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OneSanitarium

[Xrd] I-no Combo Thread

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Oh sweet!

 

+64 GB in Corner vs Sin (working on his combos right now for the wiki):

 

Throw > 6H > HCL > 5H > HCL ~ D                                                                                                                        (178)

Throw > 2K > c.S > sj.S > sj.H > Pdive > dash j.H > Pdive > Pdive > Sdive > c.S > j.S > j.H > Kdive                      (250)

Throw > 2K > c.S > sj.S > sj.H > Pdive > dash j.H > Pdive > Pdive > Sdive > 6H > HCL ~ D                                  (252)

 

 

And for reference (still with +64GB):

 

Throw > RC > short dash j.D > VCL > c.S > VCL > c.S > VCL > c.S > sj.S > sj.H > Pdive > dash j.H > Pdive > Pdive      (244)

 

 

That RC prorate hurts.  Better practice these, even if it'll rarely come up.  Suddenly I-No's throw is a high damage option if you've pressured your opponent.  Now if only f.S was the +R version so we'd have a strong RISC cranking move with frame advantage besides 2H.

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Throw > 2K > c.S > sj.S > sj.H > Pdive > dash j.H > Pdive > Pdive > Sdive > c.S > j.S > j.H > Kdive                      (250)

Throw > 2K > c.S > sj.S > sj.H > Pdive > dash j.H > Pdive > Pdive > Sdive > 6H > HCL ~ D                                  (252)

 

 

Doesn't seem to work VS I-No unless you replace 2K with 5P and even then it's very inconsistent.  I actually haven't been able to get further than the 3rd P-dive yet but I could just be doing it wrong.

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With I-No I couldn't get any Pdive combos to work, but I didn't want to grind on timing all night for one small thing like that.  Pdive is hard to connect on lightweight and skinny characters depending on what you use to set it up.

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corner throw(counter) > 2P > c.S > straight jump cancel > j.S > j.H > S dive > c.S > VCL > 5P > c.S > j.S > j.H > HCL+followup works on everyone except May, Zato and Ramlethal (the straight jump cancel > j.S whiffs). Pretty easy to do and does roughly half bar damage.

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Been playing around with the 2S xx HCL, 214P corner juggle ender that got some stream-time at Evo, but obviously not enough, as I didn't realize it was this close to universal:

 

Check out this Nico vid demonstrating it being performed on the entire cast, with only minor adjustments for the heavy characters.

 

Perhaps Mynus or one of our other cunning linguists could confirm whether there's any extra vital information in the text at the beginning and end?

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I was testing out burst punish combos for a bit. These are for blocked burst.

 

Midscreen

5H (air hit) > (sj)IAD j.K > j.S > FFVCL > usual character specific ender for midscreen FFVCL.

 

Corner

5H (air hit) > (sj)IAD j.K > j.S > FFVCL > VCL > c.S > P. Dive loop.

 

using 6P > 5H to start the combo loses a bit on damage, but the timing is slightly easier.

 

Are these practical, or should I be looking in some other direction for punishing bursts?

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I think catching them falling after the burst with Hs is probably optimal if you can get it consistently. I actually have a super bad habit of just using the burst as a mixup instead of getting the straight up punish. It usually works out but yeah don't do that :-(

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5H is a good general starter since it'll lead to meterless damage anywhere on the screen.  IAD into the usual 'j.K > j.S > FFVCL > whatever' as you said.

 

If you have them in the corner, c.S > VCL loop will probably lead to more damage (character dependent on how many VCLs you could get - might need to c.S > 5H > VCL or something).  This could really hurt, but depends on context a little bit.

 

If you have 25% and they're in the corner, 'VCL YRC > j.D > VCL loop > Pdive loop' will hurt really bad.  Like 50% on Pot to 70% on Chipp (starting from full, so before guts kicks in).

 

If you have 50%+ you can Fortissimo, and 'IAD j.K > j.S > FFVCL > whatever' if they're mid screen, or go into VCL loop in the corner.  This would be the max damage scenario, though it's expensive for like 20-30 more points of damage than the VCL YRC option.  Use this if you caught them panic bursting to escape after you cranked RISC (to get huge damage), or to kill, or if you have a meter surplus (75%+) and they're low on meter to use to escape your oki afterward.

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Can anyone please help me im going crazy here... im trying this corner combo on Sol:

 

c.S > 6P > 5H > sj. IAD j.K > j.S > FFVCL > VCL > c.S > j.S > j.H > P Dive > AD fwd > j.H > P Dive

 

i get the IAD j.K stuff pretty consistently but for the life of me i cant get the c.S after the 2nd VCL to connect constantly... in about 3 hours ive gotten in like twice... most of the time it will either not come out or black beat...

 

Could anyone tell me the intricancies of this combo? Im goin fukin nuts seriously, please help :)

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No real trick for that link unfortunately. After the second, grounded VCL you just do immediate close slash ASAP.

As a crutch, you could learn the link with standing jab but you'll mess up your spacing for the p-dive and have to settle for k dive or hcl knockdown. You could super jump into the p dive stuff as well but overall just learning the close slash link would be best.

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Oh well, lets grind ^_^

It might help to practice c.S > VCL loop with the j.D starter combo listed in the original post. This should give you a pretty good hand on the timing between VCL and link to c.S. Learning this is very, very useful when the opponent makes a bad high burst in the corner, or gets hit with the second hit of 6H when option selecting throw in the corner and he tried to jump out.

j.D > Fortissimo > VCL > c.S > VCL > c.S > VCL > c.S > j.S > j.H > Pdive > dash j.H > Pdive

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Can anyone please help me im going crazy here... im trying this corner combo on Sol:

 

c.S > 6P > 5H > sj. IAD j.K > j.S > FFVCL > VCL > c.S > j.S > j.H > P Dive > AD fwd > j.H > P Dive

 

i get the IAD j.K stuff pretty consistently but for the life of me i cant get the c.S after the 2nd VCL to connect constantly... in about 3 hours ive gotten in like twice... most of the time it will either not come out or black beat...

 

Could anyone tell me the intricancies of this combo? Im goin fukin nuts seriously, please help :)

Could it be that you're adding some hits before the first c.S? That may allow the opponent to tech between the 2nd VCL and c.S. If you're not doing extra hits before the first c.S, then the only other thing I can think of is maybe your 2nd VCL is too slow.

 

To be honest, adding even one hit before the first c.S makes the VCL c.S link too difficult for my tastes. I'll only attempt the link if I know for sure that I started from either 2K, c.S, or 6P. If I started from something like hover dash j.S > c.S, then I'll choose a different combo route like FFVCL VCL 5P c.S sjc ... or FFVCL j.S j.H P-dive. That's just my personal preference though.

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I've played around a lot with the corner BnB I linked on Tuesday and figured I'd share some of my initial findings.  First off all, here's the gist of it transcribed (hopefully the superscript, numbered-list and Dustloop's new paragraphing don't screw with the readability for Tapatalk mobile users):

(single-hit opener)1 6P-5H, jc.2 IAD j.K-S xx ffVCL, VCL3, c.S3jc. j.S-H xx4 P.Dive, airdash j.H xx ffVCL, 2S5 xx HCL6, grounded note7

Notes:

  1. If you commit multiple hits before the 6P, there is an easy solution to keep the combo from dropping against most characters: replace the [IAD j.K-S xx ffVCL, VCL] with [j.H xx S.Dive]
  2. Both normal- and superjump-cancel IAD's can work (except against Sol, May and I-No), but each has a different effect on height-control later in the combo.  The regular jc. version recovers faster after the ffVCL, which lets you juggle them higher-up with the VCL after the ffVCL—this can help keep heavier characters higher, but would force you to add even more manual delay against lightweights.  The sjc. version recovers later and only just gives you enough time to link a VCL after the ffVCL—this is good for consistency against the lighter characters, as you can just rely on the game's 3-frame input buffer for the VCL link timing without worrying whether you let them fall long enough.  Also, if you're too late with the c.S on the jc. version, chances are most characters will air-tech, whereas, if you're too late with the c.S on the sj. version, those same characters will get knocked down (and your c.S would OTG)
  3. You can mix in Hasegawa's favourite corner BnB piece here by replacing VCL with HCL for an extra point or two of damage against non-lightweight, wide-jugglebox characters; however, because HCL doesn't move forward like VCL does, you'd have to have started the combo closer to the corner
  4. The Nico video skips the [VCL, c.S] on Venom, Bedman and Potemkin, which seems reasonable
  5. I find it very useful to delay the j.H xx P.Dive cancel (i.e. late-cancelling, and not charging the P.Dive at all) in a lot of cases; it's the only way link it against Zato, and Axl, and helps tremendously with adjusting Venom, Millia's and Elphelt's juggle-height.  At the moment, I'm doing almost no charging of P.Dive against anyone, and am just switching between immediate and late-cancelling into it instead
  6. Because of Potemkin, Bedman and Leo's weight, it is very hard-to-impossible to link 2S, but because of their wide-juggleboxes you can link a c.S there instead for even more damage :)
  7. If you suspect that you're juggling a light character like Elphelt or Millia too high by point 7 in the combo, I recommend just cancelling into HCL~D and going for a Note YRC setup instead (EDIT: or just skipping the note and whiffing a j.H to airthrow in their tiny tech-window)
  8. From my limited experimentation, this corner note setup from this is sick.  You're far enough away to avoid a blitz shield's hitbox, and the note builds enough hits to re-meaty them after their BS invulnerability wears off. (That might vary depending on characters' wake-up speed?) You have enough time to land and go high again relatively safely—say, if you wanted to dash block or j.D FDC block reversal's and bursts.  You can just wait to confirm what they do and still have time to safejump after the note wears off.  You even seem to be able to loop back into it off of most successful mix-ups, especially if you account for bullet #1

Overall, I'd say this is a very advanced combo due to the nuance of height-control and adding character-specific delay, but it's definitely worth learning.  In casuals this week, I was already starting to convert a lot of my corner abare into it—AA's, j.D's, VCL YRC's, etc.—and getting better damage+oki results.

 

Could it be that you're adding some hits before the first c.S? That may allow the opponent to tech between the 2nd VCL and c.S. If you're not doing extra hits before the first c.S, then the only other thing I can think of is maybe your 2nd VCL is too slow.

 

To be honest, adding even one hit before the first c.S makes the VCL c.S link too difficult for my tastes. I'll only attempt the link if I know for sure that I started from either 2K, c.S, or 6P. If I started from something like hover dash j.S > c.S, then I'll choose a different combo route like FFVCL VCL 5P c.S sjc ... or FFVCL j.S j.H P-dive. That's just my personal preference though.

I'm betting this was Snowking's issue.  More-or-less, I categorize all my confirms into "one-hit" or "multi-hit", depending on how many hits there were before the 6P.  His would be a one-hit-opener combo, as any further hits before the 6P would not leave enough un-tech after the VCL link to link a c.S.  If he wanted to open with a dash in, confirm off a landed note, or chain from a 2K and still keep the c.S, his options would be to do a non-IAD combo, link a 5P-c.S sjc instead, or go straight into j.S-H xx P.Dive instead of VCL'ing, which might all involve using different enders.

Frankly, being able to confirm both ways pretty important, IMO, since there are a lot of ranges (depending on push-back and character-hurtbox-specifics) that can prevent the 6P, 5H or IAD j.K from comboing.  We all want to be able to convert optimally off of non-point-blank j.S's and j.H's, right?  Directly link into those 6P's on landing when you can spare the low/jc-able c.S, I say.

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I played with the HCL based enders some today too since I stayed home from work sick.  You still get 3-hit note oki since you'll use the ground version and they'll wake up into it after it's traveled a bit.  You're closer which gives you more control of your height as you approach than with Pdive knockdown since you don't have to hover dash as far, or drop and start one up again.

 

You get in the neighborhood of 10 more points of damage this way than with pretty much the same combo ending in Pdive.  If you wanted to use an airdash pressure string for oki to keep your pressure fresh or to approach from further away to bait some supers, you'd be better off using Pdive knockdown, so there's still a reason to use it.  The damage increase is pretty nice though and the oki is pretty good.

 

I just thought of something that I really don't want to do, but do you guys think we would benefit from having damage values on the wiki for combos starting at 50% remaining health, to factor how much damage they do when guts starts to kick in?  It might be nice to have a visual for that, but before I get started I'd want to finish all the other stuff I'm working on.

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@Microwallets and @Essay holy shit thank you both soooooo much it was exactly that.

I thought i was going crazy cuz id get the combo pretty consistently when doing my "empty jump low variation" cuz i would only do 2k > 6p but when i was doing my "high variation" i would do j.K / j.S / j.H > 2K / c.S > 6P and then i would drop it and i was getting pretty annoyed lol.

Thanks for the clarification, ill now do the j.H S dive route if i had more than 1 hit pre-6p and the IAD route if i only do 1 hit pre-6p.

Im guessing i can try to confirm with 1 hit starter > 6P > 5H > confirm the hit and go for IAD route OR confirm the block and jc the 5h or STBT to keep preassure going... what do you guys think?

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@Microwallets and @Essay holy shit thank you both soooooo much it was exactly that.

I thought i was going crazy cuz id get the combo pretty consistently when doing my "empty jump low variation" cuz i would only do 2k > 6p but when i was doing my "high variation" i would do j.K / j.S / j.H > 2K / c.S > 6P and then i would drop it and i was getting pretty annoyed lol.

Thanks for the clarification, ill now do the j.H S dive route if i had more than 1 hit pre-6p and the IAD route if i only do 1 hit pre-6p.

Honesty, I'd say do the IAD route whenever you can in the corner.  Just drop the link VCL > c.S in almost every case* of multi-hit starters and go straight into j.S-H xx P.Dive.  For example, against some characters (Millia and Zato spring to mind) the regular jc IAD j.K tends to not reach if you have an opener that pushes you back further than a point-blank, corner-pushed j.K > 2K starter would.  In those cases, you might think to do the j.H xx S.Dive route, but a lot of the time it turns out that a sjc. j.K will reach those characters' juggleboxes in time not to drop (when the regular-jc. version wouldn't).

* Now, I said "almost every case" because you can actually still land [(2-ht opener)-6P-5H jc. j.K-S xx ffVCL, VCL, c.S] on several characters, despite what I said in the other post.  Turns out that the issue seems to lie in the first active-frame whiffing underneath lighter/skinnier characters' juggleboxes after the VCL because the regular-jc'd IAD variation juggles them higher with the second VCL.  Either doing the sj. IAD instead (which I'd recommend) or delaying the VCL link (very hard to get right—don't rely on this) can work to squeeze in that extra hit.

Anyway, by end game, I'd hope to only go for a non-IAD route in cases where a stray note added a bunch of hits to my confirm.  Or, as well, when I'm feeling [(2-hit opener)-6P-5H jc tk.H.Dive, VCL, c.S...] to convert on characters like Ky at low life, when their guts rating makes tk.H.Dive combos' damage equivalent to the IAD routes.)

Im guessing i can try to confirm with 1 hit starter > 6P > 5H > confirm the hit and go for IAD route OR confirm the block and jc the 5h or STBT to keep preassure going... what do you guys think?

That's part of the picture, but it's really going to depend on your opponent.  If you have the time, I'd train against random block to work on hit-confirming [1-hit]-6P on its own.  That way, if you're not feeling the options off of 5H, you could cancel into 2H (deceptively fast recovery on whiff, or more frame-advantage on block), pepper them with a 2D, take a chance dash-cancelling out of 6P at frame disadvantage, or cancel into a special earlier than they probably expect.

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Super new to this game, though I've played it a little before. Trying to pick up I-No, but having trouble finding combos that work pretty consistently on the whole cast. Does I-No have to rely mostly on character specific combos, or is there a semi consistent bnb for like, a VCL YRC combo, or a j.D combo? All I've got really consistent so far is 2K > 6P > 5H > IAD > j.K > j.S > VCL > j.S > j.H > HCL > followup, which I'm pretty sure works on the whole cast, except I gotta super jump for Sol, May, and Faust.

 

Can anyone help me understand how this characters combos work, kinda generally?

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I-No's combos have always depended on the weight and the hurtbox of the characters she fights against and Xrd is no exception. The common combo with the IAD in the corner which is 6P>5HS>IAD>j.K>j.S>FFVCL>j.S>j.HS>P Dive>j.HS>P Dive works with all the cast, but then depending on the character you fight you can change your combos for more damage and/or better knockdown, Slayer's hurtbox for example is quite big, and that works very well for I-No because she can get a knockdown with a double P Dive in some combos with damage over 200+ that wouldn't work with most of the other cast, while Venom on the hand has a really small hurtbox and you'll have to SJ most of the time to just link j.HS with P Dive against him.

Also, you don't need to SJ against Faust anymore in 1.1.

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Hey, I'm new to GG and trying to pick up I-No and I just have a stupid question regarding notation. I am familiar with the basic notation but I am having a hard time knowing what some of the prefixes mean. I know CO or SO mean crouching and standing opponent, but what do things like MI, FA, PO etc mean?

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5 hours ago, Rekarm said:

Hey, I'm new to GG and trying to pick up I-No and I just have a stupid question regarding notation. I am familiar with the basic notation but I am having a hard time knowing what some of the prefixes mean. I know CO or SO mean crouching and standing opponent, but what do things like MI, FA, PO etc mean?

Those are character initials to note for whom the combo works on or just which character the combo was tested on

SO - Sol

MI - Millia

FA - Faust

PO -Potemkin

et cetera

 

example:

(SO: 115) - combo works on Sol and does 115 damage on him at full life

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Okay I figured as much but just wanted to be sure, thanks. So refreshing to play a FG that doesnt baby players like SF4/5 or MK10 . This is by far the best FG I have played in a long time, even though I still suck

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On 28/07/2015 at 11:03 PM, Essay said:

Been playing around with the 2S xx HCL, 214P corner juggle ender that got some stream-time at Evo, but obviously not enough, as I didn't realize it was this close to universal:

 

Check out this Nico vid demonstrating it being performed on the entire cast, with only minor adjustments for the heavy characters.

 

Perhaps Mynus or one of our other cunning linguists could confirm whether there's any extra vital information in the text at the beginning and end?

I didn't know someone posted this video here. People on Discord were asking about the HCL knockdown ender so I thought I'd do a translation of this video and post it on DL. So here it is, one year later lol. I hope the formatting isn't screwed up...

---------------------------------------------------------

===================
HCL knockdown ender
===================
Original video: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm26779089. This video was made last year so Revelator characters aren't covered.

Mid weight:      ~6P 5HS normal/super jc IAD j.K j.S FFVCL VCL cl.S jc j.S j.HS P-Dive 66 j.HS FFVCL 2S HCL
Light weight:    ~6P 5HS normal/super jc IAD j.K j.S delay FFVCL delay VCL delay cl.S jc j.S j.HS charged P-Dive 66 j.HS delay FFVCL 2S HCL
Heavy weight:    ~6P 5HS normal jc IAD j.K j.S FFVCL j.S j.HS charged P-Dive 66 j.HS FFVCL cl.S HCL

At first this seems like a lot to memorize but think of it this way: there are only 3 main routes, 1 route per weight class. The routes for light- and mid-weight characters are essentially the same, you just need to delay the VCLs and charge the P-Dives longer against light characters so they fall lower. 


Sol           Mid 
Ky            Mid 
May           Light
Millia        Light
Zato          Heavy, modified: finish with 2S HCL instead of cl.S HCL
Potemkin      Heavy 
Chipp         Mid 
Faust         Mid 
Venom         Heavy, modified: finish with 2S HCL instead of cl.S HCL
              (Venom wakes up fast; do ground note ASAP)
Axl           Mid, modified: P-Dive must be charged
Slayer        Mid
I-No          Light
Bedman        Heavy
Ramlethal     Light, modified: each VCL must be delayed as much as possible. Very difficult
Sin           Mid
              (Sin wakes up slowly so delay your ground note)
Elphelt       Light, modified: each VCL must be delayed as much as possible. Very difficult
Leo           Mid, modified: P-Dive must be charged, finish with cl.S HCL instead of 2S HCL

Some notes:
- The route for a character may not correspond to their actual weight class (example: Leo is a heavy weight character but we use the mid weight route for him)
- Light characters: Use a normal jump IAD on Ramlethal and Elphelt. Use a super jump IAD on May and I-No. Normal and super jump IAD both work on Millia, normal jump IAD feels easier.
- Mid characters: Both uncharged and charged P-Dive work. Charging P-Dive feels easier. Normal jump IAD feels easier on some characters?
- Heavy characters: Always use a normal jump IAD.


=======
Summary (might be easier to remember everything when it's organized this way)
=======

FFVCL -> ground VCL route
Light:                                     MA MI IN
Mid:                                       SO KY CH FA SL SI
Mid + charged P-Dive:                      AX
Mid + charged P-Dive + cl.S HCL ender:     LE

FFVCL -> j.S route
Heavy:                                     PO BE
Heavy + 2S HCL ender:                      ZA VE

Difficult to hit, HCL knockdown not recommended                           
Light + delayed VCLs + charged P-Dive:     RA EL


---------------------------------------------------------

Someone asked about the difficulty of the HCL knockdown on each character. My opinion, from easiest to hardest: Mids > PO+BE > ZA > VE > MI > MA+IN > RA+EL

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