Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Magaki

[P4AU] Teddie 2.0 Changes

Recommended Posts

I'll update this post everytime we get new datas concerning 2.0 Teddie.

Teddie 2.0 changes:
[collapse]

Standing AA (Normal)

The longer the button is held, the longer the recovery is

After the 8th hit, can no longer be jump canceled

Increased counter hit window during the move

By holding forward and the A button, the performance of the move also changes


Standing AAA (Normal)

Reduced the active frames of the last hit


Standing AAA (Shadow)

Can be normal canceled into Jumping 2C or Sweep

Can be jump canceled


Standing B

Can be normal canceled into itself for a maximum of 3 times

Increased untechable time on counter hit

Does not increased untechable time after a wall bound has occured


Standing B (2nd Hit Onward)

Increased recovery

On the 3rd swing, cannot be canceled on block

On the 3rd swing, can be canceled into jump or skills on hit


Crouching B

Increased downward portion of hitbox


Crouching C

Can be special canceled


Jumping A

Frame difference when airblocked worsened


Jumping B

On counter hit, after the ground bounce, can be ground techable

Recovery is worse when blocked


Jumping C

Increased recovery for the Persona


Jumping 2C

Persona now appears from the ground

Does not hit opponents on the ground

Can be normal canceled into Jumping C, Jumping A+B, and special canceled

No longer causes Fatal Counters


All D Attacks

Changed the attack portion’s blowback, reduced untechable time

Persona can no longer appear offscreen

Persona is no longer projectile invincible, only projectile invincible during the held version


Crouching D and Jumping 2D

Persona appears slightly farther forward

Persona slightly bounces now


Jumping D and Jumping 2D

Increased landing recovery

Now counter hit state during the motion


Sweep

Creates a different number of fish depending on the number of times the move is used

On the 3rd time the attack is used, it creates 3 fish

The hit property of the 3 fish version is different from normal


All Out Attack

Becomes invincible at an earlier time

Decreased recovery time


Jumping A+B

On hit, causes a ground bounce

No longer has an All Out Rush follow-up

Adjusted total performance, now works as a single hit overhead attack


Items

Various items now have a set 1P or 2P color


MF-06 Brahman / Heavy Armor Agni / Turbo Recon Dyaus

Can be destroyed by an opponent’s attack


Dr. Salt Neo / Mystery Food X / Muscle Drink

Can be knocked away by both player’s attacks

Can no longer be picked up as they are disappearing

Items cannot be picked up when a player is projectile invincible

Item pickup range increased


Mystery Food X

Now reduces HP when acquired


Muscle Drink

Rage time has been reduced


Bike Key

When both player and opponent acquire the key at the same time, priority is given to the player

If the opponent picks up the Bike Key, they gain 10 SP and the bike doesn’t come

Can no longer be picked up as it is disappearing

Can only be picked up while on the ground

Item pickup range increased


Dry Ice

Disappears soon after landing on the ground


Mobile Model Varna

On counter hit, causes stagger

Now foot attribute


D-Type Prithvi

After set on the ground, becomes Armor Invincible

When not invincible, can be broken by opponent’s attacks

When invincible, blocks opponent’s attacks and attacks

When an opponent is overhead this item, it attacks

Is not Armor Invincible during attacks


Amagiya Buckets

After the second row, horizontal placement is no longer affected by screen placement


Teddie Decoy

Increased the opponent’s hitstun time

On successful counter, attack active frames reduced


Bearscrew (All Versions)

B and SB Versions are no longer Fatal Recovery State


B Bearscrew

Increased untechable time

On hit, floats the opponent and allows for follow-ups

Worsened frame difference when blocked


D Teddievision

Reduced total recovery


D Teddie Warp

Added a physical attack during the rush portion


Puppet Teddie (All Versions)

Can change the trajectory of the B and SB versions by inputting Up, Right, or Left

After the attack, the B and SB version now fall faster

The B and SB versions now cause a wall bounce on air hit

The A version now only causes a wall bounce when near the corner

For the airborne versions, can act after during the drop

Reduced the landing recovery of the airborne versions


A Puppet Teddie

Reduced the recovery time


B Puppet Teddie (Air)

Increased the recovery time


2D Teddie (All Versions)

Made the hurtbox during the animation lower


Mystery Teddie SP

Can now do D attacks during the cooldown gauge of Mystery Teddie SP


SB Tomahawk

Decreased startup time


B Nihil Hand

Increased startup time


Guard Cancel Attack

Increased recovery time


Certain Persona Attacks   

Persona is now invincible when appearing until active frames (Standing C, Crouching C, Jumping C, all versions of Teddievision)

[/collapse]

Random notes:


Famous Teddie Player's twitter accounts:
Souji
Minto
Maddo
Moja


Please, feel free to share your opinions and expectations about 2.0 Teddie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Loketest changes:
[collapse]
The informations below concern the loketest and might not be finals.

Sourenga translated the partial changelist for 2.0 that was released November 20th.

Here's the part related specifically to Teddie:



TEDDIE:
- j.2C can be used near the ground, P-Combo Route added so it can be cancelled from j.B
- You can now use D-moves during the cooldown from Mystery Teddie SP

- D Teddie Warp has hitbow for where it comes out

System changes that might affect us:
 

Bad Status
- System message is now displayed when you get hit by a Bad Status
- In Confusion, you now block whether you hold the lever forward or backward
- In Spinning, the latter half where you can only guard has been removed

- In Freeze, you can mash buttons to free yourself
 

All-out Attack
- You can hold the button to do the All-out Rush
- Harder to punish on block
 
Ground Throw
- Super Cancelable
 
Auto Combo
- If you do Skill-moves in the Auto Combo, you get a "Bonus".
 
Some Persona-attacks

- In most of the C-moves, Persona is invincible during the start-up of the move (Until they actually appear on the screen)

Finally, the Shadow changes that will affect Shadow Teddie:
 

Shadow:
- Burst gauge added, Reversal Burst is usable
- Attack power increased
- HP amounts has been individually changed
- SP gain amount has been adjusted
 
Shadow Frenzy
- Only usable when Burst gauge is charged (Usable even if you don't have full SP gauge)
- Unburstable
- Adjusted the amount of SP moves use during the Frenzy

- Activating Frenzy with max SP recovers Persona cards
[/collapse]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As of right now I'm surprised they didn't nerf the moped considering that item can be broken at times. The only real item that was nerfed was buckets but only in terms of how confusion works now, and maybe ice if by mashing buttons to free yourself implies that you can free yourself without having to wait for a combo to drop first. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

j.2C might make it possible to go Hop > j.2C, to beat out lows/command throws and get a FC. Not sure how much use the cancel from j.B might be, since 2C isn't really used that much outside of starters.

 

The hitbox on Teddie Warp might be helpful or harmful. I tend to use it for throw mixups myself, so if the hitbox is going to interfere with throw/2D Teddie cancels, I might not be as pleased.

 

It's also possible to get spin state from Motorcycle Key, but doesn't matter too much with the changes.

 

Autocombo nerf doesn't affect us too much, since the only time Teddie makes use of that is 5AAA > 236236C or 5AAA > Nihil Hand; 5AAA jump combos don't get the SP bonus as is already.

 

Bear in mind we haven't received news of nerfs to any characters, so that might be coming soon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"You can't pick up Kuma's drink or curry if you aren't crouching"
"RIP Kuma"
"If the opponent picks the bike keys, the bike won't show up."
No clue about what this one means.
No clue.

Minto added to the twitter list.
Souji has yet to tweet anything.

Looks like Minto also uses a specific hashtag to make it easier to keep track of the changes.

Stunedge and Xie might also tweet more about Teddie. Please make sure to check them out sometimes and share them here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like pushing the opponent into rage drink is gone, nice that the opponent doesn't get a taste of the moped (it's better to not get the moped then the opponent getting it), and i'm guessing Teddie is going to get hit hard this time around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like they plan to actually nerf items as they consider them to be way too strong. Though, as long as his amazing neutral is the same, we can still expect to be at least high tier.

Let's just wait for more datas to really figure out the direction they plan to take with Teddie 2.0.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like pushing the opponent into rage drink is gone, nice that the opponent doesn't get a taste of the moped (it's better to not get the moped then the opponent getting it), and i'm guessing Teddie is going to get hit hard this time around.

 

That's actually a nerf; as it stands, if the opponent gets the keys the bike appears and has a chance to hit THEM once. The keys are always advantageous for Teddie.

 

The rage drink is going to be very interesting. Rage drink set-ups are still possible if you force the opponent to block low. The most gimmicky set-up I can see for it would be 5AAA into drink > Sweep > OMC > unblockable (if they block low)/combo (if they get hit by sweep).

 

Mystery Food X doesn't seem as good now, unless we have a forced crouching move (236A CH might be one, my memory's fuzzy right now).

 

Reports that some characters lost their FCs, so we'll have to see if 2C kept  it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The changes to the bike make sense as that item was ridiculously good, but the rage drink and mystery food X changes seem wonky and unintutive

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think its that bad that you have to be crouching to pick up the drink/curry. If you drop drink/curry on oki chances are your opponent aren't going to take it so they'll standing block and just get opened up by 2A. If they do crouch, they'll eat an unblockable from rage drink or you get a free tick grab from curry inflicting fear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another Teddie player is providing more datas.

Data in bold is what we didn't know.

First tweet:
"Teddie's changes:
1 jB>j2C gatling added.
2 j2C has no minimum height.
3 5B>5B new gatling. Don't know if it's on hit or block.
4 (Can't figure out what this one means. Looks like it's related to the fish thrown by the sweep. Something about 3 fishes.)"

Second tweet;
"5 5AA isn't jump cancelable anymore.
 6 jB CH untech time reduced. There will be no second bounce.
 7 (No clue what this one means.)
 8 Can't take curry or rage drink unless the opponent is crouching. Even if the opponent presses 2B, the item still isn't taken."

Third tweet:
"9 (No clue. Looks related to 5A.)"

The Teddie player do a few other tweets later that doesn't really provide us with more informations. Just shows that he wasn't thrilled by the new Teddie at all.

Maddo added in the list. Sadly, he had no comments related to the loketest it seems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another Teddie player is providing more datas.

Data in bold is what we didn't know.

First tweet:

"Teddie's changes:

1 jB>j2C gatling added.

2 j2C has no minimum height.

3 5B>5B new gatling. Don't know if it's on hit or block.

4 (Can't figure out what this one means. Looks like it's related to the fish thrown by the sweep. Something about 3 fishes.)"

Second tweet;

"5 5AA isn't jump cancelable anymore.

 6 jB CH untech time reduced. There will be no second bounce.

 7 (No clue what this one means.)

 8 Can't take curry or rage drink unless the opponent is crouching. Even if the opponent presses 2B, the item still isn't taken."

Third tweet:

"9 (No clue. Looks related to 5A.)"

The Teddie player do a few other tweets later that doesn't really provide us with more informations. Just shows that he wasn't thrilled by the new Teddie at all.

Maddo added in the list. Sadly, he had no comments related to the loketest it seems.

3: Interesting.

5: I knew this one was coming, if they were going to nerf his auto combo (again) it was going to the this part.

6: That one is going to suck just a little bit.

7: I think this one is talking about the color of Teddie's items if it's a Teddie mirror match (the best I could judge based off of translate).

 

Teddie is going to be so much more gimmicky then he already is. He's already hard to learn so new people are going to avoid him I feel. Also anyone else wishing they buff SP 2D Teddie to be safer? I've been thrown out of SP 2D Teddie and it's not reliable outside of escaping moves with long startup.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

4 (Can't figure out what this one means. Looks like it's related to the fish thrown by the sweep. Something about 3 fishes.)"

 7 (No clue what this one means.)

"9 (No clue. Looks related to 5A.)"

Sourenga translated those parts for us ! All hail our translator god !

4 "One salmon comes when you first use his Sweep then "Nothing comes  3 salmons come" keep on looping. When 3 salmons come out, you can continue with 5A. When no salmon comes, opponent can easily counter you if they Instant Block or use Furious Action."

7 "2P's items are all different colored, the drum can now has a messy-looking green color."

9 "All the four variants of robot-item now disappear from a hit of opponent's 5A"

4th is interesting but the move is already -13 right now so if no fish comes out, it's extremely easy to punish you and most 5A will work. The fact that you need to IB it might mean that the move got less recovery. Either way, using the fish mechanic would require to certainly use it more in neutral so I wouldn't be surprised if they buffed it to be used as a much safer poke.

7th Looks exactly like what MegaGrandTale guessed. Well, at least the Teddie mirrors won't be a huge mess anymore haha.

9th This might actually mean that every robot-items can now be hit. In case you forgot, this refers to the green, the red, the purple robot that hits low and the yellow robot that is used like a mine.

As for 2D Teddie, I honestly think that this move is more here to be used either to have less recovery on 5B or for mixups. Move is just too slow to be used in neutral or as an additionnal defense mechanic.

That's, at least, how the top Teddie players use it and I completely agree with them. Even in matchups against characters who get horribly punished by it (Akihiko is probably the best example considering that his only options to hit you out of it are Sweep, 5C and a low jC), the move is just way too risky to throw out in neutral.

I think that the best buff this move could have would be additionnal invul but I wish for the duration and the way it works to stay the same.

Teddie can perform a lot of 50/50 thanks to it. D Warp 5A/22A>5A, jD>22AB crossdown, oil drum>22AB, etc all comes to mind and despite them being quite situationnal, changing the duration would hurt them quite a lot.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If sweep has an order of how many fish come out then the best thing i can think of it sweeping a second time so the next 2 times we sweep we have fish to back us up. That is if the way i'm reading this is sweep 1 has 1 fish, sweep 2 has no fish, and sweep 3 has 3 fish. Also when it says you can continue with 5A on 3 fish does that mean they are in the air?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

More changes from Moja (Credit to OutlawVinegar for translations)


"Junpei's bat reflects a projectile when it's hitting Teddie DP lolol"

"2Aor5A (routes? starters?) are unchanged.
5B>5B>5B is a new P-combo route
Kintoki is out for longer on jC
2C is now Special/Super cancellable
j2C now comes out from the ground like grounded 2C, same cancel options as 2C"

"Air version AoA was doing 1200 in one blow (on the first hit).
 Not entirely clear on the second part, it refers to the falling angle, hard to follow up on hit?"

"Bearscrew damage changes:
Grounded A 1035→810
Air A  1395→900
Ground B 1250→1000
Air B 1485→1125
Ground SB 990→1150
Air SB 1100→1375"

"Every version of Puppeteddie causes wallbound on hit. A version's poison went from a 5 second count to a 3 second count.
D Teddievision hitbox adjusted(?). All cancelable (all versions? or all cancel options? I'm a little unclear on all this).
Tomahawk missile damage was lowered a little."

"Moja mentions on the fish thing that it's possible to combo into 2B on a 3-fish hit."


Really liking that j2C change~
Also I'm guessing the air AoA change is that it's just a one hit move now instead of going into all out rush.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Bearscrew nerf is pretty sad. I get that they are trying to make SB Bearscrew better but it adds so much proration to combos it's not worth it most of the time, and you won't really be using it to pile damage onto combos because of the startup time. Teddie has enough trouble doing damage compared to the other high tiers most of the time as is. If you're doing SB Bearscrew early on in a combo (assuming the combo allows for it), anything following will suffer in damage because of the P2; if it's late in the combo, it probably won't connect unless it's a FC. At higher level play I guess you won't see too much of it outside of corner/FC combos, so in the long run it doesn't hurt too bad, I reckon.

 

Two notable upsides at least. Puppeteddie wallbounce is really sweet. FC 214A combos might actually be a thing now, especially since Puppeteddie is already invul to lows. j.2C is also really good, it was what I always expected it to be when it was first announced, and I presume we can use it as an anti-anti-air now since it suspends Teddie's momentum. With it being special/super cancellable we might even be able to do super jump > j.2C > 236A or something.

 

Not sure how air AoA is going to work on grounded opponents if it doesn't go into All Out Rush. If it spins them that might prove interesting.

 

Wondering how S.Teddie is gonig to change. It might be possible to get some cool midscreen combos with Frenzy using the new 214A or j.2C, but I guess we'll see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Bearscrew nerf is pretty sad. I get that they are trying to make SB Bearscrew better but it adds so much proration to combos it's not worth it most of the time, and you won't really be using it to pile damage onto combos because of the startup time. Teddie has enough trouble doing damage compared to the other high tiers most of the time as is. If you're doing SB Bearscrew early on in a combo (assuming the combo allows for it), anything following will suffer in damage because of the P2; if it's late in the combo, it probably won't connect unless it's a FC. At higher level play I guess you won't see too much of it outside of corner/FC combos, so in the long run it doesn't hurt too bad, I reckon.

 

Two notable upsides at least. Puppeteddie wallbounce is really sweet. FC 214A combos might actually be a thing now, especially since Puppeteddie is already invul to lows. j.2C is also really good, it was what I always expected it to be when it was first announced, and I presume we can use it as an anti-anti-air now since it suspends Teddie's momentum. With it being special/super cancellable we might even be able to do super jump > j.2C > 236A or something.

 

Not sure how air AoA is going to work on grounded opponents if it doesn't go into All Out Rush. If it spins them that might prove interesting.

 

Wondering how S.Teddie is gonig to change. It might be possible to get some cool midscreen combos with Frenzy using the new 214A or j.2C, but I guess we'll see.

I know what you mean by using SP bearscrew in combos. The only combo I made for SP bearscrew is FC 2C, 5B (literally as close to the opponent as you can get), SB bearscrew, auto combo into air juggle. Even with FC 2C as the starter the combos drop way too quickly for the combo to be of any use. If J.2C is invin. like most personas attacks seem to be getting then super jump J.2C is going to be extremely good as a anti air attacks worst nightmare. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was fighting p4uplayer today and something came to my mind about the change to spinstate and the mitsuru MU. When the patch happens and the part where you have  to block is gone, Teddie's DP will be nerfed again but only to certain characters (i feel anyway). Think about it, when the opponent gets hit by DP, they go into a spin state and Teddie does is taunting animation. Now all Teddies know that he isn't invin. anymore during the latter half of his animation. The reason we get set back to neutral is because the opponent is blocking because of the spin state. Now that it is gone, if the opponent has a fast move (ex. SP coup) that can hit us before we can move again, it's a free fatal. Now we haven't gotten the patch yet so for all I know I'm just spitting nonsense, but just think about it for now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Won't be able to play for a couple weeks so I can't test it myself, but it shouldn't be too hard to test it:

 

-Set Status Ailments to none, and Block Everything.

-Throw something like Amagiya Buckets, and have the dummy do something that you can DP.

-See if the enemy can block the item while Teddie is recovering. You might need to adjust the timing slightly depending on when the item hits.

 

If they can block it (in other words, the hitstun from DP doesn't last til Teddie's back to neutral), then they can presumably hit Teddie with something like a DP, which can be dangerous since they also get a damage boost from Rage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Might have missed it earlier, but it seems like j.2C might have lost FC properties.

 

5B dash cancel also seems more negative now. Puppeteddie A's poison count also seems to be nerfed to 3 counts of Poison instead of 5.

 

Item collection is possible in either crouching or rolling state.

 

The last one is a bit unclear, but it seems like there's a damage nerf to Tomahawk and Nihil Hand.

 

From another post:

 

・バイクとられたら来ない

・2C始動補正重く

・緑、赤、白のロボは出てきた瞬間からどのタイミングでも攻撃判定を合わせれば消える。

・黄色ロボ、喰らい判定追加。ただし壊れない

 

I can't translate it very well, but it seems something about 2C? Possibly a proration nerf.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Might have missed it earlier, but it seems like j.2C might have lost FC properties.

 

5B dash cancel also seems more negative now. Puppeteddie A's poison count also seems to be nerfed to 3 counts of Poison instead of 5.

 

Item collection is possible in either crouching or rolling state.

 

The last one is a bit unclear, but it seems like there's a damage nerf to Tomahawk and Nihil Hand.

 

From another post:

 

・バイクとられたら来ない

・2C始動補正重く

・緑、赤、白のロボは出てきた瞬間からどのタイミングでも攻撃判定を合わせれば消える。

・黄色ロボ、喰らい判定追加。ただし壊れない

 

I can't translate it very well, but it seems something about 2C? Possibly a proration nerf.

5B dash nerf: Why? just why?

 

Poison nerf: We knew this one for a while and I'm fine with it considering if Shadow Teddie becomes good then all that poison damage would be insane.

 

J.2C losing fatal: Far enough considering if Teddie can hit people by superjumping and do J.2C while they are off screen, then losing fatal is better then not having it at all.

 

Missile/Nihil Hand nerf: I understand Missile damage nerf but why Nihil Hand? It's a 3 frame gap between getting high damage for 50 meter or getting average damage for 50 meter. I guess they want people to use Teddie Circus more?

 

I used a google translate link to see what the last bit said and this one has me scared: "Why do not you come if you are taken bike." I REALLY hope this doesn't mean if the opponent gets the key then no bike comes.

 

-Edit: Nevermind if the opponent gets the key then no one gets the bike. Doesn't say we don't get 2 bike trips though (back then worth) so it's not the end of the world, if we get the key and the bike goes away if we get hit then i'll be upset.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Teddie changes. Can't translate them very well, but from what I can see in the video:

 

-After the first Sweep (one fish), Sweep alternates between no fish and three fish. On the three fish hit, can follow-up with at least 2B, likely 5A as well. Should boost midscreen damage overall when we get three fish.

-2C/j.2C is special cancellable. The video shows it comboing into SB Puppeteddie so seems like there's fairly good hitstun at least.

-5B can chain into itself up to twice more even on block. Untech time on CH seems to be shorter.

-There seems to be a way to force 5B CH during a combo? Holding 5AA long enough rapidly increases the hit count up to 99; the 5B afterwards was a forced CH.

-Some items can be hit to kick them across the screen. Seems like a good way to force Mystery Food X/Muscle Drink onto the opponent using 2A in clever blockstrings. Also brings up the possibility of playing item pong.

-Mystery Food X now inflicts Silence, Fear and Poison.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So now Teddie has Faust item hitting but only consumable items (from what we can see), you can combo 3 fish into 5A there is so much time to hit the opponent, that JB, J.2C combo route is my new best friend; I am going to make so much fun combos with that shit, from what I can tell Teddie getting CH 5B after his punch autocombo is probably like Akihiko getting Fatal when he's at level 5 with corkscrew, but you need to get all 99 hits or it's a frame perfect thing?, 5B chaining for item throwing at a safer distance is nice, hidden robot holding down the opponent is an amazing buff (I was not expecting that at all), I'm iffy on the sweep change but only because i'm confused. I understand it's 1 fish, no fish, 3 fish, however after that it went no fish, 3 fish again, so will it only be 1 fish once and then always 3 fish or is it random for 1 or 3 fish? also the fish seem bigger to me. One last thing, is C moves super cancelable? If they are then I already thought of some good combos if the missiles come out of where the persona is on the screen at the time.

 

-Edit

 

Didn't see it the first time but kicking the item with J.A is (as far as we can see) special cancelable. Wonder if people can make combos with that and raises the question if we can super cancel it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×