[CP 2.0] Changes Discussion

[AchedSphinx]

I'm really excited about the changes and highly flexible Nu, but I am concerned (not upset though) that our defense is worse than ever - our only reversal (a metered one) was taken away, unfortunately. 2A poke is gonna be the main way to get out of pressure. 

 

I will miss 4B as well. Crescent is a much better overhead anyway, so it's not a big deal.

 

 

It looks like crescent really is the better overhead, but man, 4B combo routes are easy mode.

I also find it hilarious that Nu can catch you blocking midair with a sword and pressure you all the way down to the ground, continue pressuring, and reset with gravity for free.

 

Technically, you could say 4D is 4B's replacement. Their start-up is similar (4B 23F vs 4D 25F) but with 4D you can cancel it into 5D or 236D or 214A or 214D if you so desire. So 4D is the better overhead, but it also has a deadzone, which makes it largely ineffective close up. Crescent Saber is usually pretty negative on block. I'm not sure how the delayed Crescent will change that. All the videos I've seen of Nu doing delay Crescent seemed as though Nu was really plus on block. Crescent doesn't have the shear amount of cancels that 4D has though.

[Errol]

delay crescent is mega plus on block. the hitbox is massive too, so i think you can use it as another form of oki.  Seems to be a good combo part too, saw a nu player practicing spike chaser > IAD J2C> delay crescent, I think it was.

 

if anything nu's defense is too strong in this game. With bursts and CAs, if you knock someone away and make them block again, you can delay for so long because they have to block for 40 seconds. you get back your meter and/or burst while they block for a decade. just press buttons. odds are good you can take the round right there if they didn't bait your burst or CA.  4D really can't be seen anymore. 

[tuka]

Can't bee seen is a massive overstatement, 25 frames is way beyond average reaction time.

CSE 4B(1) was 18 frames and broken, you can't even compare them in terms of reactability. Not to mention silly things like Rachel's and Valkenhayn's instant overheads.

 

Current 4D is good not because of it's startup buff (although it did help) but because you can throw so many of them at a somewhat unpredictable pattern, combined with the threat of a low to keep them honest.

It remind me of CT Nu which had 5DD > 4DD > TK Crescent / 236D

[Errol]

can we not get into some dumb argument about how people can reliably block 19 frame overheads on an overhead block simulator? The point is that people cannot reliably block 4D when you use it, and that is true. if you crouch and try to stand on reaction to 4d, you will get hit.  maybe not the first time, but you will get hit. not gonna block it 100%. 

[tuka]

Wasn't trying to start any argument, what I said is based solely on experience, no simulators (that suffer from keyboard input-lag anyway).

No one can reliably block every single overhead in a real match, no matter how slow or fast it is. Too many situational variables. That said, 25 is still relatively slow, which is why "can't be seen" is an overstatement.

Ragna's 6B is a slow overhead but he can use it from almost any blockstring and people get hit all day, the surprise factor plays a much bigger role than startup frames.

[AchedSphinx]

delay crescent is mega plus on block. the hitbox is massive too, so i think you can use it as another form of oki.  Seems to be a good combo part too, saw a nu player practicing spike chaser > IAD J2C> delay crescent, I think it was.

 

if anything nu's defense is too strong in this game. With bursts and CAs, if you knock someone away and make them block again, you can delay for so long because they have to block for 40 seconds. you get back your meter and/or burst while they block for a decade. just press buttons. odds are good you can take the round right there if they didn't bait your burst or CA.  4D really can't be seen anymore. 

I saw this happen a lot. Nu would do a combo and end it with 3C > 214A. Then a few frames later she would do delay Crescent on their wake-up and if they don't block it, she gets a super good combo. Btw, is crescent saber now harder to read? I was watching a vid of Yoshiki fight this Ragna FT5 and he got hit by it consistently. I imagine it's because delay Crescent looks similar to Crescent cancel and they think Nu is going for a low. Scary stuff.

[Errol]

 

 

Wasn't trying to start any argument, what I said is based solely on experience, no simulators (that suffer from keyboard input-lag anyway).

No one can reliably block every single overhead in a real match, no matter how slow or fast it is. Too many situational variables. That said, 25 is still relatively slow, which is why "can't be seen" is an overstatement.

Ragna's 6B is a slow overhead but he can use it from almost any blockstring and people get hit all day, the surprise factor plays a much bigger role than startup frames.

30 frames was SEEABLE. you could still get hit by it, but blocking on reaction was very much a thing. 30>25 is a BIG difference, so that you can't reliably see it and block it, it's like other overheads. If you always use it at the same spot and people are looking for nothing but it, they can probably block it a good amount of the time in an offline only environment.  But if you use it after 5d instead of after 5dd sometimes, or after gravity, people will get hit. 30 frames was slow enough that that wasn't the case. 25 frames is fast enough that you can't reliably see it. Do you see what I am saying?

 

I saw this happen a lot. Nu would do a combo and end it with 3C > 214A. Then a few frames later she would do delay Crescent on their wake-up and if they don't block it, she gets a super good combo. Btw, is crescent saber now harder to read? I was watching a vid of Yoshiki fight this Ragna FT5 and he got hit by it consistently. I imagine it's because delay Crescent looks similar to Crescent cancel and they think Nu is going for a low. Scary stuff.

 

I'm not really sure tbh. ATM it could be old reactions messing with people? Since I don't know if there is actually mixup there anymore. In the current version, a delay crescent looks like what in the old version would be crescent cancel > low. But now you can really just block high.  When I've been hit by it, that has been the case.. Playing Rachel vs Nu is a 100% waste of money now though so I haven't played enough to fix reactions to the new version for this particular thing. (it doesn't come up that much.. 4D is pressed literally hundreds of times in a match... so it is quicker to get used to that new pattern but shit is too tight and hard to react to that there's little that can be done)

 

though still, it's a super strong starter, a full, gapless pressure reset on block. And if they get caught pressing buttons, also a big starter.. it's strong anyway. 

[susano]

That's what I initially thought when I saw those matches too. The Ragna kept thinking Nu was going for a low and then he got bopped.

[BloodWolF]

Thanks for the info, Errol. It's good to have a first hand reference on these things...though the more I hear, the more it depresses me. lol.

[kenja0]

Crescent is a longer range overhead that is hard to read and attack on startup. People can't mash 5A to stop it and 5B/C may have too much startup when the opponent needs to react to seeing it.

The Cancel is scary because Nu doesn't commit to something, and if the opponent commits to a DP and whiffs/gets blocked, they are eating 4k. This drives the point that people don't want to attempt to attack something they know they can't beat.

The delay Crescent makes the opponent scared to react because they thought they could block high, expect to block low, and go back to blocking high. They aren't even thinking of punishing it because once again, Nu is out of range and makes the opponent react too slowly.

The safest thing people can do is jump block, but because of the mind game of delay Crescent, and the speed of Crescent cancel into immediate lows, people won't instinctually do it.

Crescent is a -11 move that is unpunishable on recovery and 80% of the cast can't attack her on startup of her next option. Delay Crescent being +11 (by the looks of it) is an absolute nightmare for people. It completely makes up for 4B being gone.

[zaeris]

I'm probably thinking if crescent has any blind spot, so a prefect read could just be a simple forward dash. As for 4b I kinda liked it as combo option rather than its overhead property.

[Bruno__VAYSSE]

Possible to post the complete movelist for Nu13 2.0 please ?

[StylisH]

I seriously hate getting interested in a character, and then said character is buffed shortly thereafter to villian-tier.  Subbing Nu would instantly scream ""tier whore" to the masses, even though she was pretty good to begin with. 

 

Dammit Mori.

[pokemonblaze234]

I seriously hate getting interested in a character, and then said character is buffed shortly thereafter to villian-tier.  Subbing Nu would instantly scream ""tier whore" to the masses, even though she was pretty good to begin with. 

 

Dammit Mori.

I'm just going to deal with the top tier BS :/ Like, I miss 22A and all, but I want to receive hate mail and respond to said hate mail like an utter dick. idk If I'll stick with her or not, I might just call BBCPE rubbish a couple week later then come back to it just to play a different character. But sub her if you want, I don't(but I do) see any problems with you subbing her.

[pokemonblaze234]

Are we getting a combo thread anytime soon?