punish me with something with small recovery I'll block. I feel like I haven't answered this correctly so feel free to let me know.

What are your favorite moves to use in and out of Rapid pressure?

 

22D > RC > (Dash) 5C

j.214X > RC > 5A/5C

 

I wouldn't say that they are my favourite but they are the most common.

You successfully land a Counter Assault against an aggressor type character, is it safe to charge? What is the best course of action? Actually, hell, what do you do in the case of a disruptor?

 

I think one of the common habits of a Tsubaki player is to charge after a CA. I very very rarely use CAs but if I do I think the best option is to follow through with it by making offensive actions irrespective of whether you're playing against a disruptor or aggressor, so forward dashing, air dashing etc. I've found that charging puts you in an unfavourable spot and normally you're gonna pounced on again, ESPECIALLY if you were in the corner. It's somewhat ok to sit and charge against some characters, like maybe Bullet, but generally I wouldn't advise staying in the same position if you're in the corner. Midscreen it's ok.

What do you personally do against people who roll backwards all the goddamn time?

 

After midscreen knockdowns I won't normally do anything about it. If I use j.214X ender I may opt to use 236D, but that's very rare. If it's in the corner I may just use 22D or 2B.

Your opponent continues to super jump relentlessly and has some pretty great air hitboxes. Do you dare try and 2C them, or do you yolo 623C?

 

I may just use 623C, or move away from them. I'd only consider 2C if I'm like, directly underneath them. It's pretty useless against Kagura's j.C for instance and I mostly trade with Valk's j.C.

You know your opponent will Counter Assualt when you run up to them after using Blade Super following a successful knockdown into neutral tech near the corner. What is the right course of action in baiting this properly?

 

I made a video on this. I just run and barrier block, or run > jump then barrier block and punish with 5C.

Your opponent actually doesn't block a mixup correctly when under Blade Super blockstun, what is the best way to confirm this? I always drop it out of 2B regardless of what I end up doing for some reason, but this rarely ever happens.

 

I just go into 5C. jump > air dash j.CC goes into 5C, empty jump 2B goes into 5C. The only other option is to go for a throw which can confirm into better options.

Is Air Grab > OD ever a good idea?

 

Of course. It's good for taking the game if your opponent has a burst.

Your opponent with a DP barriers the first few hits of your blockstring regardless of what it is and knows that you will go for either a 6C or a charge cancel after 5B or 5C in order to continue or try to reset pressure, what do you do? In this case, as a followup question, how many charge cancels do you usually do before you try and bait a reversal?

 

If I charge cancel after 5B/5C I'll use dash barrier. If I've used 6C, well, they probably would've DP'd by that time, or if not I just back away. I start off by using one charge cancel, and then once I use dash barrier, if they haven't pressed a button or DP, I'll just resume pressure. I don't have a set number of charge cancels I'll use.

 

You active Hakumen's 236236D super counter with a projectile and successfully super jump over the unblockable attack. You were able to position yourself within grab range of the Hakumen. What do you do in this case?

 

Back away (and charge). I always almost do that. I haven't familiarised myself with the timing of that move so I don't try to use throws or other attacks because I have been hit/thrown out of them. When/if I do get comfortable with it, I'll use throws.

If you were not allowed to use 6C in pressure against Tager, how would you approach the matchup?

 

Something I've discussed a lot of times but I'm gonna put it simply. Poking with 5B and backing away and charging. Throwing fireballs, occasionally using 5B > IAD crossup j.B mixup. Don't play to aggressive.

As Tsubaki, what is the best option if you tech during an opponents combo timer ending forced tech reset on the ground? ...in the air? Is it better to press buttons, jump away, attempt a DP when you are on the ground, try to guess the mixup? If press buttons is the answer, which buttons should be pressed? Is it better to just not tech if you see it coming?

 

This, depends on which character we are talking about. Don't remember being in this type of situation, but I have been in situation where I'm staggered and I have to choose to tech or not tech. This example is Bang. Sometimes I tech, sometimes I don't, but if I do tech I won't press buttons. You're not in a favourable position to do that and he'll just get CH. Sometimes I'll mash DP. If it's against Kokonoe you won't get the option to press buttons, and retaliating with a DP is gonna lose to whatever she's done/doing. You'll have to tech and block it. If you don't tech, you're giving her free hits. If I tech in the air I try to barrier block. I'm very wary of players going for air grab or anti air resets. If I have enough time I may just use j.214X to get out of it.

 

What is the best way to bait anti airs as Tsubaki? Should this even need to be done?

 

Usually doesn't need to be done. The character I mostly do this against is Valk, where I'll tap j.D then use falling j.C. Other times I may use j.214X.

What do you feel the frame advantage table looks like after Tsubaki dashes forward following a charge cancel, 5/2A, or 2B? How much more negative is she at her shortest possible dash > 5/2A?

 

Isn't this is the strategy guide? Sorry I don't know this off the top of my head and I'm pretty bad at working out frames like that.

If you know there are holes in your opponent's pressure but 5A won't reach, is mashing 2A and attempting to get a trade a good idea if you know that the frame data will result in a trade for the opponent's specific move? Same question for 5C in the case where 2A would whiff due to the structure of the opponent's hitbox or some type of invuln on a specific part of the hitbox.

 

I use 5B or 5C to get a trade or a successful hit, but I normaly only do this after IBs.

If you do trade a 5A, 2A, or 5C, what is the best course of action if you know your opponent's move does not have enough CH hitstun to continue a combo?

 

Sometimes I press 5B, sometimes I just block.

If your opponent is out of 5C range in pressure, is DPing usually a good idea? If your opponent is able to pressure you while being conscious of your DP and being at a range where it will whiff, what should you do?

 

I do the most silliest things when I feel someone is trying to bait my DP. I'd do run up 6A, run up throw/command grab, or just air dash past them. It works for me but I ONLY do all that if I feel someone is gonna try and bait my DP. It's a habit you should not rely on.

 

If they're out of 5C range I'll block, DP isn't always the best option. As a general note, the only real time I DP as a reversal is when someone is close and I IB stuff.

Your opponent is conditioned to know that you usually attempt to reset pressure after a 6B by dashing forward for either a 5A or a grab and barrier blocks accordingly so that you take a longer time to get in range. They also know to look out for the visual and auditory cues of your 22B's startup which they know is 22B instead of the charge cancel animation because they know you can't charge cancel out of 6B so they don't get caught by that when trying to smack you if you do run up. What do you do in this situation after a subsequent 6B?

 

Yeah, in this situation I may just use IAD j.C or just let it end there or with a 22D. I lose to mashing in those cases.

Your opponent comes into the match already knowing that they can DP in between 5CC and whatever the hell else you may do afterward (6B, charge cancel and dash, 236X, 214B, 22B delay) and you want to maintain pressure. You are also aware of the chance that a DP may happen. If your opponent relies on your knowledge of them having the option to DP and uses the chance to jump away after your 5CC what can you do to punish them?

 

I swear they can only DP in between 5CC on IB? In which case I'll just 5BB > 2BB > 5CC. Sometimes I'll deliberately put myself out of range so that I go for a 421A. If they haven't DP'd at that stage I'll use dash barrier, and if they still haven't DP'd at that time, I may go for a throw. Otherwise, I punish the DP accordingly. So this is similar to what I said above about using charge cancel > dash barrier.  I use dash barrier in my game a lot.

I always see higher level Tsubakis charge for extended amounts of time after a knockdown in the corner and most of their opponents do not try to mash/DP while she is doing so while being so close to them. Why is this? I have tried to do it and I just get smacked. Are you supposed to try and psychologically deter them by doing a DP out of a long charge after knockdown or something once in a while? Where is the respect here derived from?

 

I charge long enough so that I retain pressure after they tech. If you're getting smacked, it sounds like you're charging for too long. You can do this against anyone and you don't have to exactly build respect here. If using this for the first time the opponent may think they can punish you, but what happens is that you just get CH. I dunno why they don't DP, it'll work unless a Tsubaki charges and then blocks but that's not one of the top options.

Ragna RCs after a blocked ID and does j.C, what do you do to punish this?

 

I don't do anything but block, you can't punish that since he has the advantage. He's going to retain pressure after a blocked j.C or in the case where you pressed a button, you've given him a free combo due to his frame trap.

What is the best air normal to use out of RCing a blocked DP without having the resources to do j.214D followup?

 

I use j.C. 623C > RC > j.C is a good frame trap.

In the Bang matchup, what do you do about them using their projectiles in the air reactively when you attempt to go for an air grab? What do you do if you fake going for an air grab and block the nails? Do you even have any safe options in this case? Is it wen a good idea to try and air grab Bang?

 

There isn't much you can do you know, I just block, and I can't even remember a time where I have air grabbed Bang successfully.

 

 

Hey Kiba!

 

Recently during a tournament this weekend i ran into a bunch of different matchups but one matchup that was very new for me was the Arakune matchup.

 

What's your general gameplan & thoughts about this matchup?

 

//Svampen

 

This is a matchup I don't play very often so I can only offer a really limited view on this, not to mention I only really play Arakunes online so my advice my be a little distorted. Match start my option is always to back away and obtain some charge. If you're full screen away I don't think the ground bug will catch you so charging at that range is fine? otherwise you may have to keep moving. The bug can give him a combo and possibly put you in the corner. The reason I kinda prioritise charging is because 421D > 236D is useful for getting around bugs. Neutral is ok against Arakune, but if he's in the air, I feel that Tsubaki does pretty badly against him air to air to ground to air. I've seen the JP Tsubaki players play and they don't seem to care about the cloud he summons, whereas I try to avoid getting hit by that because I don't like contributing factors to his curse gauge. As a matter of fact, sometimes if he's just about to get me into curse mode, I'll just burst.

 

With regards to pressure, I use fast methods because his 5A is good for poking you out of stuff. I also don't like guessing with the venasaur super when he has meter so I try to end with 22D > 6C > Delay 421A oki were possible or use blade super. His comeback game is quite high I think so what you wanna do is really limit is options once you've knocked him down.

[Airk]

Your opponent comes into the match already knowing that they can DP in between 5CC and whatever the hell else you may do afterward (6B, charge cancel and dash, 236X, 214B, 22B delay) and you want to maintain pressure. You are also aware of the chance that a DP may happen. If your opponent relies on your knowledge of them having the option to DP and uses the chance to jump away after your 5CC what can you do to punish them?

 

I think he meant AFTER 5CC, not between 5C and 5CC.

 

My personal suggestion there is the Charge Cancel -> Microdash -> Barrier, much as Kiba suggested for the other DP bait scenario.

[chzchan]

Giving me a rough time 'ere aren't ya Chzchan? Ha.

 

You ain't seen nothing yet. Those were mostly questions I added in on my phone before I went to sleep.

 

And also, 5CC > 6B is definitely not gapless on non-IB. There's a 3-4 frame gap and I know this because I take advantage of it all the time in the Tsubaki vs Tsubaki matchup. My Hakumen buddy likes to 2D there if I am autopiloting 5CC > 6B and he does not need to IB.

 

And as for the question about frame advantage I was just asking how you feel. I wasn't looking for what the true numbers are, but what you feel they are. For instance, if you end a pressure string with 6B and you are in the face of your opponent and they do not IB, you can immediately start up 5A without dashing forward and the +1 that 6B leaves you at is a true +1 as in your opponent would need a jab faster than 4 frames in order to hit you out of the 5A that you use.

 

So like if you charge cancel out of 5B and then use 5B while in place, you are at true -2, but if you charge cancel out of 5B and then dash forward to 5B again, you are definitely not at -2, but at a much greater negative, so your opponent will have much longer than the 12 frame (-2 frame advantage and 10 frame 5B startup) window you would think using 5B after a charge cancelled 5B would leave. That is all I was referring to.

 

This is very valuable information to me at least. I look forward to more and more responses in the future. Really, thanks for doing this.

[Kiba]

Ah I see (@both of you).

 

A common one I use is 5C > charge cancel Kara throw. 5C > CC is normally -2 and I don't want to be too disadvantaged so that's why the kara throw is used. Using dash throw would be even worse. 5C > CC > 5C is another, and I tend to use that about 2-3 times before going into 5CC frame trap. Hope that helps a little.

 

Also, no problem! Just glad it helps.

[chzchan]

Against non-zoner characters who can destroy your projectiles with their normals while moving forward, what do you do to change your strategy?

 

I'm talking about characters like Noel, Hakumen, Terumi, etc. These are probably the worst of the worst (non-zoner/setplay) offenders, though.

[Kiba]

The solution is pretty simple, you just play as if you don't have a projectile. Generally it means you'll be playing a little more aggressive in such matchups, or you just may be moving around more than usual (air dashing, dashing etc). I can focus on a lot more on charging too which is nice. Against Noel it's a little tricky to use a fireball since you can get caught out with optic barrel. Terumi is very fast, and it's useless against Hakumen because using it will just limit your approach.

 

Tager is the exception since he can be punished for trying to neutralise the projectile in neutral, and he's slow.

[Monarch]

What can I do to vary my pressure options? I usually just stick to 5A stagger pressure once I'm in, if that doesn't work I move on to 5BB > stuff. But a lot of times they're already free by the time I'm done with that.

[Kiba]

What can I do to vary my pressure options? I usually just stick to 5A stagger pressure once I'm in, if that doesn't work I move on to 5BB > stuff. But a lot of times they're already free by the time I'm done with that.

 

If you want a basic understanding of pressure variation please read the Tsubaki 101 and charge cancel sections: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/6413-cp11-tsubaki-yayoi-strategy-guide/

 

5A stagger is good because it allows you to set up a ton of options. You can go for throws, command grabs, 6A (not recommended after multiple 5As). The throws would be even more effective if you can use kara throws. You can setup 5A > 5B frame traps if the opponent tries to become a little mashy, but if not you can cycle your way through the above 3 options. On the topic of frame traps remember to use delayed gatlings against mashy players. Her frame traps are actually kinda good. There's a lot of mindgames involved with stagger 5A since your opponent is generally not going to know what you do unless you're predictable. You're essentially choosing between trying to catch them out for mashing, or gaining their respect and going for 6A / throws / command grabs. You may find that multiple 2As are better to use because it's harder for your opponent to mash in between them. 5A is -2, 2A is 0.

 

Charge cancel pressure is pretty nice. I myself like to use 5B / 5BB / 5C > CC into kara throws or command grabs. The reason I use it from these normals is because you still have many other options from those normals (exception being 5C, 5C > CC is kinda safe). 5CC > CC is good because it's 0 but you won't be able to accomplish much with it because 9 times out of 10 you're gonna be out of range to do anything real good, so you'll have to dash a little and you'll be prone to mashing. Most people become much more mashy after 5CC > CC because as I said Tsubaki has very limited followup options from those. You don't have to use charge cancels into throws / command grabs, you can even do it into more pressure. This is one of the good traits about Tsubaki, her pressure is flexible, go nuts (within reason). Not only are they good for trying to stay on top of your opponent too, you make your B / C normals safer and you gain charge in the process.

 

6C special cancel can be alright to use on the occasional basis, but it's really down to how much your opponent knows you and / or Tsubaki. The typical thing to do after blocked 6C is jump, but if your opponent suspects you'll do that, you can use 6C > 214D to catch jump outs or 6C > 22D to catch mashers etc. You can even do 6C > command grab but your opponent will have to really rely on blocking for that to succeed. You've also gotta make sure they don't barrier, you'll be out of range.

 

Barrier actually kills most of Tsubaki's pressure so it's best to keep the strings short using 5A stagger and charge cancels where you have to. Going into 2BB > 5CC is going to get you out of range and the opponent has the chance to escape. If you do find yourself moving out of range you can use 421A to stay and stick to them if they stay still. A more important thing to note is that you don't need to do anything too complex / out of the ordinary to win, you can stick with the basics. As a summary, I highly recommend using the following:

 

-Kara throws: The range is deceptive and Tsubaki can normally deal good damage from it. Abuse it if you have to, it's about keeping the opponent on their toes.

-Command grabs: Again just to keep your opponent on their toes but obviously it's less effective than doing kara throws.

-Occasional jump cancels into mixup: You can do j.C > 2B (slow and not too effective), j.CC(delay) or j.C > throw / command grab

-Incorporating charge cancels: For extended pressure

-Using 6B: Again helps to set stuff up against non IBs

 

Then you have other things which are specific or optional such as:

-Delayed gatlings for frame traps against mashers

-421A fireball pressure (Don't build a reliance as you're just using it to stay on top from a distance. You have better options when you're in their face)

-Air dash crossup into j.B / j.C: Konan does this a lot for example

 

Konan is the player to watch if you want to get more ideas on varying pressure. He does a lot of good stuff. I also have some old videos which could help too. Don't just watch the video once. Watch it multiple times and maybe try and get an understanding of why a player used a certain blockstring or mixup.

[chzchan]

From all of this as well as my own experience, Tsubaki relies a lot on the opponent trying to hit buttons (and not DP or use counters) while under pressure in order to get her game to work. You need your opponent to attack you or at least believe that their defensive options are more limited than they actually are for Tsubaki to even work as a character.

What if instead of hitting buttons, people jump? I know I ask this a lot and I will continue to because it is incredibly frustrating to deal with. It makes hard matchups immensely more difficult. It completely blows up a lot of your offensive options unless you hard call stuff, especially if they are using barrier all the time.

For example, I know this Bang player I fight pretty often and if I ever charge cancel he super jumps, back dashes, and most likely throws a poison nail. What the hell do you do if they wait for the visual cues in order to excercise this simple and effective defensive option against Tsubaki?

[Kiba]

From all of this as well as my own experience, Tsubaki relies a lot on the opponent trying to hit buttons while under pressure in order to get her game to work. You need your opponent to attack you or at least believe that their defensive options are more limited than they actually are for Tsubaki to even work as a character.

What if instead of hitting buttons, people jump? I know I ask this a lot and I will continue to because it is incredibly frustrating to deal with. It makes hard matchups immensely more difficult. It completely blows up a lot of your offensive options unless you hard call stuff, especially if they are using barrier all the time.

For example, I know this Bang player I fight pretty often and if I ever charge cancel he super jumps, back dashes, and most likely throws a poison nail. What the hell do you do if they wait for the visual cues in order to excercise this simple and effective defensive option against Tsubaki?

 

I would just incorporate 214D into my pressure. For instance if you're doing 5CC > CC and he's jumping away, try 5CC > 214D, should work! If you want to catch the backdashes you may have to risk using 236D sometimes. Delay 22D can also work against them if you have them in corner, but the effectiveness of that varies with the character you are playing against, since they have different backdashes.

These methods involve you use charge, and if you don't have any, there is very little you can do. Against backdashes you could try something like charge cancels into IAD j.C stuff to stay on top of them. You may even catch their backdash with that. I mean if you have him in the corner then you can try something like, 5CC > CC > super jump throw too I guess. Unfortunately, most times, It's very easy to jump out of Tsubaki's pressure. That doesn't necessarily mean it's your fault; it's just because of the way Tsubaki is designed. She can get disrespected alot so you shouldn't blame yourself.

 

I play someone who likes to jump on wakeup alot, so I always try meaty 2B (can be hard) / 5C or just jump and grab them on their wakeup (The latter is definitely a guess).

[chzchan]

Do you have a set game plan that you go for generally and then deviate depending on certain responses from your opponent or the degree of trust you have in your opponent after a few trials?

 

For example, I always go for the 236B > Etc. reset at the beginning of the round on the first standing confirm I get and then start the conditioning from there depending on the response from the other player. If they block high I go for a 2B or 5A>2B if I think they may mash. If they block low afterwards without mashing I go for a command grab or kara grab. If they mash, I know to use 22B frame trap next time or 623C. If they jump after they notice I end the combo early, I stop going for this reset completely and just continue the combo. I do some rapid shenanigans or other shenanigans as well if I really really trust my opponent. Leaving the opponent in a standing state is something I always aim for because maintaining pressure on people after knockdown outside of the corner is impossible. I try to get in as many resets as possible before my opponent knows what hit them.

 

Things like this. They don't necessarily have to be oriented around resets. What are your general conditioning plans?

[Kiba]

Ah I see! Interesting. Well let's see.

 

5A / 2A combo starters are kinda bad, so occasionally I'll opt for 6A resets (Konan does this do) because 6A is much more rewarding. Of course I don't rely on this, and if I play someone who is familiar with I may just delay 2B, or if it's midscreen, I may end the combo with 22B. So I'll do combo > 214B > tap charge then use Dash 2B in the attempt to catch rolls. I know she has the 2BB crossup on a players wakeup, but I barely use this.

 

With the rekka combo enders in the corner, I slightly delay the 22B so that it whiffs. It's good because if the opponent techs immediately, I can go for command grab / throw / 5C CH resets. If they don't tech immediately the 22B will blue beat. It's good against those who think that I'm at a disadvantage after whiffing 22B. (Kazu@Ginga has shown this in his combo movie).

 

As for a set gameplan, if I don't know anything about the opponent I'm playing against I may generally be a little more passive, but not so passive that I'm in the punching bag and I'm just merely watching you know. I want to scout to see what they're capable of and assess how strong their are in aspects (neutral, combos, pressure etc). I normally take the safest option match start, which is just to back away and see what they do. With pressure, I wouldn't go for frame traps straight away, I'd go for my usual gameplan involving kara throws and charge cancel mixup. If I see that the opponent isn't mashy, I can then start to use command grabs (I actually don't use command grabs as much as I should).

If I know the characteristics of a player I'll be thinking about their usual habits, so yeah:

-This person likes to press buttons at the start of a match but 22B can beat it;

-This person likes to counter assault immediately when I have him down, so baiting it is key;

-This person bursts as soon as I touch them so again baiting it is key

 

Stuff like that you know. I think the more familiar I am with a player, the more aggressive I'll be. In casuals or online matches it's fine, you have all the time in the world to try and realise a players characteristics, but in a tournament, things are different. I've always said to a few people and myself that in a tournament I should aim to get a good grasp of a player's habits within a match or less (sometimes for myself I say within a round). Anything more would be too late, especially if you're already going 0-1. It's not unreasonable for me since I adapt quickly, but it varies with the individual. If you're surrounded by players who have bad habits you're gonna have a lot of expectations for those bad traits and it'll take you longer to adapt when it comes to new good players. You'll be so used to that stuff. So you've gotta train yourself with better players if that's possible. Hope all that makes sense.

[chzchan]

It makes complete sense. I'll take all this to heart. As a Tsubaki player I think that learning the player as quickly as possible is a skill that is almost required to play her and have a chance. I need to be able to form a profile of my opponent faster than they can form one of me and fast enough to minimize the amount of health and screen placement I have to risk or even give up in order to form the profile. Then I need to be able to efficiently take advantage of the profile information with the resources and positioning I may have once I complete the profile.

 

This is actually why I play like a retard sometimes and do a bunch of really really stupid shenanigans that no Tsubaki or player would ever do. I want to make it harder for my opponent to form their own profile of me. This doesn't end up helping me as much as I would like it to right now, though. I am still trying to figure out more really stupid things to do that don't end up screwing me over.

 

There's a huge problem with this, though. If you aren't able to trust your opponent, all of this gets thrown out the window.

[Kiba]

A lot of people do find random players difficult to deal with. It'll make people second guess their options and then they may start to become more cautious and passive. Example, I actually hate playing random players with Valk because Tsubaki's 'random' stuff can catch out Valk a lot since he can't block in wolf. If I were using Kokonoe however I wouldn't really mind because I can stay far and do stuff.

[Rayfui]

Kiba how do you wolf break W.JA using a pad controller .? As a valk player its the only thing I'm missing to complete my wolf mix up game

Sent from my LG-MS695 using Tapatalk 2

[Kiba]

Kiba how do you wolf break W.JA using a pad controller .? As a valk player its the only thing I'm missing to complete my wolf mix up game

Sent from my LG-MS695 using Tapatalk 2

 

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/8466-cp11-valkenhayn-video-thread-updated-81614/?p=824035

 

Sorry, since this is the Tsubaki forum I want to keep it specific to her lol.

[chzchan]

Relius has knocked you down in the corner and has begun the unblockable setup. From the few rounds that you have fought him you know that he either goes for the setup with a j.B after the Ignis yoyo or does a double jump to make your DP whiff.

 

What do you do?

[Kiba]

I would delay neutral tech

[chzchan]

Damn. Sometimes I completely forget about that, especially when my back is to the corner. It'll turn into a blue combo right?

With tech in mind right now, generally, what tech do you exercise the most? Just generally. Or do you change everything on the fly or depending on the matchup. Actually hell, I don't know why you wouldn't. I guess this isn't too Tsubaki specific, but more of a you as a player thing.

Are there any special situations where using a certain type of tech or defensive option would help out in a way that most people don't realize?

[Kiba]

Blue beat or whiff as you delay tech.

 

I exercise neutral teching the most, but I've actually been stabbing myself about this because I do it so often and give players the chance to do whatever mixup they want. I can be quite honest in blocking sometimes, I should really roll backwards more (if I'm midscreen), but I have been delay teching more depending on the oki (if it's Valk/Kokonoe I delay I tech). Very rarely I use quick getup, and because most people don't expect me to do this it can work.

 

Delay teching helps alot against characters who setup things up immediately to get their game going, so Kokonoe, Relius and Carl would be going choices when they have you in the corner. Delay teching is also useful where players opt for a safe jump setup. The disadvantage with delay teching is that when it comes to SMP routes the untechable time will be much lower so you're more prone to OTG resets. They don't even have to use SMP, as there are some attacks which don't inflict a lot of untechable time, Kokonoe 6B(1) maybe?

[Airk]

Delay Neutral tech is HUGE against Carl.

[Kiba]

Yeah it was definitely one of the things I learnt during EVO. Daedron has also been giving good advice on this too.