someonewhodied Report post Posted May 9, 2015 use 22A till they stop rolling. Then go back to 22B Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narga21 Report post Posted May 9, 2015 I decided to pick up koko this version but i don't know what im doing. I tried watching match videos, but since i don't know the thought process behind their actions, i don't really know how to assimilate their techniques into my game. I'm decent at combos but i am clueless when it comes to neutral and effectively using my gravitons and fireballs. If someone could point me to a guide or a something of the sort, i'd be grateful Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TD Report post Posted May 9, 2015 She's a mix of zoning, pressure, and footsies (using normals strategically). Footsies can be done liberally. On the ground your best attack is 3c since it's easy combo and oki, decent range and speed and only -1 iirc. You can even risk attacking again if they block it, because there are some frame traps with it between 236a and 22a, though the former is unsafe. 2b low profiles some things and has a deceptively good range, can be risked in certain midrange situations. 6a, 6c, and 22a are the anti airs. 6a is fast and invul kicks in quite quickly, but is mostly vertical, use on foes who are close to you vertically. 6c is the anticipatory aa, use on characters who predictably IAD, or in a pressure string that gives the foe a chance to jump. Leads to massive damage on hit or ch and not too unsafe on block, follow with graviton or j2c depending on the situation. 22a is not too fast not too slow, decent horizontal range and infinite vertical. Have not tested this too much against high airborne ch, but it's completely safe on block. Leads into a short combo in hit. Airborne you really have jb only. Good for air to air, air to ground and general spacing, a really decent move though not the best. J2c alters your vertical momentum slightly and has a deep descending hitbox, so can use very situational mixups with jb, though reward is not great without a gadget out. Ja is decent though it lost a ton of utility. Ok hitbox in front and really fast. Can be held a little. It's sort of a fail safe attack that can out prioritize other close range air attacks with its speed and active frames. Combo after is quite the crapper though. Otherwise she is quite fast, forward dash still quite fast and quick backdash can be mashed to get away versus horizontally challenged opponents. Gadgets. Minus graviton, both fireball and 22b take a bit of setting up. You need graviton as well to maximize their effectiveness. Fireball goes away on hit or block but is one of your only zoning projectiles. 4 hits lock the foe down. Use with 6d as a basic maneuver. Or set it out and anticipate where the foe will go and just xd there for denial. You're going to really want to experiment with this because it's one of the most important tools she has offensively. If you suspect they will block it shortly with graviton near and you're too far to run in, feel free to teleport on in, just make sure they're about to block it and not already blocking it you will lose your advantage. 22b, the set it and forget it trap, it's less "forget it" now because it only lasts 5 seconds compared to the 9 before. This move is still one of her best utility options, because it forces your foe to react to it or have to deal with graviball. Does not go away on block and can't be destroyed. Infinite vertical range as well, but takes a little bit of startup to activate even on auto detonate; it will flash white. Play around this move defensively unless you know the foe will be turtling, then get a graviton on, behind, or near them with 6d. With it behind them you can possibly push them into the trap! And with how fast activate is, you create an instant left/right mixup or even high/low with this method. Leads to a short combo in hit. In the corner, this oppressive oki tool prevents rolls and will bait every dp in the game with slight advantage. Use against everyone not named azreal. Graviton is the bread and butter of the character, graviton is extremely similar to Rachel wind as without it your playing about 50 percent of the actual character. Setting one out slowly pulls the foe toward it horizontally. (Not sure if it ever pulls vertically unless foe is in hitstun?). Goes a long way in actually giving her the space she needs to do... Whatever she needs to do, from zoning to rush down. 6d is one of her most common graviton. Because it pulls the foe to the other side of the screen over the course of a few seconds, your foe will be hard pressed to hit you, and whenever you're ready to push them back to you, you can. 6d has excellent synergy with both gadgets and if ever you can get all 3 out you have so many options of pain. Again, need to experiment with this. Also, try to use each graviton full, don't keep setting one out every 3 seconds. If you see graviball setup isn't working and you're like below 5 graviton, switch it up, start doing footsies for awhile. Activating it pushes the foe opposite the graviton, so you can manipulate their positioning and really fuck them over. It's expensive at the cost of an extra stock but using it properly is extremely worth it. Causes a onscreen fireball to go haywire, changing it to an extremely fast projectile akin to a bow shooting an arrow. Completely random but certain setups make use of this, like 214a 7d 236d rocketing toward a full screen grounded foe but it's not really worth anymore. On hit this actually juggles them, but again not really worth unless it's a specific setup. Last bit is pressure. You mostly have frame traps, frame advantage attacks, and very basic mixup without a thing out. Go for quick strings into 22a, 2c. These leave her at plus frame and can usually continue attacking with 5b or dash 5a. Pressure is usually 5a/2a x n into 5b and then go from there, 5b is special and jump cancel so you can jump in with jb from there. Mix it up, try to get them blocking for awhile if you can by alternating between frame traps and resets. 5c has a large delay window but pushes them back quite far. Expect to either 2c/3c after or set a trap with the distance gained. Setting 5d in pressure is quick, but not quick enough to not get punished. Use once the foe is scared to jump or attack. Once 5d is in the middle, 5b and 5a leads to 50/50 situations with j2b delay j236d, and 2b. Same with the gadgets. Beware, graviton can screw you over too. A graviton pulling the foe towards you will make your 3c whiff, but will put them in prime position for a 22a/2c pressure reset. Also negate 5c push block. Graviton pulling the foe away reverses these two strategies while making a mid pressure gadget set much more safe and feasable. Basically she wants to control the neutral by any means necessary. Games slow down to her pace once she gets started and often the foe has to play around her not the other way around. A simple 6d is all it takes to get started in some matchups. Ultimately she wants a corner knockdown as her oki setups are completely free if not using graviton. She doesn't like being on defense, but use graviton effectively, and you probably will never have to defend at least until you run out of mess up somewhere. I'm not great with her yet but I adopt all of these strategies in my play. I may need a minor correction here or there though, so someone can correct me if they see something inky. Also feel free to ask questions and I will try to answer to the best of my ability. Did not spell check! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narga21 Report post Posted May 11, 2015 wow thanks. i have alot to practice on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reako Report post Posted May 11, 2015 Thank you everyone for the information given so far, and those who replied to my questions. Here's a corner throw combo that, so far as I have tested, is universal. 3.9k and 28 meter for 2 gravitons. CD> 9D> 2C> 236D> 22B> 5C> (R )> 214A> 5C> 236A> (F)> 236B> 5C> (B) You cannot add a 5B/6A. Everything has to be done quickly after the 214A, unless it's Noel, then you have to slightly delay things here and there, or the fireball won't hit. The fireball hiting late makes up for the delayed time, still allowing you to do the combo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mirasantika Report post Posted May 11, 2015 Thank you everyone for the information given so far, and those who replied to my questions. Here's a corner throw combo that, so far as I have tested, is universal. 3.9k and 28 meter for 2 gravitons. CD> 9D> 2C> 236D> 22B> 5C> (R )> 214A> 5C> 236A> (F)> 236B> 5C> (B) You cannot add a 5B/6A. Everything has to be done quickly after the 214A, unless it's Noel, then you have to slightly delay things here and there, or the fireball won't hit. The fireball hiting late makes up for the delayed time, still allowing you to do the combo. It got decent damage, but I think you will lose 22b oki ender and also lose the chance to end with super since after bunker b hit the opponent can immediate tech My corner throw: throw 9d 2c (slight delay to make opponent float higher) 236d 22b 5b 5c 236b ender Ender could be: 5c 22b 214a oki 5b 5c 22b oki 5c 236c (50 meter for extra 1000 damage) 5b 5c 214214a 4d 236d 236c (100 meter for extra 1500 damage) Btw can we do golden tager combo from throw? Even though Im having trouble by the new golden tager input, but just curious lol And I still dont know how to play the matchup againts nu properly, throwing graviton to scare them with teleport is a good idea, but its risky since we can be shotted from far while doing it And the 5dd 4dd blockstring is just ughh, they throw gravity with that blockstring, and koko can only sit there cant do anything (well its the case for most character though lol) Anyone have a guard cancel OD combo for nu 5dd distance? For now I just pick izayoi if I met a nu player, my koko is hopeless lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reako Report post Posted May 11, 2015 It got decent damage, but I think you will lose 22b oki ender and also lose the chance to end with super since after bunker b hit the opponent can immediate tech My corner throw: throw 9d 2c (slight delay to make opponent float higher) 236d 22b 5b 5c 236b ender Ender could be: 5c 22b 214a oki 5b 5c 22b oki 5c 236c (50 meter for extra 1000 damage) 5b 5c 214214a 4d 236d 236c (100 meter for extra 1500 damage) Btw can we do golden tager combo from throw? Even though Im having trouble by the new golden tager input, but just curious lol And I still dont know how to play the matchup againts nu properly, throwing graviton to scare them with teleport is a good idea, but its risky since we can be shotted from far while doing it And the 5dd 4dd blockstring is just ughh, they throw gravity with that blockstring, and koko can only sit there cant do anything (well its the case for most character though lol) Anyone have a guard cancel OD combo for nu 5dd distance? For now I just pick izayoi if I met a nu player, my koko is hopeless lol Use 5C, not 5B at the end. It works. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mirasantika Report post Posted May 12, 2015 Your combo does work, but when I try it I cant end it with the ice gun after the 5c since after the bunker rocket hit the opponent can immediately tech, I also think they can hit you first if you try to set up 22b after the combo (unless Im doing something wrong on the combo) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reako Report post Posted May 12, 2015 Your combo does work, but when I try it I cant end it with the ice gun after the 5c since after the bunker rocket hit the opponent can immediately tech, I also think they can hit you first if you try to set up 22b after the combo (unless Im doing something wrong on the combo) I do not have this issue at all. It is a completely legit combo for me. Check to make sure you're doing it well, and try to do things faster. BB is a game in which combos work on a timer. If you delay a lot, it won't work. To make sure you are doing the proper combo, it should do 3946 damage, and with 236C it does 5218 at 71 hits. Also, it doesn't work on Tsubaki or Tager. Probably a few more out there. Kokonoe's high end combos are always character specifc. At least if they require Flame Cage. A different combo that works on everyone for 3641 damage is CD> 9D> 2C> 236D> 22B> 5B> 5C> (R )> 236B> 6A> (B)> 5C *Edit: I have made a Kokonoe Skype group chat. In case anyone is interested in joining, send me a message with your Skype contact info, and I'll add you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kiba Report post Posted May 13, 2015 Game Chariot Ragna vs Kokonoe - Sorry I dunno the names. Need a CPE Video thread tbh, but I'm hesistant on making one because I already manage 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mirasantika Report post Posted May 14, 2015 I do not have this issue at all. It is a completely legit combo for me. Check to make sure you're doing it well, and try to do things faster. BB is a game in which combos work on a timer. If you delay a lot, it won't work. To make sure you are doing the proper combo, it should do 3946 damage, and with 236C it does 5218 at 71 hits. Also, it doesn't work on Tsubaki or Tager. Probably a few more out there. Kokonoe's high end combos are always character specifc. At least if they require Flame Cage. A different combo that works on everyone for 3641 damage is CD> 9D> 2C> 236D> 22B> 5B> 5C> (R )> 236B> 6A> (B)> 5C *Edit: I have made a Kokonoe Skype group chat. In case anyone is interested in joining, send me a message with your Skype contact info, and I'll add you. Been playing xrd lately, but I gotta try doing it faster then, I tried the combo on ragna couple of times and ice gun always whiff Edit: I give up, I tried on ragna and jin for 30 min, and the ice gun always whiff, maybe this combo is just not for me lol Maybe my problem is that I need to delay the 236c hit, if its not delayed the 22b wont hit after 5c 214a (height problem) Game ChariotRagna vs Kokonoe - Sorry I dunno the names. Need a CPE Video thread tbh, but I'm hesistant on making one because I already manage 2 The kokonoe is kagetsu Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TD Report post Posted May 15, 2015 Yes, should have added [] to 236[D], activate has to be delayed for this to work. Kagetsu had been doing 3d 22b for corner oki, anyone been experimenting with this? Why 3d and not 5d, does it aid in preventing rolls? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
someonewhodied Report post Posted May 15, 2015 Yes, should have added [] to 236[D], activate has to be delayed for this to work. Kagetsu had been doing 3d 22b for corner oki, anyone been experimenting with this? Why 3d and not 5d, does it aid in preventing rolls? 236B>5C3D>22B can be rolled, Its not good oki. (Beats everything else though) 5C>22B>3D however does stop things and lets you block reversals. Doesn't force blockstun on latetech. Basically pick which option you wanna beat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kiba Report post Posted May 15, 2015 236B > 5C > 3D > 22B > 2A > (5B) will catch rolls. You need to press 2A immediately after 22B. There is less time for the opponent to delay tech here as they could get reset with 2A. It forces neutral tech. 236B > 5C > 5D > 22B allows a little more time for the opponent to delay tech so pressing 2A immediately will cause a blue beat. You've gotta wait just like a second or so to force neutral tech. You can remedy this by doing 236B > 22B > 5D > 2A to catch rolls, but you basically have no time to use some immediate mixup on neutral tech as the pole will hit meaty. The kokonoe is kagetsu Knew I recognised it. Thanks, there are more videos of his play on that channel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dreizehn Report post Posted May 21, 2015 Hi all, nice to meet you! I was wondering if I could ask for a bit of help. I recently got BBCPEX, and wanted to pick up Koko as my main in this version; the problem is, I've never really used her before, at all. What would you recommend me to look at or do to learn her, how to manage gravitons, which attacks to use when, her gameplan, or what I should be trying to do in matches...I've been trying the challenges, but combos only go so far, and I'm still really confused as to what I'm supposed to be doing in an actual match other than whacking people over the head with cat wrenches. Thank you! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TD Report post Posted May 21, 2015 I wrote some stuff that might be relevant to your interests on the page before this one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dreizehn Report post Posted May 22, 2015 Thanks TD! I read through it, it was exactly what I was looking for. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capconian Report post Posted June 4, 2015 I've always wanted to play Koko back in 1.0 and 1.1 but her combos were too long too specific and situational for my tastes, has this changed in 2.0? are they shorter and more universal? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
someonewhodied Report post Posted June 5, 2015 youtube hates me so this went in nicovideo instead http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm26417648 some explanations of stuff in there: 00:37 for dashunder fireball in the corner, if you microdash out, they have to block as if they are in the corner, if you step away from the corner a bit, they have to block as if they are out of the corner. Can just nontech it but if they like to tech in the air immediately this is a nice gimmick against that. 00:59 Throw 3C loops: Burst safe 3K without OD 1:08 Superball 50/50: dashunder graviton makes it so teleport wont cross up but microdash teleport will. 1:21 Meterless Ice Gun restand: Hasn't changed from vanilla CP, Graviton nerf actually makes this stronger now that they don't slide after graviton disappears. 1:42 Anti-Celica/Terumi Dash Super: 236B>5C>22B>4D>2A If they super, superflash lets you kara 2A into 22C. If they don't super by the end of 2A's kara window, they are in blockstun anyways. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dreizehn Report post Posted June 13, 2015 Hi, I was wondering if I could maybs bother people around here with one more question...I've been looking over basic combos I can learn with Kokonoe (still very much a newbie with her!), and found this video: https://youtu.be/JCeGv31ZLsI?t=2m12s From what I gather, the entire first part is some kind of explanation on different mechanics and combo links/routes used with her. However, I can't figure out what the video is talking about at the linked time with Nu/Lambda/Hazama/Terumi/Kagura, and Noel. Does anyone know what it means, or know if there's something specific when playing against those characters that doesn't work, similar to the 3C>5A routes not working on Ragna/Makoto? Thanks! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reako Report post Posted June 13, 2015 Hi, I was wondering if I could maybs bother people around here with one more question...I've been looking over basic combos I can learn with Kokonoe (still very much a newbie with her!), and found this video: https://youtu.be/JCeGv31ZLsI?t=2m12s From what I gather, the entire first part is some kind of explanation on different mechanics and combo links/routes used with her. However, I can't figure out what the video is talking about at the linked time with Nu/Lambda/Hazama/Terumi/Kagura, and Noel. Does anyone know what it means, or know if there's something specific when playing against those characters that doesn't work, similar to the 3C>5A routes not working on Ragna/Makoto? Thanks! This is for the corner carry combos. Example: 5B> 5C> 3C> 5A> 5B> 6A> 22A> 6[A]> 3D> 5B> 236A> 5C> 236B The 5C into B Broken Bunker (236B) is tricky on these characters. I'm not sure about in general, for example midscreen. (I think there too, you have to delay it on them IIRC.) But specifically in the corner. You have to delay the 5C and B Broken Bunker quite a bit here and there for it to work, or the B Broken Bunker will just completely wiff out under them, letting them tech in the air. That's what he's talking about. I hope this helped. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dreizehn Report post Posted June 13, 2015 I see, that explains a lot, thank you! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bushido Report post Posted July 5, 2015 I have a generic question since I'm quite very new to Kokonoe. What are the core basics that I should learn about this character. As well, what should I be trying to get in the neutral game? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TD Report post Posted July 10, 2015 Look on the page before this one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bushido Report post Posted July 10, 2015 Wow, don't know why I didn't read it. Thank you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites