Jump to content
Kurushii

[CP2.0] Kokonoe - Gameplay Discussion (Discuss Videos/Combos/Questions/etc.)

Recommended Posts

BBCP_Header_Gameplay_Discussion.png
 
*Note* - When browsing the Kokonoe forums please follow the rules of the site, failure to do so will result in an Infraction. If you do not know the rules you can check them here -> Site Rules.

 
Gameplay Discussion Only Please!:
  • Remember to keep the discussion strictly gameplay related.
  • Feel free to discuss Match Videos, Combos, Mixups, Strategies, etc.
  • If you have a question or are unsure about something, please look on the wiki first. Her page can be found here.
  • Please take all Story related discussion to the Chrono Phantasma Story Thread.

 
 

:KO:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Her gameplan is gonna change for sure, her graviton can't be spammed too often now. So goodbye free zoning with graviton. Still, we didn't see nerfs in the video so we can't say for sure how's she gonna be. The only guaranteed stuff is that you have to choose  if you want zoning, setups or damage with graviton. In other words, they're limiting her resources like Valk, Rachel, etc. Good enough for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some Kokopuffs' combos:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izX_RMVTC3g

 

Still getting 7K from BH.

 

Not so salty cuz it needs 100HT and OD, but I was hoping that was out, or at least prorated much better.

 

I digress, Koko is lookin' really interesting this time around, looking at this. Might pick her up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Her combos are still damaging, I think her damage is a little bit lower though, but who cares if she still has some setups. Heck, she even has some interesting meterless midscreen combos now, making combos with 3C without bar looks fun xD. I still think that the nerf is in her neutral, not in her combos/damage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Think that's Matoi's Kokonoe. And he has 4 matches in total in that footage. There's a little bit more Kokonoe footage in the videos posted in the general video posting thread. If I get time this weekend, maybe I'll gather them all and dump them in the 1.1 video thread for now. Here's all the stuff from the above video altogether now though

 

Matoi vs Nu
Matoi vs Rachel
Matoi vs Nu
Matoi vs Taokaka

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there a full changelist for 2.0 Kokonoe?

 

I've been waiting on that myself for a while.  Hard to get into Koko without having some idea of how she'll work now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is a video on Shoryuken that displays Kokonoe's changes. I may pick her up myself. Although it's hilarious that one of her distortion drives can do over 13k damage in OD. It probably won't happen because it needs a full charge but it's still funny.

 

http://shoryuken.com/2014/10/08/arc-system-works-shares-additional-changes-in-blazblue-chronophantasmas-upcoming-ver-2-0-update/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Watching some of Matoi's more recent matches.. it seems she either needs a lot of optimization (which may not come until after console), or she just got bodied really hard. Her overall damage output seems to be significantly less. The change to 3C and 6C helps, it allows her to do meterless extensions to her combos, but anytime you go into 3C>5A the rest of the combo is pretty badly prorated. Normally you could make up for this by using gravitons to have better control of the neutral game and to get more damaging combo routes, but the new "stock" system for her gravitons is incredibly slow (it can't recharge "partially", if you consume a stock before it recovers the recharge timer resets). This means gravitons are pretty much always used very conservatively, since it's suicidal to not have gravitons at all when you need to use them defensively.

 

Reading from twitter though, it seems she's retained some of the silly things she had in 1.1 like Golden Tager comeback combos, but this requires 100 meter + overdrive. Since she doesn't gain as much meter in 2.0 either, this will become significantly less common.

 

Blackhole setups are still a thing, but apparently lost all invincibility, so it's only useful against characters whose reversal options cannot hit Kokonoe. In addition, the followup timing is completely different now, so her old 22B>3C route is gone. There may be new ways to set up the timing for the bonus OTG damage, but it's currently unknown.

 

I'm still quite interested in trying her out myself but none of her match video footage is flattering, to be honest, haha :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Blackhole setups are still a thing, but apparently lost all invincibility....

 

Wow, didn't know that. I guess that is to remove random blackholes some people do and tight her setups. The new stock mechanic limit her greatly and her damage is not good. I suppose the difference between been competitive and not, is how well you manage her gravitons, and that seems not easy. Even though I must say that some of Matoi's combos look extremely hype lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yall need to stop spamming graviton>activate in neutral is what the stock system means. If you play assuming your graviton is going to be left out for a long time, the stock system is a buff. You still have nice oki and everything. You still keep the meterless restand in the corner, you have stock recovery combos with the 3C and 6C changes. 

 

You just can't disrespect other characters at every opportunity anymore.

 

Also you still keep left/right + high/low fireball mixup in the corner with sideswaps if you put yourself in the corner. This is reallllllll nice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yall need to stop spamming graviton>activate in neutral is what the stock system means. If you play assuming your graviton is going to be left out for a long time, the stock system is a buff. You still have nice oki and everything. You still keep the meterless restand in the corner, you have stock recovery combos with the 3C and 6C changes. 

 

The new system is pretty atrocious overall, IMO. Having 9 normal summons or 4 Summon->Activate and 1 Summon queued up doesn't make up for all the underlying nerfs. Yes, the stock system means you can spam graviton back to back 9 times if needed, in a way that's a buff (since in theory you could get back gravitons with some of those 9 stocks). There's a bunch of issues though, like the total duration for graviton during the pulling phase has been reduced. I'd like to say it went from 300f->240f but I can't say for sure. The biggest nerf is that the recovery period "resets" if you don't let the stock count go up. This means if you didn't wait the cooldown period + 5 seconds (not sure on the numbers) and summon a graviton, you have to wait for another entire cooldown period + 5 seconds *again*. If anything it should be something like:

 

- Do summon -> recall, Kokonoe waits (recall cooldown + 3 seconds) before doing summon -> activate

- Kokonoe waits (activate cooldown + 2 seconds), stock count goes up 

 

Despite the "stock system" looking more simple at a glance the way is implemented makes meter management needlessly complicated now because one crucial aspect to her meter management is effectively hidden (the time left to recover a stock). You can't even tell if your graviton meter is in or out of the cooldown period now.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm still excited to try her, but I'm going to have to call it like it is.. the new system is pretty booty. I do think stuff like delayed activation is under-explored outside of combos and even during combos, so it's not like there isn't stuff to look forward to, there's just a good chance she'll be heavily outclassed this time around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sooooo kokonoe still gets a 9K golden tager combo off of overhead, grab, ect...

 

lots of graviton-free combo routes. Midscreen anything goes into 236B including a stray 5A.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sooooo kokonoe still gets a 9K golden tager combo off of overhead, grab, ect...

 

Yes, I mentioned the Golden Tager bit in an earlier post. I think it's useful in those "one chance" scenarios where you can slip out of a shitty situation without relying on meter/burst and you get the hit, or even guard cancel OD. There's also her new 6C/3C; something like 3C>ODc>6A>6C>5B>5C>3C>9D>236B>22B>G.Tager might be possible, who knows.. BUT, the problem is gunning for this approach requires holding back your meter AND burst usage which she can't normally afford (hell, even with as strong as she was in 1.1 I didn't get chances very often to rob people with Golden Tager). It's worth mentioning, but it's not that big of a game-changer that she simply kept this from 1.1. 

 

Midscreen anything goes into 236B including a stray 5A.

 

This is not entirely true, the issue with these is that 3C>5A has a lot of variance in terms of reliability. Mikami (@mikamijuku on twitter) documented it here: http://www.famitsu.com/cominy/?m=pc&a=page_fh_diary&target_c_diary_id=87619

 

The first part is basically a "tier list" on 3C>5A, with the top tier being the characters where doing 3C>5A works at "near max range" (Taokaka, Tager, Relius), and bottom tier not working at all (Ragna, Makoto). This means you can't just convert any ground hit into 3C>5A since it's character and spacing dependent.

 

Crouch confirms are unaffected since she can go into 2C and even 2C>6C>5B, so there's that.

 

To balance out all my gloom and doom, there's this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwXVJTd0CCg

 

Some noteworthy things include double bunker combos that she can do mid-screen *or* in the corner after using gravitons, which buys enough time to recover 1 back (so summon->activate has a net cost of 1 as long as you avoid summoning a graviton for oki).

 

Also, her midscreen G.Tager combo looks significantly easier.

Edited by BananaKun

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well on most,

 

you can do stray 3C>5A>6A>6C>j.D>j.B>j.236[D]>6A>]D[>22B>5B>214C>236A>236B

 

i saw a neat video sometime ago with a cool OD combo:

6B>5C>ODC>5B>5C>3C>9D>236B>22B>6C>236[D]>6A>2363214C>]D[>(laser hits)

so i wonder if there is a setup we can use to actually get the max charge.

 

we may be able to do in corner:

 

(crouch)j.B>5B>2C>6C>j.C>j.7D>j.C>j.236[D]>j.C>j.214A~]D[>6[A]>22B>5B>5C>236B

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at more matches, red fireball is 5 hits? or maybe i'm counting wrong.

 

Blue fireball is 4  hits and seems to track where the opponent was when you first fired it. Replaces C fireball?

 

You gain 1 graviton stock every 8 seconds.

 

Yea thats a bit slow. 6 seconds would've been fine. 8 is a bit too much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×