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RurouniLoneWolf

[P4AU2] Rise Kujikawa Loketest Changes and Discussion

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to be honest I almost never catch anyone crouching with jB unless I did an airdash very low to the ground (from like, a fake empty jump), in which case at that height you can probably hit them with jA instead.

 

Almost always if I catch someone not blocking high, it's from the jA hitting after the jB, not the jB itself.

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to be honest I almost never catch anyone crouching with jB unless I did an airdash very low to the ground (from like, a fake empty jump), in which case at that height you can probably hit them with jA instead.

 

Almost always if I catch someone not blocking high, it's from the jA hitting after the jB, not the jB itself.

 

The whole point of the mix is up is if they're standing and they block, you can try and mix up a 2A in for a low, or go for a throw. Now we have one less option to mess with people's minds.

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Did we get to see/hear about how the moving detonations on notes work? It sounds like it'll be either really terrific or really useless for controlling space and such. I'm really happy about projectile invul on the -rakarns. Now it'll be really easy to set up makarakarn and shut down zoning to get a free way in.

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Now only if there was any reason to risk a tetrakarn. It really should throw out a projectile after the pushblock or something. Or detonate notes. Anything besides pushing them to Rise's worst range, really. Though I've always wanted to pushblock them into arrow rain for the lulz.

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Nope, nothing. Though interestingly enough, the wiki that has the loketest info compiled doesn't mention anything about j.B being a mid. It's possible this compilation just missed it. It talks about the first hit of j.2B but that's always been a mid. Guess they're just reconfirming it.

 

Still, this lack of info from the loketest is concerning for me in terms of the amount of Rise play we can expect from JP when 2.0 releases next week. Hopefully, I'm reading too much into it.

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Footage of Rise's official 2.0 changes

 

Yes! Finally get to see the change in trajectory. So holding the B version of Rock You seems to place the musical notes at ground level at about 1/3  and 2/3 of the screen, making them perfect for controlling ground space. Wish they showed the whole new "Exploding forward" thing though.

 

Also, they'd changed the Platinum Discs. I couldn't quite figure out how just from watching but it looks like its very combo friendly now. Can't wait to see people experiment with it. 

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Woo new footage!

Tetrakarn seems to have a guard point. Or is it strike invincibility? Either way, it's ok I guess. Could be less risky than whiffing a DP, but enh.

The second hit of j.2b seems not to whiff all the time in combos now? If so, it would be easy to set up oki or extend damage after an air combo. Might even be able to end in Risette field forcing them to commit to a block on wakeup and leaving you at perfect mixup range.

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Footage of Rise's official 2.0 changes

 

Yes! Finally get to see the change in trajectory. So holding the B version of Rock You seems to place the musical notes at ground level at about 1/3  and 2/3 of the screen, making them perfect for controlling ground space. Wish they showed the whole new "Exploding forward" thing though.

 

Also, they'd changed the Platinum Discs. I couldn't quite figure out how just from watching but it looks like its very combo friendly now. Can't wait to see people experiment with it.

Looks like less recovery. The foe isn't launched any higher on the c platinum disc in the corner, and yet 2b is able to connect on an originally crouching foe after the disc. And it it can't be increased untech time because the foe would still be able to hit the ground and recover instantly without being launched higher.

Not sure how to feel about the notes, still seem quite like fresh poop... Maybe like you mentioned, it's because their full changes weren't shown in the vid.

Karns seem more useful. Yay to auto burst bait. I think this showcases the fact that the karns effects start immediately after activation. That would be a decent change.

It also looks like j2b is special cancellable with more untech time on landing, which should lead to more grounded knockdown situations I suppose?

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PDF with more detailed list of changes. Rise's changes are on Page 28. I'll make a new thread with the list of final changes when there's a full translation available.

 

Seems like you were right TD. The C Version of Platinum Disc has less recovery from what I'm understanding of Google translate.

 

You're also right Maso. Tetrakarn has strike startup invincibility. The PDF mentions something about the 2nd hit of j.2B on air hit but I can't make it out with google translate alone. If it can reliably get the 2nd hit and its special cancellabe as TD observed, I'm thinking ASW intentionally did this to allow us to set up note oki easier off it but guess we'll see.

 

This is all I could make out from the PDF through google translate. Hopefully a full translation becomes available later

 

  • The "rigidity" of Ds have been decreased. Not 100% sure if rigidity refers to recovery. Pretty sure it does.
  • jA attack level down
  • SB No Touching! Faster start up and "stiffness" declined. Not sure if stiffness means advantage on block.
  • C Version of Platinum Disc = Recovery reduced
  • D Version of Platinum Disc = Got more hits
  • Tetrakarn = strike invincible
  • Makarakarn = Projectile invincible
  • SB Shield = Invincible to everything but throws
  • SB Arrow Rain when analyzed also puts the opponent in shocked status ailment...?!?!?!?!.
  • Hysterical Slap advantage on hit declined? Oh, and it seems they added the ability to OMB the final hit like shown in the video
  • Risette Fields cooldown time has been increased
  • Persona seems to be invincible on startup of C, Rock You and Platinum Disc attacks.
     

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j2B hitting twice on air hit sounds like they're guaranteeing the knockdown follow up at the end that normally whiffs when you combo into it.  Nice, as it means more setup time, which Rise can never get enough of.  Looks like jB is still overhead, too.  All in all, this looks like a nice set of buffs.

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These changes seem pretty good...though I think Live on Stage won't be comboable anymore.

I would say it will still be comboable, cause its pretty much a good way to get high damaging combos. Then again it would be very risky to do it on wake up or if said combo drops, and it's risky of course due to fatal recovery.

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Thanks for the translations Buttface. It's greatly appreciated.

 

Now that we have a full translation, my thoughts so far are:

 

  • Less Recovery on Ds should make Ds easier to use in neutral. Need to see how much less recovery it is though.
  • Don't know what j.B hitbox nerf means. I'll wait until we get some gameplay footage to judge.
  • Reduced blowback on B Rock You sounds good but need to see it
  • Increased hitbox on exploding notes means they can control space/catch people better. 
  • Easier to pop notes with other notes is a curious note. Need to see footage to see what it means

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I wonder if scan into SB Rain combos are gonna be thing now that it causes shock. I'd take shock over scan oki personally.

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It's certainly something worth experimenting with. I'm curious to see how JP Rise players will build up her 2.0 combos in general with these changes.

Also, just a heads up that I'll be making a separate thread with all the final changes when I get home tonight. Half because to give them greater visibility and half because I want to separate them from the loketest discussion so it'll be easier to compile the changes we see in 2.0 footage and hear on the interwebs from JP players.

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This thread has been pretty dead for a while, so it's time for some questions about her changes, listed here: http://pastebin.com/1tWyZ9sm

 

5AA

Has the faster startup made this better or worse for blockstrings and tick throws?

 

5AAA

Has the increased level done anything to help this? Has anyone made use of the new gatlings into sweep and AoA?

 

2B

How much has the head invul helped? Can we anti-air things like Adachi's j.5c?

 

5C/j.5C

Has the decreased blockstun made using this in blockstring resets noticeably less safe?

 

2C

Have we seen specifically how this interacts when gatlinged into D moves?

 

j.A

Has the decreased attack level affected the move much at all?

 

j.B

Has the decrease hitbox area affected the move much?

 

j.2B

Is the second hit always guaranteed, or are there situations where it will still miss?

 

AoA

Has the reduced recovery made this better to use? Has the startup decreased any?

 

Throw

Is this still comboable on CH midscreen?

 

236A

Is 22A 236A 214214CD still a valid corner combo, or is the increased recovery too high? Is this safe on block? Is this safe on hit without super cancel?

 

236B

Is the reduced blowback only for ground or air hit? How does this affect combos?

 

Note Hitbox

How noticeable is the changed hitbox area?

 

214A/B/SB

Are these now safe on block, due to the pushback? Is SB No Touching worth using now?

 

214C/D

Are these safe to use while being pressured?

 

SB Arrow Rain

Does this only stun on hit, or also on block? How long is the stun? Does the opponent regain air movement if they're stunned mid-jump?

 

236236A/B/AB

Does the reduced recovery mean we can safely restart pressure after hit? How does this move interact with 236A?

 

214216C/D/CD

How has the increased startup affected comboability? Is 22A 236A 214214 C/D/CD still possible? Is 22B 214A 214214C/D/CD still possible?

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1) stagger seems better to me (5aa)

2) haven't seen aoa outside of corner mixups and i assume 5aaa > sweep > notes is an occasionally good idea on block (5aaa)

3) (5c) do you mean dash cancelling after 5c during pressure? tbh it didnt seem that safe in 1.1 and i dont think its a good idea in 2.0

4) (j.B) umm it's still good especially for mixups. i think the hitbox is still above average.

5) (j.2B) nope if rise is too low from opponent second hit will drop.

6) (AoA) tbh i haven't seen a huge AoA increase in 2.0 in general outside of combos but i imagine its slightly better for those scummy corner mixups.

7) (Throw) i dont think so

8) (Note Hitbox) it's pretty real. midscreen mixups are much scarier now.

9) (214a) idk when you would really use it on block so idk. i think sb is still bad because the routes it might open up are already achievable through 2ab > 236c combos.

10) (214c) i don't imagine so...iirc it's only invul during animation but i doubt the recovery would make this very safe.

11) (214214c/d) i think you need to use it during an sb rain combo because of the longer start up or something

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Shield animation is projectile invul in start-up right? I imagine shield is actually good for calling out reversals. I think I've seen a Rise use shield through a projectile and then get the advantage but I don't remember.

If it's projectile invul it should beat things like Liz's agi oki after 2C, right?

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