Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

bluzenblazen

Slayer critique thread.

Recommended Posts

vs I-No

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsg2qLUECl4

Decent overall. Would like to see more 6p in neutral to shut down HCl and raw dash pressure. I feel that 6p and 6hs are key in this match.

 

vs Leo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRPCARoiOSM

New character. Hard to give advice on. The only thing I suggest for now is more disrespect of his back turned oki. I d step on wake up a lot in this match to get away. Also if he has his back to you in neutral do more d step into throw to call out the counter and make him we one guess it as an option.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And the last clips I care to edit out to YT from last night.

vs Faust

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m48DIbX8mRo

vs Sin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jSbkWY315E

Can't watch the sin match, at work. You play this Faust often lol. You can tell. Good job setting up counter hit opportunities. The only suggestion I have is to maximize your damage vs Faust. He is fat as hell in the air.

Some general notes. Work on consistency. Maximize your touches. 6p more. Don't ignore 2hs as an option in the corner. I know it was nerfed, but if spaced at the tip it will catch people not blocking or pressing quick buttons on wake up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you for posting your matches btw. Hopefully more people will follow suit and put themselves out there. I should have some footage at the beginning of January myself and I hope everyone has a lot to say about what I can do better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment. It's nice to have people point out things to do and especially what to stop doing when getting stuck in flowchart play.

It's early in the game so still easy to spot a lot of the things you're doing bad/wrong. However I've already improved on some points so hopefully next batch will be better

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And the last clips I care to edit out to YT from last night.

 

vs Sin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jSbkWY315E

 

So I'm watching your Sin matches and you're doing great. You're keeping the pressure and I noticed at least one occasion where you burned meter to prevent him from having a safe way of eating food. Good job on that. Some things that I saw:

 

@2:34 - You landed a dust in the corner and got the wall-splat but seemed like you weren't really ready for it and it resulted in no extra damage and losing the corner. That's just a composure thing.

@3:31 - You're down to pixels and have bar to make one combo win you the round, so when he whiffs his super you had time to do most anything you want. The game is still crazy young and I haven't seen anyone work on this kind of thing but that's a situation where I'd want a developed burst-bait setup in my back pocket. So something to thing about if you (or anyone else, share the tech) are ever in the lab.

@6:49 - I noticed this round that you've gotten him into the habit of mashing and it looks like you noticed it too because you did a very nice dandy punish of his wakeup. Slayer really wins when he starts conditioning his opponent so now I'm guessing you're going to start punishing his mashing. Then he'll be afraid to push buttons and you've already won. Well played sir, Slayer would be proud.

 

I'll leave that, I'm waiting for more work to come in so nit-picking your play is apparently how I'm filling my day. Sorry to seem to go on a bit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
@2:34 -

@3:31 -

@6:49 -

 

@2:34 - I was actually waiting for the burst. People tend to burst on dusts ALOT. But me trying to "bait" bursts is a really bad habit and I've been called out on it many times and I need to stop.

 

@3:31 - Sin can steer his Ride the Lightning so it's extremely difficult to punish. Especially with a character with lower than average mobility. He can also choose do to do less hits than 3. As for the burst bait you can always do whatever into K dandy in an attempt to hard read a burst. So if you get a clean punish with c.S, late cancel it into K Dandy and if everything goes alright you avoid burst and can punish with CWH.

 

@6:49 - I actually just backdashed but the problem with Sin on oki is that even if you block his bad reversal shoryu he can just cancel it into slide special and be + on block so it's best to not even let him get it on block. Learnt the hard way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another new video.
I rather only post vids of me doing 1on1 sessions with people. Cutting and editing wins/losses from stream archives sucks so that's why I don't really get loads of vids. But hey, it's alot more hours than anyone else is posting! Where you all at?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RssUh2wfKIA

Getting bodied these matches though. Shinjin leveled up alot and it was a though matchup to begin with.
I also tried ALOT of Blitzing to get experience with it so seemingly I don't block alot on wakeup...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

4 matches vs same Chipp, 2-2. I scammed the shit out of him for those wins. This is the second best guy I've played, behind a Millia who basically double perfected me twice. Also the first Chipp I played who didn't just Alpha spam.

 

I watched all the Kubo and En Xrd vids so maybe I copied them a bit.

 

I sense my bad habits are jumping out of guard, mashing H instead of P/K out of guard, random air attacks, random K Dandy, and giving up momentum with bad PB/CWH/2D. Never played beyond #R so I think 2H is nice. I still get away with dumb greedy play and 0 ground dashes but I want to change that. I could probably use more Mappa and Mappa RRC combos.

 

I'd like to get analysis on good times to Backdash. I'm using the PS4 controller and it feels weird to push 44/66. I'm not ready to think about character specific stuff but I'll keep it in mind.

 

 

Match 1 - Win

http://youtu.be/LyhPIbLva0I

 

I won round 3 with my lame RRC-fake walk up throw-2H. Probably a lot of times where I should have blocked instead of attack in the air.

 

 

Match 2 - Lose

http://youtu.be/L-YXVQxz9xQ

 

I get blown up. Ate all those Alpha followups,Gammas, and leaf throws. I miss the confirm off CH Helter Skelter in round 1 but he had Burst anyway

 

 

Match 3 - Lose

http://youtu.be/Ya1C5TSuOh4

 

I open with P Pilebunker cause I saw him use f.S, 5H, 6H a lot as openers in spectate. That dumb c.S f.S RRC probably cost me round 1. Round 2 is just embarassing.

 

 

Match 4 - Win

http://youtu.be/d6skckY4tYY

 

I started trying to block Alpha followup instead of counter. I figured out he always does j.D after 623H and I manage to punish it. I have a lot of games where I can't close but he ran into my random CWH.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-

That Chipp was kinda really bad. Barely hitting 1 full combo.

Sorry to say but there wasn't a single combo from your part.

And you already mentioned you NEVER use dash. Only jump and Dandy to move around. That's also really bad.

Again you already mentioned it but since you use Dandy to move around you bust out ALOT of PB/CWH for absolutely no reason. It's against Chipp so it's not all bad because random blowing him up can be worth it. And he rarely even punished them and they're -20/-14 on block...

You are also dropping random pokes into Mappa. Scoring 2K CH into 5K then Mappa on block. Stoping pressure for no reasons after jump-in on random hits on block just totally giving up on pressure.

 

Overall defense is another big issue. Learn the basic frame data for things that people abuse. Like Alpha Blade followup that is punishable on normal block (-13) with 5K, Mappa RC, that is 200dmg on Chipp. You need to hit that everytime. Just blocking and let himself expose himself for 200dmg...

Blitz vs teleport j.HS is also godlike. The large amount of active frames of blitz makes it really easy actually. Dno about the damage there but roughly 150ish.

Atm I'd say your absolute biggest issue is your movement. It's extremely stiff and after that you will surely improve your footsies alot. Then conversions of hits and actually getting into combos for damage not just scoring random hits here and there and never ever getting oki where Slayer is actually at.

I am by no means trying to put you down it's just me giving critique is being harsch/tough love. If things get sugercoated you might retain bad habits and/or think something is better than it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alright, thanks for that Fogel. Can't play until Thursday so I'm making a list.

 

1. Practice moving with dashes and spacing 66/6[6], less jumps and Dandy

2. Cut out random PB/CWH

3. Stop randomly attacking when out of range, get closer with dashes first

4. Buffer and confirm Mappas, learn what to punish with 5K Mappa RRC K CWH

5. More UP or empty Dandy, less PB/CWH/Helter (already had several people beat Helter with Throw or 2P)

6. After c.S f.S, go into c.S 2D or (c.S f.S) Mappa RRC

7. Start using dash crossups, Throw OS, (5K) IAD S

8. Practice BDC Mappa, Dandy, maybe DOT, and FDC Mappa on 4F delay

9. Gatling 2PSD on 2P confirm instead of 2PSH

10. Get better at blocking and punishing slower specials, maybe IB or Blitz

11. Work on timing j.2K-PK and j.2K-K and confirming height after j.2K (get a lot of black Beats here still)

12. Escape corner pressure with Faultless and (BDC) sj. airdash FLJ

13. Get better at predicting obvious Bursts and reversal supers

14. Maybe study frame data

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That list is kinda daunting.

You can take it rather slow imo. Picking up a few things at a time. If you try to alter your whole play immediately it just doesn't work like that. My way of learning is that I set out for specific things if I play online for a while. For example I wanted to implement c.S, f.S, j.D, DHD on standing opponents so I could use it a whim in my otherwise normal play. I focused on that. Whenever I had 50% meter I tried creating scenarios for it and used alot of dash through pressure because that was most often I'd hit people standing.

If you'd stop using dandy (for the time being) and only jump IAD as movement and instead used dash and c.S, f.S and 5K as pokes to either Mappa RC dmg or 2D for knockdown you'd already have alot more solid gameplan. Then you'd have oki that you could mixup to score additional damage.

Also I don't see any reason at all why'd you'd spend time in training mode on 4F delay. That sh!t is seriously going to break your play. If you NEVER EVER are going to play offline then maybe okay... but otherwise just don't do it. If you play with people and get 4F delay online it's better to have black beats (if you can't adjust) than to not be able to play properly offline.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.twitch.tv/guiltygym

 

Hey, kinda new to dustloop

Playing Slayer on my twitch channel most of the time online but sometime with some friend offline, I stream so that ppl can help me get better so if anyone want to play a game for fun or to help me get better, just tell in chat xD

Still trying to get better with my neutral game and still praticing soome basic combo =p

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some matches before I hit training mode. 3-1 against SJDeuces (Venom). Sarvets was playing Sol in same lobby, gotta get a match with him later

 

1 (Lose)

http://youtu.be/4701pzFey5E

 

2 (Win)

http://youtu.be/ZA0PnKti2ss

 

3 (Win)

http://youtu.be/U6OgIoeNF34

 

4 (Win)

http://youtu.be/Gf4HPscFmMs

 

 

Lots of fun with airdash j.S oki, but I guess Venom doesn't have much to respond with

 

Enemy Venom notes:
-Oki felt slow sometimes, rarely did TK Mad Struggle instead of 2K on landing
-Did a lot of raw Balls in front of me
-2H/6P probably would have stopped my air offense
-Mainly used 2K/D to stop guard pressure, so I used 2H a lot
-Didn't seem sure what to do with Stinger YRC
-Almost no Carcass Ride, Double Head Morbid, or teleport use

-Tried Blitz Shield a few times, not sure why he didn't use more on wakeup against j.S
 

My notes:

-Tried some ways to go through balls, ended up just jumping around
-Should have tried more 6[6] when closer
-Still doing random/early air attacks and dumb Dandy Steps
-Sitting on meter a lot

-Back airdash j.S doesn't always allow c.S followup, maybe try 5K/2K

-Never went for a lot of anti-air opportunities

-Could have used more Faultless

-Need to get better at confirming c.S f.S into 2D

-Air combo route seems to be j.SHD2K > j.K > dj.SHD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lots of fun with airdash j.S oki, but I guess Venom doesn't have much to respond with

Venom has alot to respond with. With everything Slayer has j.S is probably amongst the worst oki really and you should never use it unless it's straight jump to safe jump shoryu. But even in that case j.K/j.H is better options. Slayer has really good oki that leads to massive damage with good play and you are completely wasting it and throwing it out the window. As said previously I'm not suger coating things.

 

Jumping balls is your safest bet to block but you can end up havint o use alot of tension to block ground-to-air hits getting stuck and losing your air momentum. You can 6P slow high balls, require some timing. You can dash forward but also requires timing and obivously alot easier on slower balls. Using j.2K to retain your altitude vs Venom can be useful but if they catch on you'll soon be shot out of the air.

 

You are still having trouble with movement using mainly jump and air dash still.

You need to learn pressure on block at all. Every single blocked hit should lead to you starting pressure considering of going into 6HS, Dandy Steps, IAD j.S(x), j.K and dash pressure. At the moment you do something on block and they are free to leave.

 

Combos and conversions still very lacking. This doesn't come over night but if you hit the lab and practice combos ALOT you will gain muscle memory and be able to do them in matches. You scored a 2HS CH in the corner and you did 6HS, PB. You should have done. 6HS, 214P-S, c.S, j.SHD, j.2K, j.PK, dj.KD (for example). You even had 50% meter so you could have used RC, 6HS, 214P-P again at the very least. You don't even have to look at your own meter. You can just RC and that will give you enough time to react accordingly to the situation.

You seem to not quite understand when and how 2D will work. You should play around with it more in practice because you are getting punished alot for blocked 2D's. It's a waste.

Personally I think there's an excessive usage of 6P and 2HS. Kinda works out though. But at your stage I'd probably wanna focus more on using the really good footsie and neutral tools. But by no means throw 6P and 2HS out of the window.

 

Biggest issues;

Oki is practically non existent

Movement, related to above as well. Because of poor movement you are giving up ALOT of oki.

Conversions and combos.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Venom has alot to respond with

I got to fight a Venom and a bunch of others who shut that down fast.

 

I did start training mode after that. My regiment is:

1. Practice 44/ 66/ 6[6] by itself - Should be able to do it 10 times consecutively. I still get accidental jumps/superjumps, which should never happen.

2. Set dummy to Random block and practice c.S f.S / 5K / 2K confirm into Mappa - I get about 1 out of 10. Sometimes I think I buffer 236 too early/fast.

3. Work on f.S links - This is really annoying online cause I always lose momentum when I drop the link. It's not a problem on 2-3F but 4F really hurts. Unfortunately, I'm stuck with wireless for now.

4. Work on confirming into 2D and spacing far hits - I agree I don't understand 2D very well and mash it a lot after 2K.

5. BDC Mappa and 66 / 6[6] BDC Mappa - Seems useful but I can't reliably do it in live fights

 

 

After some training, I got about 20 matches against eh_sama Ky aka ehuangsan and won 2 separate rounds, so our matchup is 0.5-9.5 :v:. I think he almost played 50 matches in a row and about 60 overall. I felt he was giving me an easier time but it was still fun and challenging to try to read him.

 

Enemy notes:

-If he has meter and gets 2D / Stun Dipper / VT, he will confirm into RRC corner carry or VT loop

-If VT hits too high in corner, he will know it's techable and go for Airthrow forward tech trap. I beat it once with a late tech I think but that was random

-Did most variants of CSE oki, didn't use whiff j.K. Empty jump 5K / 2K and delayed airdash j.S gave me trouble

-During guard pressure, he was kind enough to only use dash to Throw, no dash normals. I kept thinking I should OS Throw when I saw the dash but I never tried it

-j.D all over the place. I did manage to 6[6] through some Air Stun Edges so that was cool. The crossup setups hit me a lot

 

My notes:

-Sometimes 2D would not combo after c.S f.s (x2) > 2K. I thought it should always work after forward Dash crossup so there's something I need to look into.

-Against blocked/hit Mappa, he would spam 2P/D, basically forcing me to block.

-Against 66 crossups, he would spam 2P or rarely wakeup VT. If I actually tried to do a meaty, I think I would beat 2P easily but then he might start Throwing. I did try faking the dash then using 2H but that's just random.

-I could not Throw meaty 5K or 6H. He wasn't bothering to space them so it should have been possible right?

-Need to be faster at IAD and try with j.K

-Need to use more meter offensively. Once I start using UP more, I'm going to have a lot of tension.

 

 

Questions:

1. When to IAD in my block pressure? - I assume c.S / f.S / 5K JC are the usual. What about after 2K / 6H / UP / Dandy?

2. What to do after 66 / 6[6] crossups? - I use c.S and I'm thinking of 6K (YRC). I'm still scared of Throws.

3. 2P/D spam? - I'm guessing once I do any oki at all, this will start going away. Just in case, what should I respond with? BDC / Dandy (YRC) / IAD?

 

 

Thanks again for your time and effort Fogelstrom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
-Sometimes 2D would not combo after c.S f.s (x2) > 2K. I thought it should always work after forward Dash crossup so there's something I need to look into.

-Against blocked/hit Mappa, he would spam 2P/D, basically forcing me to block.

-Against 66 crossups, he would spam 2P or rarely wakeup VT. If I actually tried to do a meaty, I think I would beat 2P easily but then he might start Throwing. I did try faking the dash then using 2H but that's just random.

-I could not Throw meaty 5K or 6H. He wasn't bothering to space them so it should have been possible right?

-Need to be faster at IAD and try with j.K

-Need to use more meter offensively. Once I start using UP more, I'm going to have a lot of tension.

 

 

Questions:

1. When to IAD in my block pressure? - I assume c.S / f.S / 5K JC are the usual. What about after 2K / 6H / UP / Dandy?

2. What to do after 66 / 6[6] crossups? - I use c.S and I'm thinking of 6K (YRC). I'm still scared of Throws.

3. 2P/D spam? - I'm guessing once I do any oki at all, this will start going away. Just in case, what should I respond with? BDC / Dandy (YRC) / IAD?

 

 

Thanks again for your time and effort Fogelstrom

I have not done extensive testing with Sx4, 2K, 2D but on crouch I know it works on Ky but not I-No and Ramlethal unless you start absolutely point blank. You might have missed it for some weird reason, it definitely works. Maybe Ky has some awkward hitbox.

Ky 2D has 7F startup with 7F active so if you can 2HS after Mappa for CH if you both press on earliest possible frame. You'll get beaten by 2P since it has 5F startup. In this case BDC Mappa or straight into Dandy, but dandy loses to 2D obviously.

Against people who mash vs teleports start using throw mash. You'll throw them each time basically so they have to either throw you or respect the teleport. Make sure to use the oki from throw.

You can just mash 4 or 6HS like a god damn fool vs meatys if they are poorly spaced, there is no shame! And yeah you can throw meatys unless they have airborne properties or throw invul obivously.

 

----

IAD mixup after

c.S, f.S, IAD

c.S, f.S, c.S, f.S, IAD

c.S, f.S, 2K, IAD

c.S, f.S, 5K, IAD,

c.S, f.S, c.S, f.S, 5K, IAD

5K, 5K, (5K), IAD

2K, 2K/5K, IAD

etc. You get the idea. Just so you get somewhat okay space'ing with the jump not ending up to far behind them. f.S, 5K and 2K all plus on block so they are generally better for this pressure imo. Also at any point you can IAD you can either 6HS, Dandy and 66. Simple but effective.

After teleport through your options aren't that many. c.S, f.S confirms, throw and maybe 2K just for the sake of low. I don't use anything else.

I wrote a little something about going up against mashers in the general thread. Know frame data and frame trapping. If they mash on oki just do meatys. If you fail meaty you just have to learn how to not fail it the hard way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No training today, just matches. Focused on dashes and Instant Blocks so I died a lot, but I think I'm getting more consistent damage. I can even do DOT somewhat consistently now.

 

Starting to feel that Slayer magic. What I need is faster UP/IL and to start using BDCs then I'll really start to feel like I'm playing Slayer.

 

Today's set is versus Sol, 2-4. This was the last set I played tonight, but I was doing some fancier stuff earlier. I played this guy before and he plays cautiously. He uses big specials a little too much so I get some okay punishes off them. I was trying to test what forward dash could go through so I end up blocking a lot less than I usually do.

 

Match 1

http://youtu.be/--cKrxep_2M

 

Match 2 (Win)

http://youtu.be/HfY0GU8P9IQ

 

Match 3

http://youtu.be/39NSgb4zn8M

 

Match 4

http://youtu.be/hZecnemskdA

 

Match 5

http://youtu.be/Q4rzwCFbc4o

 

Match 6 (Win)

http://youtu.be/_mtqyzr8JeM

 

 

Enemy notes

-Doesn't throw against dash crossup

-Doesn't mash 2P or 5K out of guard

-Kinda random specials or HS's out of range, will never YRC them

-After double jump, tends to use Break

-Almost always mashes VV after blocking UP

 

My notes

-Against c.S f.S > Bringer, should backdash or jump instead of block

-Against Gunflame YRC, don't get hit by 2H from air

-Against regular jump, probably should dash away instead of standing still

-Against Riot Stamp, forward dash will never work, just hit 6P

-Need to switch guard slower against airdashes

-Need to stay closer sometimes for 6[6] punish

-Need to confirm when to use c.S 2D instead of c.S f.S xx 2KD, also sometimes I'm too slow with f.S xx 2K

-Don't forget to use walk instead of only dashing

-Don't give up on 2H/6P, try to work them in more intelligently

-Don't use Faultless so much before starting to block

-Gotta get that Mappa confirm and RC combos

-Maybe start using more YRC. Hase style???

 

 

Can't believe our critique thread is already the biggest. Where is everybody else?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×