Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

MikelAL93

[P4AU] Margaret Combo Thread

Recommended Posts

Does something meterless combo? I need a good starter for this combo I'm developing, and I think I'm onto a damaging route, and I'd love it to be meterless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't found anything. I'm sure we'd be exploiting it for the BnB route if we had one by now. I may be wrong though.

EDIT: You can combo j2D into j22C with tight timing, if that helps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So what I'm understanding is that you're looking for ways to combo into 2C without needing a counterhit? 

Generally you'll need a resource for an OMC after a move that launches on hit or using an untechable move. To my knowledge there aren't any feasible meterless routes that don't use counterhits.

Any OMB will give you access to 2C without fail because it's untechable until they land. It is very much the beginning of the end because it will quickly go into Hassou Tobi with only a narrow margin of a chance to burst and you can space yourself to be safe from blowback. You can also do the same counterhit combo followups after 2C, and an easy way to finish off someone if you avoided a burst.

236236C tornado is a common way to follow up with 2C. 214A starter > 236236C > 2C often connects for substantial damage, however remember that slide and 236236C have bad follow-up proration so they may tech before 2C is linked if the moves were added in the middle of a combo or from a bad starter.

Ex: 214A 236236C > 2C 2D > airdash j.22C 66 214C > 2B(4) j.2C dj.9C j.2B > 214214AB (with another 75 meter)

236236CD tornado is fully untechable regards of starter so you just have to move slightly forward and 2C should always connect as they fall in range. It also absorbs through bursts once the tornado is active. It's an easy finisher into Hassou Tobi for at least 4.5k-5k depending on the starter.

Ex: 2A 5C 5B 236236CD > run forward 2C 2D > airdash j.22C 214A 214214A

j236CD will work if you are at a low enough height. You'll see Lord Knight do OMB combos where he will do j2B and then cancel into a very low j236CD have access to damage for at least 25 meter. I have also seen this work from airthrow > falling j.C > j236CD.

Corner Throw > OMC 2C works and has a rather wide range as long as you can get the wallbounce in the corner. The blowback is so strong that if buffer a run after the OMC you can actually run behind it and still get a corner wallbounce from slightly past halfscreen.

  • Throw OMC > 2C 2D j.22C 214C 2B(4) > j.C j.2C > 9 j.C j.2B > SB Hassou gives ~5.3K for throw.

214B OMC works as said before and works anywhere, it's an okay way to finish someone off while getting corner carry momentum. 214B has bad proration so consider that.

236CD corner wallstick is a great one for only 25 meter and significant damage but in 1.1 it only works on about half the cast (obstensibly "tall" characters, I have them listed in the opening page) if they are pushed directly in the corner. So it requires specific spacing away from the corner if you want to do it to everyone else and it's sort of demanding in a fast-paced game.

(j.B j.C) j214A OMC > 2C will work either midscreen or corner and hitconfirms from either j.B (a decent airturn crossup button) or the following j.C if they got fuzzyguarded. Most people will block this since it's so often seen but it can catch people trying to switchblock/input something in blockstun since j.B j.C is always a true blockstring.

  • (j.B j.C) j214A OMC 2C 2D > j.22C 214C 2B(4) > (j.C j.2C) dj.C j.2B > SB Hassou also works but adjust the hits after 2B(4) based on the starting hit to get your correct number.

236D OMC > running 2C works on any crouching confirm into 236D anywhere for at least 3.5 easily and often confirms into Hassou Tobi. Naturally j.C is one of the best starters for hitting crouchers but our 2A and 5B also hit many others trying to outmash you with their 2A. If you do it midscreen, you have to prepare to move forward during the OMC to line the 2C properly. If you're in the corner, you can move back during the OMC to stay burst safe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Jon Miller said:

 

I haven't found anything. I'm sure we'd be exploiting it for the BnB route if we had one by now. I may be wrong though.

EDIT: You can combo j2D into j22C with tight timing, if that helps.

Slight double post, but can you explain?

j2D iceball starter into j.22C?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Jon Miller said:

 

I haven't found anything. I'm sure we'd be exploiting it for the BnB route if we had one by now. I may be wrong though.

EDIT: You can combo j2D into j22C with tight timing, if that helps.

Slight double post, but can you explain?

j2D iceball starter into j.22C?

It is possible, but the timing is super strict. I'll try and post a video tomorrow but you can get a j22C after the ice ball connects. It's probably not realistic as a starter but it's an option I want to try to explore.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Iceball is a fairly low starter for Margaret standards. But the hilarity of Margaret is that she can ad lib combos anywhere on the spot. Even with iceball CH, she can combo with j.B or j.C into some string ending with 214A or 214B > 2B(4) > j.2C > j.214B and still get oki with a lot of meter gain so it's not worthless at all if the situation occurs.

I didn't think iceball > j.22C combo like that without counterhit although I expected it to be height/timing dependent.

Just on observing iceball, j.22C, and God Hand it looks like it should be fairly prorated and probably needs j214AB to have the untechable knockdown so 3K is probably your damage cap on that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cool, glad to know it's not useless tech lmao. Hope that it might help Lelouch with his combo routing, but it might be better to just try for situational 2C starter.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2C is also a "poor" starter. It Fatal Counters but its first-hit proration is actually rather high (again for Margaret standards) and the recovery and spacing might leave you with just enough time to get 2D or another move to pickup.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, quick question, since I'm here. I'm having trouble with the OTG 5B in the basic CH BnB, but can easily get 2B. Any tips for adjusting my timing on the j22C > 214C ? I think that's where I'm dropping it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you want to OTG with 5B, you have to hit God Hand at basically the highest point possible and you need to be close so you have enough time to recover and hit 5B because it's slower than 2B (10 frames vs 7 frames). That's why I try to annotate the 66 part with 214C to emphasize staying close. It's also easier in the corner.

The damage difference isn't /that/ big but it does cross over important numbers. Ex: CH 2B > ~3.9K with 2B OTG, near 4.1K with 5B. CH 5C is around 4.3 w/2B while 5B gives you ~4.6 (over half health of everyone except Kanji and Akihiko).

If you're netplaying, 5B is in my opinion very easy to drop although definitely practice it if you'd like to train execution and it is definitely the most optimal route.

You can also OTG 2B 5B 5C to pick them up from a considerable distance if you think you're too far away and use superjump j.B j.C late j.D j.214B for the same advantageous knockdown.

It's a good idea to mention if you think your positioning is off for a combo then see if there's a way to salvage it instead of losing the entire thing. But always check what parts you're having difficulty with to avoid the situation in the first place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does anyone know Margaret's burst safe combos? Playing against more experienced opponents they tend to know Margaret will do quite a bit of damage on the meterless CH combo (Involving Gods hand) and usually burst once I get going on that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, JYaham95 said:

Does anyone know Margaret's burst safe combos? Playing against more experienced opponents they tend to know Margaret will do quite a bit of damage on the meterless CH combo (Involving Gods hand) and usually burst once I get going on that. 

She has a few different ways to make her combos burst safe but they're usually pretty specific to the situation so it's not worth learning them individually. I think it's best to just kind of learn why they're burst safe and then try to make it up as you go in actual matches. Maybe I'm weird though.

For the most part, burst safe combos involve being far enough away from the opponent that their burst won't hit you. I know it sounds like common sense, but you really should be keeping it in mind, particularly when you are about to jump cancel in your combo. j.C and j.2C are so large that you can out-space the burst, while still hitting with them. This is why in the corner, you might see margaret players walk backwards after connecting with 2D, before they continue their kill combo. The idea is to start the aerial portion of your combo from far enough away that you will out-space their burst, and then neutral jump during your combo to keep your positioning. (IE: XXX > 2C > 2D backdash > 5A > 5C > neutral jump j.C j.2C double jump j.C > j.2C > j.214B, same idea as using 2D backdash 5D > 5A > 5C > etc.)

To be honest, few of margarets combos (ignoring those using an OMB) are 100% burst safe, but if you are mindful of your spacing at the points where you have the option to be burst-safe, you can limit when they can use their burst. Players unfamiliar with how her combos work will often give you their bursts for free. More knowledgeable players are still limited to bursting at the points where you are close to them (such as when you would use god-hand), and this makes burst baiting at these points more of a viable option.

I hope this helped a little bit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/15/2015 at 3:01 PM, JYaham95 said:

Does anyone know Margaret's burst safe combos? Playing against more experienced opponents they tend to know Margaret will do quite a bit of damage on the meterless CH combo (Involving Gods hand) and usually burst once I get going on that. 

To build a bit on Rath's post (and for simplicity's sake):

Basically, once you reach certain points in Margaret's combos, her combos become burst safe.

 

With the above in mind, you can segment it as such:

  • Standard combos are not burst safe.
  • Her main CH/High damage combo route (xx > 2C > 2D) can be made burst safe many ways, which Rath outlined (which is, generally spacing yourself to stand outside of the opponent's burst range).
  • Death combo parts (with Hassou) can be made burst safe.
  • C > SB Tornado > etc is almost always burst safe.
  • OMB > Hassou parts can be made burst safe.

 

Some examples:

Corner -  CH > 2C > 2D > (adjust spacing) 5D > (adjust spacing) 5A 5C > J2C > dj jC J2C > J236C > fastest special cancel SB Tornado > [2C > Hassou or Hassou]

This combo is burst safe once the 2D connects. If you're far away enough at the start, the whole thing is burst safe.

Midscreen - 3 hits > SB Tornado (from this point it's burst safe) > 2C > 2D > J22C > land 2C > Hassou

Corner - 3 hits > OMB (burst safe point) > 2D > (adjust) 5D > (adjust) 5A 5C > J2C > dj JC J2C > J236C > fastest SB Tornado > [2C > Hassou or Hassou]

Sorry for the messy formatting.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×