[Xrd] Venom Combo Thread - 1.1 Update Pending

[Kinslayer15]

Another thing I wanted to discuss was the IAD bnb combo. So it seems to me it isn't an IAD at all. Some characters if you IAD they pop out the combo before the 6h. I remedy this by delaying (slightly) then air dashing and it seems more consistent that way. Has anyone else noticed this?

Given how slow and generally reactable Venom's dust is (especially with the new red flash), I find it the opposite - if I use it less, people will be less inclined to see it coming and get hit by it. If people expect dust more, they'll be reacting to it, not anticipating it.

Also man I wasn't saying go nuts and spam it or something I was saying just use it in a pressure string or against someone blocking low a lot. It doesn't take for you to use a move more than once for them to acknowledge it as an option.

Stuff like this is why we need ID combos back though.lol

[Justice7541]

I'm pretty sure the IAD combo's been the subject of discussion for a while now. Here's a summary of all the stuff I've got on how to make it easier/more consistent:

- Off c.S launcher, it isn't actually an IAD. You need to jump slightly higher than an IAD or some part of the combo will fail on some characters, Sol included. You can do 9(delay)66, 866, sj966, etc. if just doing instant 966 doesn't work.

- For throw combo (throw dash 2H SCarcass IAD j.SHD etc.) or SQV combo (crouch c.S(2) SQV 5P IAD j.SHD etc.) the opponent will be much lower so instant IAD is mandatory. You won't have an issue with normals whiffing in this case but j.D may fail to come out. I was having this problem at first and I realized it was because I wasn't doing j.S > j.H fast enough.

- For Pot, IAD combos in general are iffy because he's so heavy. Bedman also has some issues with the throw combo which is extremely tight on him. Alternate combos for them are:

On Pot: c.S(3) SCarcass 669 j.KSHD 669 j.KSHD 6H

On Pot/Bedman: Throw > (no dash) 2H(1) SCarcass 966 j.SHD 6H

- Not really related to IAD combo but SQV > 5P doesn't combo into anything except 6H on Pot/Bedman because they're so fat. Fortunately c.S(3) hits them even on crouch so just go for the standing combo midscreen. In corner you can do KQV 5K 6P 6H PQV 5P 6H instead of SQV loop.

[DaiAndOh]

So last night I tested this combo in more depth, this is what I found:

 

Ground Throw > (slight dash) 2HS(2) > Carcass Raid S > 66 j.KSHSD |> 6HS
 
Works on the whole cast midscreen actually.

 

Notes:

 

Timing is tighter on MI, CH, MA, ZA, VE, LE.

 

VERY hard (but not impossible!) to do on KY, likely not worth it.

[TittyFOFO]

That last bit isn't quite true I think. It's just a matter of spacing. You need to be far enough away after SQV hits that 5P will still connect, but the ball won't hit at the same time. I've definitely done IAD stuff afterwards though.

That was directed at Justice. Being on my phone is so slow lol.

[Justice7541]

So last night I tested this combo in more depth, this is what I found:

Ground Throw > (slight dash) 2HS(2) > Carcass Raid S > 66 j.KSHSD |> 6HS

Works on the whole cast midscreen actually.

Notes:

Timing is tighter on MI, CH, MA, ZA, VE, LE.

VERY hard (but not impossible!) to do on KY, likely not worth it.

Good to learn that one for near-corner combo anyway, and you don't have to worry about it being super tight on anyone since you'll be in pretty close.

Also @ TittyFOFO I think SQV 5P IAD is possible on Pot/Bedman midscreen (it's impossible in corner in most cases as far as I can tell) but the required spacing is a lot tighter. Honestly I don't see any reason to go for this since c.S(3) combos are so easy to get on those two.

[TittyFOFO]

Ah, my bad. Didn't know you meant in the corner specifically. I'm probably not going to be doing the SQV IAD combos at midscreen often, if ever. Too much work for my tastes.

[Justice7541]

Ah, my bad. Didn't know you meant in the corner specifically. I'm probably not going to be doing the SQV IAD combos at midscreen often, if ever. Too much work for my tastes.

Well I did mean everywhere. It does work midscreen I think but it's a lot harder. Not sure how the damage stacks up either. I usually just do c.S(3) combos on those two characters.

[TittyFOFO]

So, I started looking for follow ups to 2S, HS Stinger RRC since its one of our better poke options when there's a little space.

Midscreen:

Dash in, 1 hit 2D xx S Carcass, quick dash 1 hit 5Sc, JC, j.KSHD, land, 6HS xx ball summon (150 damage on Ky)

This is pretty character specific. Girls don't seem to like it, or the fatties. Fortunately, you can just do 3 hit 5Sc on the fat guys. Also doesn't work on Venom and Zato, cuz they're gay.

Corner:

Dash in, 5D, dash jump j.SHD, land, 1 hit 5Sc xx S Carcass, dash in 1 hit 5Sc, 5HS xx QV (173 damage on Ky)

Most of the other characters can be hit with SQV IAD combos if you got it like that.

Any ideas? It'd be nice to have semi-universal combos that do decent damage and give knockdown, if you guys can think of anything. If it works on standing AND crouching characters, even better.

[Reki]

Would anyone please share their corner standing combos vs ram and ky?

I can't get more than 1 air gatling loop against ram because floaty as fuck so damage is only around 130 using a c.S(3)

As for ky, 200 damage is really easy with no delays needed on the inputs but only if the starter I used is c.S(3). Once I use different starters with more than 1 hit like airdash KS or SH (with or without balls) or mud struggle, ky gains so much weight 6H otgs them.

[Justice7541]

Would anyone please share their corner standing combos vs ram and ky?

I can't get more than 1 air gatling loop against ram because floaty as fuck so damage is only around 130 using a c.S(3)

As for ky, 200 damage is really easy with no delays needed on the inputs but only if the starter I used is c.S(3). Once I use different starters with more than 1 hit like airdash KS or SH (with or without balls) or mud struggle, ky gains so much weight 6H otgs them.

I do c.S(3) IAD j.SHD 6H SQV 5P 6H QV > whatever oki. That's pretty much universal on everyone except Pot and Bedman actually, if you're having problems with any combos on anyone.

[Eshi]

There are lots of different potential combos after midscreen throw and some are much easier to execute on certain characters than others. It's definitely worth it to go through each character and make note of which combo is most reliable for oneself. As for having to delay the IAD, are you practicing your combos on Sol? He has a very high juggle hurtbox so the air dash timing is different on him compared to every other character.

[Kinslayer15]

There are lots of different potential combos after midscreen throw and some are much easier to execute on certain characters than others. It's definitely worth it to go through each character and make note of which combo is most reliable for oneself. As for having to delay the IAD, are you practicing your combos on Sol? He has a very high juggle hurtbox so the air dash timing is different on him compared to every other character.

I absolutely agree with this and would like to expand on it a bit. You should certainty go and learn your best combos on everyone for max damage and you should also learn the ones that a good vs people who like to burst. Sanma and fino like to do (off a throw) 5p>5p> 6hs> ball set oki

[Eshi]

I'm doing some experimenting with corner throw combo, optimized for damage + oki + practicality. Here's what I've got:

 

Throw > 5H > K QV > 5K > 6P > 6H (Millia, Faust, Potemkin, Slayer, Axl, Bedman) [iAD doesn't work or very hard]

 

Throw > 5H > S QV > 5P > IAD jSHD > dash jKSHD > 6H (Leo, Venom, Eddie)

 

Throw > 5H > S QV > 5P > IAD jSHD > dash jKSHD > 6H > any QV (Chipp, May, Ky, Sol, Sin)

 

Throw > 5H > S QV > 5P > IAD jSHD > 6H > S QV > 6P > 6H (Elphelt, I-No, Ramlethal) [highest damage]

[Reki]

I've been busy producing a cheat sheet of sorts. It's for old people like me that can't even remember the distinct BnBs for every matchup.

 

It's a list of no meter combos for every matchup and the delays required. Midscreen stuff emphasize wall carry and corner stuff I try to optimize for damage. If the description just says 'works', then it usually means that you can use any good starter and even stuff around 2-3 hits before the chosen starter.

 

Will develop this list on a daily basis. It looks like a clusterfuck but I plan to add colored fonts to make it easier to read.

 

----------------------------------------------------------

 

midscreen
#1 c.S(3) iad j.SHD l> 6H
#2 c.S(3) iad j.SHD l> dashjump j.KSHD l> 6H
#3

midscreen crouched
#1 c.S(1) 5H *qv
#2 shallow P-qv 5P bh 6H
#3 shallow K-qv 5K 6P bh 6H
#4 deep S-qv 5P bh iad j.SHD l> j.KSHD l> 6H

corner
#1
#2 airdash j.SD l> 6H K-qv 6P bh 6H
#3 c.S(3) iad j.SHD l> 6H S-qv 6P bh 6H
#4 airdash j.SD l> 6H S-qv 5P bh iad j.SHD l> 6H
#5 airdash j.SD l> 6H S-qv 5P bh iad j.SHD l> 6H S-qv 6P bh 6H
#6 2D(1) dash c.S(1) j.KSHD l> 6H

corner crouched
#1
#2
#3 S-qv 5P bh iad j.SHD l> 6H S-qv 6P bh 6H

throw
#1 shortdash 2H(2) S-carcass iad j.SHD l> 6H
#2 shortdash 2H(2) S-carcass iad j.SHD l> j.KSHD l> 6H

cornerthrow
#1
#2 6H S-qv 5P bh iad j.SHD l> 6H
#3 6H S-qv 5P bh iad j.SHD l> dashjump j.KSHD l> 6H

vs Leo
midscreen#2 works (delay 1st set S-H, 2nd set S-H)
corner#3/5/6 works
throw#2 works (delay 2nd set S-H)
corn-throw#3 works + qv ender (delay 2nd set S-H)

vs Sin
midscreen#2 works but ass-numbing hard (delay 1st set S-iad & S-H-D, 2nd set K-S-H-D)
NOTE: adding 1-3 hits before c.S(3) makes it easier (if +2 hits: delay 1st set S-iad & S-H, 2nd set S-H)
mid-crouch#1 works
NOTE: c.S(3) even by itself is prone to hit only once on sin's fucking tiny head if you did not get a deep hit
corner#3 works (delay 1st set S-iad & S-H-D)
corner#5 works
corner#6 works (delay c.S-j.K, H-D)
corn-crouch#3 works for all starters except mads
NOTE: 5P timing becomes tight if you added 3 hits before c.S(1)
NOTE: if you used mads then stop the combo @ 6H
throw#2 works (delay 1st set S-H, 2nd set S-H)
corn-throw#3 works + qv ender (delay 2nd set S-H)

vs Sol
midscreen#2 works but ovaries-dropping hard (delay 1st set S-iad & S-H-D, 2nd set S-H-D)
NOTE1: adding 1-3 hits before c.S(3) makes it easier (if +2 hits: delay 1st set S-iad & S-H-D, 2nd set S-H)
NOTE2: an easier version is c.S(3) P-qv 5P iad... (delay 2nd set S-H) also get a forward momentum if you're using air starters like j.S, j.H and mads or opp will tech before bh
mid-crouch#4 using starters: 2K > c.S(2) / mads > c.S(1) / airdash j.KS or j.SH > c.S(1)
mid-crouch#3 using starters: j.S or j.H > c.S(2)
corner#3 works (delay 1st set S-iad & S-H)
corner#5 works
corner#6 works (delay c.S-j.K, H-D)
corn-crouch#3 using starters: 2K > c.S(2) / mads > c.S(1) / airdash j.KS or j.SH > c.S(1)
throw#2 works (delay 1st set S-H, 2nd set S-H)
corn-throw#3 works + qv ender (delay 2nd set S-H)

vs Ram
midscreen#1 works (delay S-H)
mid-crouch#1 works
corner#3 works (delay 1st set S-H-D)
corner#2 works
throw#2 works (delay 1st set S-H, 2nd set S-H)
corn-throw#

vs zat
midscreen#2 can only work if 1+ hits are added before c.S(3) (if +1 hit: delay 1st set S-H-D, 2nd set S-H)
mid-crouch#1 works

throw#2 works (delay 1st set S-H, 2nd set S-H)

[SnowMonkeyFunky]

Time for another write up!

So I got pretty sick of the variable timings and constant drops on jump canceled clS combos (cough Sol cough) and decided to test how super jumping instead affects timing. From what I can tell, it makes comboing from a full clS a LOT more consistent across the board, and eliminates a lot of the character specific timing. I managed to generalize the cast into 2-3 groups for how to juggle them. Here's what I found, using the following combo for reference. My reason for this starter in particular is that empty jump 2K is the most common way to land a full clS, though this applies anywhere all three hits of clS can connect.

2K clS [3] sjc (28) 66 jS jH jD 6H (Corner extension: xx S QV 6P BH 6H xx ball set oki)

Overall the timing for the sjc and the air dash seems pretty universal, as opposed to normal jump timings (IE get a feel for every nuance of each weight class)

The air chain is staggered, and has different delay quirks depending on character.

~ indicates slight delay

> indicates immideate chain

Slight delay all hits (jS ~ jH ~ jD): Sin, Faust, Millia, Sol, May, Potemkin*, Slayer, I-No, Axl, Ramlethal, Venom, Leo*, Zato, Bedman**

Slight delay for first two hits only (jS ~ jH > jD): Ky, Chipp

Why these two?:

-Ky is in his own awkward weight class where delaying the jD will otg when doing a super jump. Regular jump is an option, but I found it more consistent to do the superjump and just not delay the jD.

-Chipp has a really narrow vertical hurtbox when being juggled, so doing the usual delay into S QV 6P BH will make the ball go over him and whiff completely. Immediately chainging the jD pops him up a bit higher, allowing for the corner followup to be possible, although this makes timing the 6H a bit more strict compared to other characters.

*Normal jump out of clS instead of superjump. Also, can do dash jK jS jH jD between the first air chan and 6H for extra corner carry. If already in the corner, skip that part because it causes heavier damage scaling and in turn makes the entire combo do less damage. Works on crouch confirms because these fat guys get hit by the the whole clS when ducking.

**Same as above, but he CAN NOT be hit by the cornered S QV 6P BH. The ball will soar over him, like with Chipp given full delay. Can't find a way to compensate. Alternative from cornered 6H is P QV 5P BH 6H.

So there you have it, instead of worrying about half a dozen different timings and inputs for clS stuff, there's 3 general classes; the big guys that get hit by clS no matter what, Ky and Chipp, and everyone else.

Note that everything above is based off of my own knowledge, experience, and feel for the game. If you know of more damaging extensions feel free to share but I wanted to make a very generalized guide for this situation. Also, if you feel that you get better results with different timings than what's listed above, by all means go for it. I'm not gonna stop you if you're more comfortable with something like regular jump on Ky or not delaying the air chain for anyone.

I also might toss together a potato quality video just so everyone can hear my inputs and understand the kind of delay I'm going for. That's for another night though.

[Justice7541]

Some stuff for throws I get sometimes and have no idea how to combo off of.  Venom's throw is really way too good.

 

High airthrow > forward jump (back jump in corner, neutral near corner) airdash j.SHD 6H (in corner, add SQV 6P 6H) = 100 damage with corner extension

Low airthrow, near corner throw, or Pot/Bedman throw > 2H(1) SCarcass dash jump j.KSHD 6H (in corner, add SQV 6P 6H) = about the same damage

[indie_animator]

Thanks for all the info here.  I've read a lot of info in the Venom section, including this topic, and wrote down a handful of combos.  I'm wondering if Overdrives can or be comboed into or used raw?  Or just not used for keeping meter for other things? Thanks.

[Justice7541]

You can do j.H > Red Hail but it's usually not worth it unless it would end the round.

[indie_animator]

You can do j.H > Red Hail but it's usually not worth it unless it would end the round.

OK, thanks.  Still figuring out mains/subs & getting all this info helps.

[Reki]

oh wow can anyone explain how this is happening?

 

vs Faust (corner)

 

2K c.S(1) 5H S-qv 6P bh 6H --- 95 damage

2K c.S(1) 5H K-qv 6P bh 6H --- 95 damage

 

airdash j.SH l> c.S(1) 5H S-qv 6P bh 6H --- 170 damage

airdash j.SH l> c.S(1) 5H K-qv 6P bh 6H --- 185 damage

[TittyFOFO]

Is the 6P hitting before the ball in both cases? That could be the cause.

[Pomparomp]

Thanks for all the info here.  I've read a lot of info in the Venom section, including this topic, and wrote down a handful of combos.  I'm wondering if Overdrives can or be comboed into or used raw?  Or just not used for keeping meter for other things? Thanks.

 

Dark Angel got nerfed to hell, Red Hail doesn't lead to hard knockdown, and nobody knows if there's any good use for Bishop's Runout yet. I'd just use all your meter on roman cancels.

[Justice7541]

Bishop Runout actually has like no hitstun, I'm not quite sure what the point of this move really is other than gimmick pressure. I was trying to do some throw > Runout stuff and while I was able to get like 120 damage off a corner throw wiht it, it doesn't really help with the combo itself. In fact it makes combos harder cause it interrupts the longer hitstun from some moves with shitty short hitstun from the ball.

[Moroha]

Bishop is a pressure super. I'm sure at some point a CV will come out with Bishop hilarity, but if you have someone in the corner, you can do a two set into activate. Something like...

 

(Corner, standing) 2K c.S 3hit IAD j.S j.HS j.D land 6H HS.QV P.Set xx Bishop. From there you can Raid the Bishop ball and react accordingly, keeping them pinned down at the end of your strings while hitting the ball. 

 

It's honestly a better super than Dark Angel, but harder to use properly. Angel is honestly his worst Super - it doesn't crank up that Gauge. If you're popping an Angel it's usually because you really need the thinking time / breathing room or have them down to mere pixels. Red Hail should mainly be used in situations to close out a round, which it does well enough. 

 

In terms of raw practicality it's not the highest ability Venom has on the totem pole - his YRC and Blitz use is far too valuable, but it's Guilty Gear, and as with every character, the more tools and options you have at your comfortable disposal, the better chances you have of taking the round. Getting a knockdown with 50% tension against someone and popping Bishop if you're comfortable with its use can absolutely seal the round. Will take some time to get used to!

[Epic]

Blacksnake used it a few times on stream last week with success to some extent. I know that most of it was opponent's lack of knowledge about how to counter it, but it sure looked useful in a corner situation.