[P4AU] Margaret Combo Thread

[Fortune]

Definitely appreciate that, i've been struggling with some confirms and having context puts it all in perspective.

[Jon Miller]

This is amazing <3

[Inahk]

Made a few updates, added j.2B combos, non-CH 2C punish combos, 5A anti air combos, Sweep starters and probably some other things I forgot.

 

I'm not sure what to try and look for next. I was trying to see if there was any way to make a Fatal CH 2C do more than the typical CH 5C route, but it doesn't seem like it. Even with the cute stuff you can do with fatal, 2C is too much worse of a starter.

 

I think there might be some ways to add 236CD into some of the other Hassou Tobi combos to improve them slightly, I'll check that at some point.

[Inahk]

More updates, did some more research into why hits of 236D sometimes whiff when pushed against the edge of the screen, (Its quite different from 236CD, and not character specific), and added a much more detailed description of it relating to the "Full Screen 2C" combos. I'm using these a lot, mixing up 2C with 5D and Sweep off far knockdowns. If you get a 2C hit, you get 2700 damage and loop back into the same situation, while Margaret isn't even close.

 

[Edit: Forgot to mention, you can use 236D if they delayed tech to pick them up off the ground and tack on some more damage.]

 

Also spent more time trying to find a good Hassou Tobi conversion off of reversal SB Panta Rhei, but couldn't come up with anything except spending your OMB for a slight improvement. Added it to the OMB section anyway. The normal combo off it is great damage anyway.

 

I've weaned myself off the 214B, OMC, 2C, 2D route now, with 214A, 236236C, 2C, 2D totally replacing it, way better once you get that down. Or just spend more on SB's, like using 236CD on standing or j.214AB on anti air/air to air for big extensions and fullscreen knockdowns into the situation mentioned at the start.

[Fortune]

You're a genius. 

 

Now if only I can master how to confirm those and train myself actual setups to lead into them 

[Schneider-X]

Does anyone have tips on performing the burst safe CH combo?

 

CH 5C, 2C, 2D, j.22C, 5A, 5C, jc, j.C, j.2C, jc, j.C, j.2C, j.214AB, 214A, 214214A

 

I've tried recording the combo and I can burst and hit margaret while she's doing 5A but it'll be outside of the j.C range.  Does anyone have any tips or a visual reference for the proper spacing, preferably for midscreen?

[Inahk]

I'm not sure if its possible to have it be 100% burst safe midscreen, as you jump forward to follow the opponent with the air series, you get closer before pushing them back with the next normal, so they can burst at those points and barely reach Margaret. If it is, the spacing is incredibly precise.

 

For the corner spacing, pick the boss stage, the altar with the statues in the background. Push the screen to the corner, then stand on top of the third statue from the corner, and don't move from that spot after the j.22C, neutral jumps only.

[rubedo777]

I have some questions/comments about some of the combos in Inahk's combo list...
 

2A, 5C, 5B, 5AAAAA, 214A [1605, 0 Meter] (Alternate chain route from 2A, does more damage but if blocked the situation is a little different after 5A compared 5C, with Margaret closer to the opponent.)

 

Honestly I think this is the best meterless route...the 5Ax5 gives a lot of meter and burst back. The only risk for me I notice is that sometimes the 5A whiffs on crouchers (depending on distance), which can be punished if people are aware.

 

 

2A, 5C, 5B, 5AAAAA, 236D, 5C, jc, j.2C, jc, j.2C, j.236C [2547, 0 Meter] (The 5A chain lets you combo into slower specials if you time the cancel perfectly, but the proration here means you cant get a knockdown at the end. Trades knockdown for damage.)

 

 

The problem I'm having with this combo is that I always seem to be out of range for 236D. I tried late and early cancelling the normals before it and just isn't working. What's the trick?

 

2A, 5C, 5B, 236CD, dash, 5C, jc, j.2C, jc, j.2C, j.214B [2465, 25 Meter] (2A version of the above. There is no time to delay the cancel of 5B to let yourself get closer here, so you have to dash after the 236CD for 5C to reach.)

 

 

Nice, I had tried this before and the second 5C wasn't hitting and just assumed it wasn't possible...didn't know you could dash up and reach in time.

 

5B, 5A, 5B, 5C, 214B, OMC, 2C, 2D, j.22C, 214C, 2B(4), j.C, j.2C, j.214AB [3843, 75 Meter] (Same as above, for another 25 you can tack on some more damage and get a better knockdown.)

 

Evertime I do this combo, I get 3793 damage...how are you getting 50 more? Mine is doing 21 hits, the 2B is doing 4 hits as stated.

[Inahk]

For the first two, let your 5B travel as far as possible before you 5A to get closer to the target.

 

For the last one, I may have left CH on by accident and was getting an extra 50 damage on the 5B starter. Oops! I'll edit it.

[rubedo777]

Some additional questions...

 

2B(4), j.2C, jc, j.C, j.2C, j.214B [1972, 0 Meter]

 

You can add in a jB after the jc, for additional damage. It also makes your combo travel further and possibly closer to the corner. The damage is 2058 and the opponent doesn't seem to tech any less faster after the j214B so I'm not sure why the jB is missing.

 

2B(4), j.2C, jc, j.C, j.2C, j.214AB, 5C, jc, j.2C, jc, j.2C, j.214B [2999, 25 Meter]

 

Is there a way to make this combo more consistent? If Margaret isn't high enough (with respect to the opponent), the j214AB misses (going underneath them). Really frustrating. I let Margaret jump as high as she can in the jump cancel but it still isn't enough sometimes.

 

 

2B(4), j.2C, jc, j.B, j.C, j.D, j.236CD, j.22D/2D, j.22C, 214C, 2B(4), j.2C, [4213, 50 Meter]

 

Are there videos of these combos that use j236CD? I can't picture what this combo would look like to be honest and when I try this, no j236CD ever comes out after my jD...I don't really understand this combo.

 

Edit: oh I see, was doing the j236CD way too fast after the jD...still can't get the j22D/2D to combo.

 

Edit: also I think you are missing the j214B at the end of that last combo.

[Inahk]

For the first one, yeah, there are lots of different air chains you can do, but it depends on height, which is related to the second one.

 

In theory, assuming you know which side you'll be on, and get a very low hit, you can actually do:

2B(4), j.C, j.2C, jc, j.B, j.C, j.D, j.214B [2246]

 

I'll edit it though to show the various options.

 

For the second, you can remove one of the two normals after the first jump cancel to ensure the j.214AB wont whiff. You have to get them quite low to do both.

 

For the last one, I personally don't use this combo, its very difficult. I have seen Tahichi use it and Lord Knight demonstrated it on one of his streams. Try doing it in the corner if you want to see it work, its a lot easier there. And yes I apparently cut off the ender somehow.

 

Edit: okay, fixed it.

 

2B(4), j.2C, jc, j.B, j.C, j.D, j.236CD, 2D, j.22C, 214C, 2B(4), j.2C, jc, j.C, j.2C, j.214AB [4213, 50 Meter]

 

Much like with the combos that end in a j.214B with Margaret almost touching the ground, the same is done here, she has to be extremely low when you do the j.236CD such that she lands, recovers, and can 2D in time to grab them while falling. Very tough to do consistently in matches with the variable height of anti airs, since they need to stay as low as possible as well.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51KAV8CO7UY&feature=player_detailpage#t=198 here is a video of Tahichi using the same route off a different starter, right at the timestamp. CH j.C, 5C, j.2C, jc, j.B, j.C, j.D, j.236CD, 2D, etc. Its a lot easier to get the height right off this.

[rubedo777]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51KAV8CO7UY&feature=player_detailpage#t=198 here is a video of Tahichi using the same route off a different starter, right at the timestamp. CH j.C, 5C, j.2C, jc, j.B, j.C, j.D, j.236CD, 2D, etc.

 I did it, seems much easier this way because they are not so high up. After 2B though, I still haven't been able to do it.

[crimsonstardust]

So quick question about the combos that use 2D j22C 214C, so I sometimes see people use 5B after 214C instead of 2B, what would be the advantage of using 5B over 2B in this case? Cause it seems like it would be easier to use 2B cause its easier to link but I'm curious to know why you would use 5B instead.  

[Zouf]

5B adds damage (around 200 more than 2B)

[crimsonstardust]

5B adds damage (around 200 more than 2B)

Ah ok, I didn't realize the damage was a little better, I guess that's the trade off for being slightly harder to link.

[Lord Knight]

For Sb Gale wind > 2d - do jb delay jc jd.

5b in the damage route adds damage, unless 5b is the starter.

[mrcool909090]

A... Not that good AoA combo

AoA~C>j.A,j.A,j.A>j.2C>214B=2.2K

[o Nereus o]

j.22C is not hard at all tbh. Just pratice and you'll get it down eventually.

 

If timed well, you can even OTG with 5B instead of 2B after God Hand, increasing damage of the whole combo by 200.

 

More optimized version of 5C CH combo :

 

CH 5C > 2C > 2D > j.22C > 214C > 2B > 5C > j.2C > dj.B dj.C dj.D > j.214B > 214A > 214214A = 6480 damage / 50 meter only

 

It's harder to do than with j.214AB but cost 25 less meter.

 

I'll try to gather down all the combo i can come up with in a video later

How do you do that many dj's after j.2C?

[Fortune]

I guess that was Zouf's shorthand but it just means after the j.2C you double jump /once/ and do that entire j.B j.C delay j.D sequence right there.

[mrcool909090]

I guess that was Zouf's shorthand but it just means after the j.2C you double jump /once/ and do that entire j.B j.C delay j.D sequence right there.

So he should of put in a j.2C>jc>j.B etc.

[Fortune]

While these have been shown on footage many times before, here are some metered confirms involving the j.2B stomp ender which I think should be catalogued:

 

214A > 236236C > 2C > 2D > j.22C > 66 214C > 2B(4) > j.2C > jc j.C > j.2B (214214AB) [4039/5839 50-125 meter]

• A useful tool to punish autopilot Evasive Action during airtight blockstrings as they must stand to execute it. In addition, it is a useful low-profile punish and even antiairs certain moves (ex: Minazuki teleport startup). 
• This can be done from anywhere, including deep in the corner.
• The spacing to hit the 2C link can be strange to aim directly in the corner as it can whiff or the 2D followup will even change direction. I find that slightly walking back a step while the tornado launches them upwards allows success.
• Margaret must be above/close as possible to hit the j.2B ender which can be harder on certain characters midscreen (Sho/Labrys characters). I advise doing j.2C > 9 j.C to travel as far as possible > j.2B
• I find SB Hassou Tobi consistently links after j.2B enders, if A is possible please confirm.

 

 

2A > 5C > 5B > 236236CD > 66 2C > 2D > j.22C > 66 214C > 2B(4) > j.2C > j.2B [3547 75 meter]

• A good confirm that can also eat an opponent's burst on reaction if they choose to burst at the tornado. You can then follow up with 2C 2D into the same combo for 4439 without resources. Alternatively you can do 2C > Hassou Tobi for 4580 if you so choose to end the match that way.
• This confirm by itself is still solid to greatly reduce or eliminate the chance of Awakening at the health threshold.
• Also works anywhere /except/ deep in the corner as the 15 hits of tornado won't happen in time
• If you can confirm j.C as the starter, the damage significantly increases to 5953 by adding SB Hassou Tobi after the ender if you have full resources.

 

2A > 5C > 5B > 236236CD > 66 2C > 2D > j.22C > 214A > 214214A [4629/125 meter]

• Another way to eliminate Awakening and swing the match to our side. Doing 214A earlier gives the ability to safely cancel Hassou Tobi after j.22C but at the cost of letting your opponent burst earlier and slightly less damage (4498)

 

Also while well known at this point, here are a list of common corner combos that lead to the backdash j.22C setup.

Anything with 2A as a starter can be swapped with roughly any other ground normal or jump-in as long as the conditions still apply.

 

2A > 5C > 5B > 214B > 2B(4) > j.C > j.2C > j.214B 

(j.B > j.C >) j.2B > j.214A > 2B(4) > j.C > j.2C > j.214B 
5D > 2B(4) > j.C > j.2C > j.214B 
C+D > 2A > 2B(4) > j.C > j.2C > j.214B (or)

C+D > 2A > 5C > sj.B > j.C > j.2C > j.214B

CH j.2D > 66 j.C > 2A > 5C > 5B > 214B > 2B(4) > j.2C > j.214B

[Crouching] 2A > 5C > 5B > 236D > 66 2B(4) > j.C > j.2C > j.214B

[JYaham95]

Hi, does anyone have any sort of BnBs? The main one I found and use is 2A>5C>5B>5AAAAA>214A. While I find the quite useful for starting matches after the round has started, in mid matches one some distance has been established I find it significantly harder to combo into my opponent without trying to bait a DP or have them make a mistake so I can go for the CH conversion. I'm quite aggressive I'm my matches and my regular opponents know this so they usually block low and wait for me to attack. I tend to do badly against Elizabeths who wait for my approach then 5BBB>214B at me. 

 

I face a few opponents who like to crouch and block against Margaret. I try to go for a 214C, but unfortunately they see it coming. (Not from over use, but from how slow the attack is). Perhaps I'm using a move prior to it that wouldn't normally allow for a 214C follow up? I need some advice on her mix up game I guess to keep my opponent guessing. 

 

Also on Lord Knights video here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0nvtIK815QI seem to consistently fail the combo at 6:03. I'm able to combo up to 214C>2B(1)>5C>J.2C> 5B>J.C>J.D but after J.D I find it next to impossible to land 214B as I either input J.2B accidentally or I input 214B but at this point I'm on the ground, and I gale slash along the floor and miss. Is the timing strict here or am I reading the combo wrong? The notations aren't provided in the video but this is what I saw happen. (I could be wrong). 

 

Thanks a lot for any help provided! :D

[Fortune]

Combo selection has been in the process of editing in the main page for the past couple of days (with EVO of course taking significant attention away). I have not revisited damage numbers yet but made sure to cover most relevant situations.

 

I think basic combos are probably wrapped up, but make sure to keep checking it every once in a while.

 

For that combo you mentioned: LK was doing 2B 5B 5C > superjump cancel j.B but not really relevant to your issue.

 

What you have to do is slightly delay j.D where she's under them and immediately special cancel j.214B. This is done so you can land 214A > Hassou Tobi properly. So should be getting enough height in your second jump cancel to do all three and then finish.

 

 

Regarding neutral/pressure/mix-up advice: that should be left in the general discussion as to not confuse the focus in this thread.

 

I highly recommend visiting LK's Evernote to see his combo/pressure selection as he likely mentioned common errors: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s330/sh/4abb1546-d657-4ef9-89d9-4ba5fbfbec15/937f8e3877d81ea8bcb3c6e31e05fe33

 

(Edit: I gave my opinion, in that thread)

[Lelouch84]

Does anything combo into 2C without CH?

[Jon Miller]

 

What doesnt lol?

Oh nvmd you said w/out CH by bad.

You can use super OMC starters like 236236C > 2C or 236236A/B > OMC >2C

236CD in the corner wall bounces into 2C.

214B (2 hits) > OMC > 2C

Hope that helps.

Also, dunno if it's been posted, but I found a corner Hassou route.

6339 Damage: 236D > 236236C > 2C > 2D > 8 > j22C > 214C > 2B > jC > j2C > j214AB > 214214A

Some notes though, you need to be about max spear distance away or the 2D comes out backwards for some reason.