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mixedmethods

[P4AU] The Ergonomics Lab Strikes Back vs. Mitsuru Kirijo

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  • Use this thread to discuss the KIRIJO! matchup.
  • This post will be updated as members contribute.
Round Start:
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Neutral:
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Offense:
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Defense:
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Punishes:

On Block:

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On Reaction:
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Character & Shadow-Type Specific Notes:

Combos:

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Mixups:
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Shadow-Type:
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I wish there would be some discussion on this matchup...

 

I found out something that should be looked into more...before A/B coups were a problem for Shabrys but now instead of jumping around hoping to avoid one, you can use the new chain knuckle move to clash with it...cancel the clash to 2B to fatal her, though Mitsuru can cancel the clash herself to save herself. Some interesting scenarios can come out of this.

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I found out something that should be looked into more...before A/B coups were a problem for Shabrys but now instead of jumping around hoping to avoid one, you can use the new chain knuckle move to clash with it...cancel the clash to 2B to fatal her, though Mitsuru can cancel the clash herself to save herself. Some interesting scenarios can come out of this.

Just hit D and jump to deal with Droit. Giving Mitsuru a clash gives her a chance to Fatal or CH you, or, hell, just super and shave off a good chunk of your health bar, since 2B is slow enough for her to land a CH Bufudyne C (20f vs. 18f start-up... yeah). Shab's 5B is faster than her 5B but not faster than her 5A and 2A. Et cetera. Trying to force a clash is a huge, unnecessary gamble with 8k health and Mitsuru's damage.

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Just hit D and jump to deal with Droit. Giving Mitsuru a clash gives her a chance to Fatal or CH you, or, hell, just super and shave off a good chunk of your health bar, since 2B is slow enough for her to land a CH Bufudyne C (20f vs. 18f start-up... yeah). Shab's 5B is faster than her 5B but not faster than her 5A and 2A. Et cetera. Trying to force a clash is a huge, unnecessary gamble with 8k health and Mitsuru's damage.

 

Droit is not very reactable though...jumping around pre-emptively for a lot of the match is silly and can get you equally punished.

 

Anyway SLab 236236D super can punish bufudyne super if you decide not to do 2B. I don't know what else can be reliably done about coup, though this clash could have been useful.

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Anyway SLab 236236D super can punish bufudyne super if you decide not to do 2B. I don't know what else can be reliably done about coup, though this clash could have been useful.

Well, that's kind of the problem with invoking a clash. I just used Bufudyne as an example of a move that beats an attempted 2B, but it doesn't have to be Bufudyne. If you go for Challenge Authority D and Mitsuru doesn't cancel off the clash and/or reacts to the superfreeeze (OMCs, cancels off Asterius, whatever), she can use the time from the super to charge Droit for a CH starter. If she just blocks rather than cancel after the clash and you cancel into super, you're -4 with no OMC to save yourself, down 50 meter, and Mitsuru has a free Droit into damage. Depending on her meter and who has Burst, that could be game.

It's a messy clash that involves a huge amount of risk for making the wrong guess, which is what you're going to have to do at the cancel window since there's no one "best" option that allows you to OS the clash. (Unless you know what the opponent is going to do in response to the clash, which would make you either a god of yomi or require testing the opponent to see how they react to the clash.) I'm not saying the clash isn't interesting, just ... not stable, I suppose. There's no one option you can rely on in a clash scenario, as far as I know.

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All the coup droit are punishable on block (no need to IB) with 5A, at any distance. You just need to mash ASAP (this move has almost no blockstun)

 

This is the big nerf mitsuru got from Ultimax

 

This is still a very bad matchup for shabrys though.

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According to the frame data here:

http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Mitsuru_Kirijo_%28P4AU%29

 

Coup Droit is anywhere from -14 to +9 on block, so I don't see how it's punishable by Shabrys at all distances...especially since her 5A is 7frames startup. Looks to be safe at almost all distances.

 

This is correct. You cannot punish Mitsuru if she's at max range when her droit hits. Droit A is -1 and Droit B is +7. A possible thing you could do is sweep. Shadow Labrys sweep goes pretty far and netplay can make her win over Mitsuru doing 5A. Downside is that Mitsuru can do 5B if she reads it and punish pretty hard.

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My bad, when I tested this earlier i didn't notice that when Mitsuru hits you (on block), then hits your persona with the same coup droit, it becomes unsafe (Mitsuru is then in a hitstop that allows you to punish her)

 

It's a bit tricky but might be useful though

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It might be possible to use that extra hitstop if you're blocking corner pressure, at least if the Mitsuru uses the double Droit string. You'd have to react. Honestly, dealing with Mitsuru in the corner is hell some days -- to quote LK, she can absolutely pick apart your defence.

As an aside, while we're talking Droit, EX Asterius attacks are a godsend (against everything, but particularly Droit). You'll get the extra hitstop, but even better, if the Mitsuru is using EX Droit and has 50 meter, the Droit will be converted into a Guard Cancel due to the charge motion and 6AB. This leads to stupid situations: EX lasers to control space + Mits releasing EX Droit to get in quickly = Guard Cancel Assault on a hit from the beam, then the pillar hits. (If Mits doesn't have 50 meter, then she just gets hit, same as with any other EX Asterius attack vs. just about everything she does.) It's a gimmick and it's not something that can reliably be forced -- since Mitsuru's need for meter went up this game, EX Droit for approach is giving up 25 meter and entering meter cooldown -- but it exists.

On an unrelated note, when dealing with Bufudyne, to avoid a reset, you must wait for her to sweep you (breaking the freeze), then delay your tech slightly until you can ground tech, not air tech. Air tech forward is goodbye to your health bar.

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This is correct. You cannot punish Mitsuru if she's at max range when her droit hits. Droit A is -1 and Droit B is +7. A possible thing you could do is sweep. Shadow Labrys sweep goes pretty far and netplay can make her win over Mitsuru doing 5A. Downside is that Mitsuru can do 5B if she reads it and punish pretty hard.

 

I use sweeps at ranges where 5A might be used, but sweep does not counter droit.

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