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MikelAL93

[P4AU] Margaret Player Critique and Self Improvement thread

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Need tips and advice on how to improve your playstyle and gameplan with Margaret? Post videos of yourself playing so we can help you right away!

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I guess I can give some feedback. I'm not that great, but I like this character though.

 

I noticed that you overuse 236D in situations where it doesn't normally hit, you generally use it on a crouch confirm or certain counterhits when you want a fullscreen combo with 5C j.2C j.2C j.214B.

 

I also noticed that you sorta know the counterhit combos and so you're fishing for things like 5C/2C a lot. Don't autopilot it because those normals are dangerous to whiff and will not link together on a normal hit. This puts yourself in situations as a free target. Instead, what you have to do is use them for punishing things with slow recovery or beating out mashing at a safe range.

 

You need to learn to convert more random hits into knockdowns with 214A / j.214B and then capitalize on it to keep control of the match. One of the most common things is doing a safejump with j.C after 214A and continuing pressure.

 

Simple things like converting 5A into 5B 5C 214A, 5B 5A 5B 5C 214A, 2A 5C 5B 214A into knockdown will do more than you would think. In addition, you can supercancel 214A into tornado super. If they get hit, you can combo. If they block, you get a safe pressure string.

 

You also need to practice doing some pressure strings with her gatlings to get in and maintain control safely. Doing things like 2C or God's Hand at the wrong spacing / without cover will allow them to get away or even punish you for it. Strings involving 2C often involve sweep > 236D because if they try to break or not watching for sweep, they can get hit low and then 236D can then combo after it.

 

I would disabuse the habit of using All Out Attack (you didn't really do it too much, but just for awareness), it's a 40+ frame move (very slow) and the crossup gimmick doesn't even work if they're completely in the corner. 

 

Match 1: I noticed that you were doing 5A fullscreen repeatedly, not sure what that was about. The Minazuki had a lot of meter and could have just killed you with the wave super for free had he realized it because you can't commit to any projectiles when Minazuki has meter, you have to bait it out of them.

 

Margaret mirror stuff: You obviously cannot afford to let yourself lose cards excessively. You also were getting counterhit repeatedly with 5C when you didn't need to be, Margaret shouldn't really be mashing because her defense is poor and most of her normals are slow (usually the normal of choice to mash out of strings is the first hit of 2B for a counterhit).

You have to know the holes in the strings with correct defense before doing so. If the opposing Margaret is controlling neutral/pressure, you need to be patient and weather the storm until you can retaliate or get away. That other guy was just jumping back doing j.D over and over at one point. I feel like just simply stepping back and throwing one spear would have hit her out of it at that height because she has no air actions while doing fireballs.

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thank you for that i've been trying to improve lately and recently got my equipment to record and post for advice so i can provide more quality play of margaret since i dont see many NA players doing so. cause tehichi is great and everything but we wont see everything he does and im sure for some of the newer players it would seem abit more friendly to have a NA player out there for videos to refer to.

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I'm not the best on critiques, but I felt you could have done more damage against that Yukari. Also, gotta work on that neutral. Taking unnecessary risks with Margaret can get you persona broken and blown up at times.

She does take a lot of effort to work on so keep practicing.

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I watched part 1 and here's what I noticed.

~ you're being really respectful in neutral. I don't know if it's just that you feel yukari wins neutral or if you just don't feel confident in neutral yet, but you're letting her run all over you more than necessary. 

5A is a really strong tool against Yukari because breaks her persona safely, destroys arrows in most situations, destroys garu, and is just really big. When you're around 5A's max range, it's good to just throw it out sometimes as a poke or to break her persona.

~you autopilot your buttons in neutral into 2C most of the time, presumably fishing for counterhits. If you think you'll CH the opponent for some reason, that's good, but it's better in general to do something that lets you confirm into pressure. instead of 5B > 2C, try 5B > delay 5A. This way if they get hit you can confirm 5A > 5C, or on block you can confirm 5A > 5B or 5A > 2A gatling and actually get some pressure. Similarly, you can use 5A > 5B and confirm into 5C on hit,

~try to avoid using 2C so much in pressure. It always leaves a gap and is punishable by rolling and some mashing. resist the urge to autopilot into 2C hoping that you got the CH.

~don't use AOA ever. It's just too big of a risk and it too easy to react to. It's 40+ frames startup.

~you were using some weird buttons in panic situations, like 5A up close. remember that 2B is her fastest normal, and her best mashing normal. 2B > 2C leads to massive damage on CH, or you can 2B > 5B to confirm into pressure or a combo without needing to guess.

sorry I can't say more. I'm limited on time at the moment.

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Hi, I need some help on improving my general play style and want to hear other Margaret players opinions on how I play, so here is some gameplay from a few matches online. My video editing software is going haywire so I couldn't edit the scenes out between the matches and I accidentally recorded a bit of the same Narukami match in the latter part of the video before changing the match to a new one so please bear with me. Any advice, help or tips are greatly appreciated! :)

 

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1st Match: You started good aggression with 2A 5C 5B 5Ax5 - a novel blockstring that's also a hitconfirm. It's hard to say if you were going straight for the hitconfirm but you chose to end with AOA without any meter to cover it. Rise did the natural solution to AOA - upback. Thankfully, she didn't get too much of a punish. And you were also fortunate to get Ultra Suplex from a whiff. (I'm actually shocked that punish dropped but it's netplay).

You then did a random 2C, assuming that the Ultra Suplex > j.2C > TK j.214B came too late?

Rise dropped the punish and then you got a 2B antiair j.2C but you didn't follow up (usually jump cancel j.B or desperation c

You got back in with 2A but did 2C afterwards. Luckily Rise blocked because that's not a true string or non CH combo. Looks like the Rise's answer is upback (Margaret has plenty of ways to deal with that)

Stray CH j.C > j.214B that's cool. Even though she can get more damage off that, it's important to get knockdowns however you can. You did what looked a no-tech punish with 2C. Good! But what you did afterwards was 5C > 2D, that doesn't usually combo without fatal and should only grab her if she teched forward.

Rise comfortably downbacks for a good second and starts walking back (probably looking for spear or a displaced attack?). In any case you run back in and do AOA which luckily hit but you didn't do many hits and the followup j.Cs were very slow in rhythm so it dropped (netplay delay?). That was too daring, AOA was very risky.

You respect the blockstring Rise does, but the notes weren't activated on you so you downbacked while Rise did j.B. There wasn't really reason to just downback that. There was no ambiguity there, she just plainly jumped. So the combo clearly dropped again so she stands there tapping 5A all day and you get a CH. Unfortunately the combo dropped at j.22C and you didn't recognize it so Rise DP'ed. The combo looks correct but netplay likely dropped the timing. Recognize when your combos drop if that situation happens. Doing God's Hand after the fact often leaves you open if they were mashing during the combo or otherwise realized it before you did. Returning to neutral is much better especially since j.22C was blocked which is +30 and a free jump.

So Rise capitalizes on DP knockdown and runs at you. (Very shocked that Rise Satellites didn't happen). It appeared that Rise was trying to crossup inputs for Power Slash but didn't completely jump over yet. Power Slash worked out but I don't think you had any reason to seeing as Rise could have probably blocked and you had no meter otherwise. You wisely jump the salty salt reversal.

Round 2. Rise starts by downbacking 5A. That could have been dangerous on whiff but she decides to respect it and the following 5B. You chose to walkback and do nothing afterwards. Turned out to be a very good decision! People love to roll/DP when there's a gap in her blockstrings. You punished with 2A and unfortunately messed up your buttons but the take home note here is that sometimes doing NOTHING in your strings is very strong. Look at footage later and you'll see players leave slight gaps like that to test their reaction and if nothing happens they continue pressure. 5C would have likely forced a burst (that's a free 4.5-6K lol).

Slight air exchanges, she airthrows you and did AOA as oki. Thankfully you rolled that. Rise then does AOA again (wow!) but your 5B beat its startup re-armor frames. You just did autocombo later. You could have did a harder punish with 5B 2C afterwards if you reacted in time. Otherwise, ending with 214A is always the safest result. 

You wisely stay on the ground while Rise tries airdash airthrow. After a scramble you try 5B 5C God Hand. Personally I don't use God's Hand until I discourage mashing/rolling and want them to stay downbacking. In my experience, Rise players often DP God Hand. SB God Hand can armor that, but the point here is again recognize how unsafe you leave yourself using God's Hand. You got 2 separate hits from 5B and 5C, it would have been safer to do a combo instead.

So Rise capitalizes on DP again and runs at you and tries a blockstring this time. You IMMEDIATELY Power Slashed after instant blocking 5A and hitting 5AA recovery. I'm not aware if that works or if the Rise wanted 5A stagger pressure since it was non CH. In any case, you bait the resulting salty DP and you punished with 5C (and forced the burst).

Slight scramble but then you decide to gold burst, realistically Rise could have blocked that. The Rise was probably trying to go for pressure, looks like it was delayed. You chose to AOA afterwards. Once again, there was no reason to do that. You have 100 meter and a significant life lead, there's no reason to apporach poorly (or at all).

More scrambles with a lot of j.A. I don't think that can challenge any of Rise's air moves

Later on, you use Panta Rhei for anti-air and it forced a block, but you couldn't do anything off of it since she was airblocking. You then airdash into Rise satellites and then mashed on a satellite. There's no reason to challenge that move head-on. If anything, try to air block (you get air actions back for doing so) and keep positioning yourself to avoid as much bombs as possible. She can't throw you if you're still in blockstun so there's no reason to readily mash that.

You did double Power Slash (a clear indicator that you were churning the stick for this move). Rise DP's that on reaction. You luckily rolled out of a loose pressure attempt.

You caught her jumping with 5B 5C but chose to do God's Hand. That obviously doesn't combo. j.2C would have been enough. It's possible that you just overolled a motion but still. So you get hit and then later on you got hit for doing Ultra Suplex and lost the round. 

So the lesson here is knowing when to commit especially because Margaret is more commital in situations like these. You were winning and quickly dropped your advantage.

Round 3. Both of you decide to start zoning. Both Rise j.C/Margaret j.2D occupy diagonal space and then you did spear so you forced her into the air. For once AOA was actually good choice vs j.C as it can tag keepaway attempts (watch Tahichi vs Koichi FT10 and you'll see exactly how much Aigis was hit for doing that).

You avoided the DP but 5C was eaten. Thankfully you could do 5C again since there was no super meter. Unfortunately you were too far for the full punish. And Rise got Fataled twice in succession from both 5C and 2C.

Looked like you wanted j.C j.2C j.214B but delay gave you 2C 214B?

Too close to mash 5C so it traded. Followed with 2D (iceball accident?) so you got hit with j.B. Got tagged for pressing 2A with Rise 2C. Pretty sure Rise CH j.B > 5A should have combo'd , you did Power Slash very quickly and didn't CH again which tells me that you're doing it way too much and in response to small things. Luckily you waited it out on knockdown and j.C clipped her after doing satellite super.

So it looked you were securing the win by zoning her out during satellite cooldown. Rise teches through sweep and you whiff 5A. You decide to go in, but with j.2D so you slowed your own approach and started whiffing out of range C button attacks. Looked like an attempt at spear. You get scanned for your troubles. Not that scan is a major deal but you continue whiffing slow attacks and Rise does scanned satellites for your spear attempt. So what I'm getting at once again is recognizing when you should back off pressing buttons. It was very possible to upback a predictable scanned disk/laser/super if you were aware. Luckily sweep>214AB saved you from Rise laser even though it didn't combo, guess it didn't CH in time (if possible). 

Hmm I did quite a bit of analysis for one match but I'll truncate the next ones if possible.

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vs Narukami:

R1: You did a good choice in drawing a line with fireball to hit a predicable Swift Strike. You didn't do a full combo however. Usually a crouch confirm into 2A 5C 5B 236D will work vs Swift Strike. You also didn't do a tight string because you did 5C 2C 2D (common beginner pitfall). You did punish the roll with 5B which worked out.

Sweep > 214AB is risky since he just DP'ed it. Meter is important to conserve, one-shot mixups are better near death. You actually didnt get CH'ed but you j.B and fall into Ziocar. You can use j.B with airturn if you feel like moving to the opposite end of the screen but be aware of where you are (and it also affets Negative Penalty gain fyi)

Dropped combos in the corner but he just got hit again so it worked out. He DP'ed your 2A since you didn't have oki to force blockstun.

You tried zoning vs Zio which went well with iceball but you autopiloted 5C 2C 2D again. He also went for SB Swift Strike and you got hit for walking back. Normally vs Narukami it's important to see how they try to challenge our zoning. Spear kills low height Zio but they'll try to Swift Strike under it. From a good distance, he can't challenge iceball like that as it can hit Swift Strike if you draw a line on prediction or you otherwise avoid it by using your air actions. You can't braindead zone him either but just watch what they do.

Can't mash on Narukami safejumps. Even being generous, netplay could have screwed up a throw whiff but definitely know when to hold Narukami pressure.

Throw combo dropped and you j.B out and pressed 5A. Both of those buttons are slow so you shouldn't press those in succession like that. Buttons keep trading and you get Fataled by 2C. Probably Narukami autopiloting himself, but it was more favorable for him to do that. 

He jumps over spear but luckily it didn't get punished and you block. So again with zoning Narukami, watch to see how he acts for a distance before throwing out spears pre-emptively. It looked like he was goign for an autocombo confirm but didn't expect a block so he jump canceled maybe expecting mash. You whiff a 5A, he didn't do anything. 

Epic staredown - ice hits ziocar and you persona break him. This is where you can start going ham of being aware of 5A and sword normals. But you just keep him out. There's no reason to keep back, you could start more solid offense. Unfortunate Heal happens, he hits you with 5B and you Domi Burst but no punish.

You go for 5C 2C 5D and he was too slow and rolled was grabbed. A simple punish for that offhand is CH 5D 2C 2D j.22C 214D since he had a burst.

Multiple scrambles and you throw out SB Hassou Tobi at neutral. To my surprise, you were actually safe but he was slow on the punish.

You did fireball and landed straight into Ziocar. You can't block or do anything else if fireball whiffs so you don't zone at heights with it.

It looks like you're lucky with rolling on wakeup, Narukami can heavily punish it with meaties and spacings where the persona attacks as he turns around. He dropped the kill on that 2C. And unfortunately dropped a simple confirm into Cross Slash. Cross Slash is definitely not punishable by 5C either (or at least non CH recovery). 

R2: Match Start 5C. Narukami buttons are very good at breaking her attacks and he didn't press a button in any case. Too greedy. You went for 5C again and got hit by B Ziocar.

You got out lucky with roll again and it looked like he was going to throw you for trying to roll again.

You whiffed 2A when he was reasonably high and 5B into air Zio. A scramble happens and surprisingly 5C beat out a j.2B attempt. Luckily you were first to the punch because that normally should not happen. You get decent damage and converted it into SB Vacuum for fear of dropping the combo. You were too late on the 5C followup.

Narukami kept jumping through the 2C, when he actually could have rolled it. Luckily for you, he jumped again into fullscreen 2D. You were too far to convert since he wasn't in the corner and whiffed a throw for presumably an SB move without the required meter. So again know when your combos drop and try to correct the situation with tighter pressure.

He waits for the spear and SB Swift Strike killed that on reaction. He gets the safejump off DP and he does meaty throw to kill your roll. This clearly indicates that you shouldn't be doing wakeup roll that often and that he caught on/finally got a chance to catch you. He whiffed 5A jab but since it didn't connect, he threw you again on wakeup. Not sure if he tried a safejump but it otherwise made your 2B whiff. He didn't punish 2B whiffing but after the recovery, you chose to throw spear. That was at least 2 seconds for Narukami to punish you. His combo dropped but you got reset for standblocking Ziocar.

You mash 5A>Power Slash in desperation. You then autopiloted sweep > 214AB on his wakeup. He jumped the sweep but landed into the slide again but you don't follow up.

He Air Zio'ed an expected spear and then airdash j.2B over another spear. j.2B is very much plus and you did AOA don't press buttons after that.

Fortunately for you he kept hitting the armor frames of 5D over and over and he died.

Welp, I couldn't shorten it.

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Random notes for the rest:

AOA at neutral wthout any reason to.

Hops/rolls on wakeup are a hard callout. I don't know if netplay has anything to do with it but meaties kill both of that effortlessly. In fact, I saw several whiffed 2A's for this but he just could not get the spacing he wanted to kill you for it.

Pressing buttons too closely on Narukami, he can outmash easily.

Don't do j.22C after 5D. If they get CH'ed by it, you have plenty of time to confirm with just 2C. If nothing happens, don't press a button and just return to neutral to zone.

Very trigger happy on Power Slash. So much so that you press buttons before it and heavily neuter its damage.

On match start you be careful on pressing 5C/2B and risky moves on whiff. Consider what your opponent might be doing.

He calls out spear a lot with spacing j.2B

He starts throwing you a lot because you're consistently disrespecting his knockdowns.

Minazuki:

Definitely don't press buttons on him match start. His buttons cover sufficient space vs our buttons. You should be trying to position yourself.

He's very good at whiff punishing her ranged attacks if you just do them without realizing.

He wastes no time killing any mash/jump/roll with meaties and command grab. Definitely do not disrespect him on wakeup very often without making an educated guess.

He tried to burst bait but luckily your burst was a pixel from filling back. You bursted on the next hit anyway.

Don't wakeup 5B, it should lose to any of his buttons.

His DP can enter dead zones where 5C can whiff. If he supercancels wave super roll on reaction (unless in the corner) you can't punish it on block except with Power Slash. You can run under the DP and 5C his landing and minimizes the risk of super. Don't fall for DP > super cancel bait too easily.

He seems to think you can't react to AOA bc netplay. You can reasonably standblock and see if he's going for 2A and sweep is supposed to be done at the end of common blockstrings. SB overhead rekka is moreso to keep it safe.

Don't throw out moves like 5C/2C point blank.

He went straight ahead and broke your cards one by one for every button you pressed and eventually broke all 8. Once you get down to a certain amount, conserve your cards. (4-5 is a good number but if I lost 2 back to back, I would immediately start trying something different)

Ultra Suplex is easily baitable and punishable by death. Don't do that on a safejump and do so unpredictably.

AOA vs Minazuki is also punishable. The only move that AOA may likely whiff punish is a predicted 2D(?)

Don't press buttons if you're being combo'd. He got a fresh CH after dropping a combo.

He started throwing out AOA a lot and just seemed confident that you were falling for it or was going to mash on it.

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Thanks for that! I'll be sure to implement what you said. Some of my combos did Infact drop due to netplay but you're right in saying I abuse the AoA and trying to connect moves that don't normally combo together so I'll work on that. Here is some of my offline gameplay on score mode just so you can see how I play without netplay. Obviously I don't expect you to watch the whole thing as it's mainly filled with me trying to be Labrys but I think my first few matches would be sufficient. Thanks again, I really appreciate this! :)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rEDvYMhcJN4

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