[P4AU2] Rise Kujikawa Loketest Changes and Discussion

[RurouniLoneWolf]

I'll be compiling all the RIse changes here to the OP of this thread. Here's what we have so far

 

 

 

 

RISE:

- B ROCK YOU's music note's trajectory can be changed by holding the button, notes now moves forward as they burst

- Tetrakarn and Makarakarn have decreased recovery, added projectile invincibility (SB also has strike invincibility)

- 2B second hit now has head-invincibility

 

 

 

Source

 

Loketest 1 stuff:

• j.B is now a mid. Fuzzies no longer exists
• DP no longer has FC recovery

[Balguna]

Spin state nerfed, RIP Throw > OMC > Risette: Live on Stage.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

Not too big a deal in my mind but I didn't really use it either. Besides, we might be able to get better rewards in general off ground throws now that they're super cancellable. Depends if we get some combos or interesting setups from Ground Throw > Risette Field.

 

The fact that the notes move forward as they explode now is a pretty nice buff though. It'll increase their ability to control space in neutral and possibly make them easier to use for oki setups? Tetrakarn and Makarakarn being projectile invincible isn't quite the air OK treatment I wanted but it's almost just as good so I'm happy with it.

[QSpec]

Am I wrong to be surprised at buffs?

 

I thought Rise was considered to be in a good place?

[RurouniLoneWolf]

You might not know this if you're new to ASW games but for the most part, ASW changes their characters more to change the feel of playing the character than to necessarily buff or nerf characters specifically on how they performed in the previous iteration of the game. That's not to say that they don't actively try to improve characters that didn't perform well in the previous version or tone down character that did perform well, it's just more of a secondary priority in the process of their first priority.

That said, these buffs are mostly buffs to make things useful instead of not really worth using most of the time. Musical notes weren't really worth using too much in neutral before because the space they controlled was limited and easy for the opponent to both intentionally and unintentionally avoid. Being able to better fine tune their trajectory (And hopefully, their end positioning) and having the notes move forward while they're exploding will make them more useful. It's a similar story concerning the Tetrakarn and Makarakarn. Makarakarn wasn't really worth using against zoning because those same projectiles that you want to reflect could very easily snipe you out of the shield's long activation animation. Tetrakarn also has this problem as well, though to a lesser extent because of the characters you are more likely to use it with. Reducing their recovery time and giving the shields' activation projectile invuln put these specials in a place where they are more useful for their intended purpose.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

Double posting for Love and Peace!

 

Just thought I'd drop off the link to find the tweets about Rise Changes. Unfortunately, I can't make heads or tails of anything through google translate. Nothing to do but wait for translations I guess.

[MegaBlues]

If I had to guess, he's saying,

 

Makarakarn and Tetrakarn recover more quickly,

j.B only hits Mid now.

Rock You! B version has a changed note trajectory.

"No sound game time stop". I guess we can still run down the timer with Live on Stage?

 

There are more intricate details, but Google Translate only helps so much.

[So-Called-Chaos]

Wow J.B hitting mid is probably the biggest nerf rise could get, granted it would still be pretty useful but all those surprise IAD j.Bs overheads gone, hopefully its just for the loketest lol

[Tecta1Eastside]

DP isn't FC recovery anymore. J2b unchanged. Throw unchanged.

[Loli Bacon]

DP isn't FC recovery anymore

 

Thank christ.

[Complexity]

So no more fuzzy j.b?

[Tecta1Eastside]

No more fuzzy j.b/double overheads in this loketest

[RurouniLoneWolf]

Making j.B a mid is an odd change. I hope ASW change their mind when they release the final version in January.

 

Hmmmm, disappointing we didn't hear more about the new trajectory control of B Musical Note. Guess we'll just have to wait until P4AU2 release.

[maso]

That j.b nerf really destroys much of her pressure game. You'll have to work really hard to mix people up now. Maybe you'll have to rely on whiff punishes now?

I always thought Rise's strong pressure was to make up for her abysmal damage ceiling (sans live on stage). But I am happy to see the other buffs as well. Notes/Shields definitely needed some love, and such a poor DP never needed fatal recovery in the first place.

I'm just not sure yet if it will be enough now that you can crouch block pretty much everything.

[Balguna]

Teddie players found ways to open people up even having only one high, Rise can do it too. j.A is still a high after all.

[maso]

Teddie also has good normals, specials, and crap to throw out that lets him get in fairly easily and nets good damage. Plus plenty of status effects.

Rise needs to apply lockdown pressure and go for mixups since she only does any damage point blank. J.a is too slow and has such a bad hitbox to use in all but the most ideal situations, and mostly whiffs crouchers anyway. She still has other options, I just feel like nerfing the most threatening one makes all the rest not-so threatening and mostly gimmicky.

However, apparently lots of other characters had similar nerfs. And the average damage output for the cast seems to have been lowered, which should be a good thing for Rise since her output was low to begin with. Too early to say anything for sure yet.

I doubt they'll change it back to hit high. ASW really likes to nerf overused moves.

Lastly, forgot to mention I am quite interested in the note buff. Moving forward while detonated? Does that mean we can extend pressure by doing something like SB Note > 5B (detonate notes) > mixup and deep doing that as long as we have meter? More chances to mixup would be a fair trade to weaker mixups methinks.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

Teddie players found ways to open people up even having only one high, Rise can do it too. j.A is still a high after all.

 

Well as Maso somewhat covered already, the key difference is that both Teddie's j.A and j.B have amazing downward hitboxes that makes both of them ideal for using as mixup. In Rise's case, her j.A is more horizontal and doesn't really have great downward reach. You'd have to be low to the ground to hit someone crouching with it. It works fine in scenarios like blocked 2C, Arrow Rain and scanned Risette Field mixup but not really in general use.

 

However, apparently lots of other characters had similar nerfs. And the average damage output for the cast seems to have been lowered, which should be a good thing for Rise since her output was low to begin with. Too early to say anything for sure yet.

Lastly, forgot to mention I am quite interested in the note buff. Moving forward while detonated? Does that mean we can extend pressure by doing something like SB Note > 5B (detonate notes) > mixup and deep doing that as long as we have meter? More chances to mixup would be a fair trade to weaker mixups methinks.

 

Hard to talk about average damage output this early. People need more time than the loketests will give to rebuild their character's combo theory and start getting the more optimal stuff.

 

Not sure about that last one. We need to see how far the notes travel forward as they're detonating and at what speed before we consider what sort of stuff we can get away with now.

[Complexity]

I thought Rise actually had pretty high damage compared to everyone else.

[Hollysmoke]

I thought Rise actually had pretty high damage compared to everyone else.

 

She needs at least 25 meter to accomplish what most of the cast does meterless.

[QSpec]

She needs at least 25 meter to accomplish what most of the cast does meterless.

 

Yeah I generally feel either starved for meter or starved for damage.

 

I've been getting decent results by making sure to have a crouch combo and a corner combo though.  In either of those situations, her damage goes up pretty fast.

[Hollysmoke]

If Rise's midrange game is improved, I wouldn't mind the j5B nerf. Everything is so slow and punishing for a character that's supposed to be "nimble" and squishy in order to make up for strong pressure. 

[QSpec]

Do we have a good cross-up game to make up for it?

 

Every time I cross up, I can't hit anything due to the short range on our 2/5A.

[maso]

Not really. She's definetly no SLab or Yosuke.

Crossup j.b/2a/throw is good if they're blocking something, but crossup protection neuters true crossup mixups (otherwise arrow rain would be OP). And it relies on the threat of j.b overhead. Closest thing we have is delayed D > crossup > release D, and thats something you won't get away with often.

Also, opening with j.a starter lowers our already low average damage.

Shadow Rise might actually be stronger just for early Live on Stage access and forced unblockable shadow rampage now that shadows have reversal burst, but people would quickly catch on that they just need to save 50 meter to escape it so iunno.

[Hollysmoke]

Can SB barrier also kind of pseudo-DP invul against specials and whatnot? 

 

And jA starter is kind of meh because the hit box is horizontal compared to Teddies' vertical hit box. 

[JyakotuKurayami]

j.B being mid is definitely something they need to change back into a high. j.B is one of Rise's best tools to get in and it's how I do majority of my combos with her.