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[Xrd] Axl Combo Science Thread

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Here's where we write combos out and try to optimize. I'll have more for this sticky soon.

 

Important things about a combo:
 

What it starts with: In a match, I don't give a fuck about combos until I've hit with a move. What move leads to what combo matters

 

When you can do it: Does it only work if the hit is anti-air? Say so. Does it only work on counterhit? Only in the corner? Say so. Shit's important

How much damage it does: From this information, we can optimize

 

What does it set up?: Does your combo get you knockdown? Frame advantage? A tech trap? Is it burst-safe? This stuff is strategically important, moreso even than doing more damage.

 

Also, I hate how non-standard combo notation is, so I'm going to repost this from the +R thread (I'll change some specific examples when I have more time):

NOTATION USED BY ME: (Assume anything I don't mention is whatever's standard on DL)

- denotes a cancel from one move to another. Gatling, special cancel, jump cancel, whatever. For example, 2H-2D-Rensen is all cancels.

, denotes a link. For example, 5H-6H, 2S implies a gatling from H to 6H, then a link to 2S.

RCs, FDCs, YRCs, etc are not noted like cancels, just note them in parens. For example, 63214S (YRC), j.H should be listed like a link, because you're not cancelling the YRC into anything.

... denotes a delay. For example, 2D-Rensen (FRC) ... 5P implies a delay between the rensen FRC and the 5P

In air gatlings, I use lack of spaces to denote air normal gatlings and dashes to denote other kinds of cancels, including landing and using ground normals. Only write j. once, and write it again if you mean jump again. For example, the combo c.S-H-Rensen (RC), 66 c.S-JI-2S-sj.KPK-j.HD-Bomber has one superjump and one doublejump in it.

I often write names of specials for visual and conceptual clarity. If you're playing this character, you should know roughly what your specials are called anyway

If you can, please make note of what characters a combo works on (Or, if it's a fairly universal combo, characters it does not work on) For example, (From midscreen) throw, 6K-2S-j.K-j.HD-Bomber (Works on Potemkin and Faust)

Please list superjumps separately from normal jumps For example, the combo (in the corner) Throw, j.PD-Bomber works on a lot of characters. The combo Throw, sj.PD-Bomber doesn't work on most characters.

The abbreviation for Hard slash in combos is H. If you write "HS", it's confusing and I will hunt you down.

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Just gonna dump this here: if you jam yourself all the way in the corner and do 5K-2D-rensen hold up you can then link 5P with somewhat tight but not too tight timing. tested it on sol, ky, millia, and pot, no idea about everyone else. The fact that you can meterless that way is interesting to look at and the combo itself is useful if you land a 6h rc. maybe something else can link it better?

 

also you can RC rashousen both before and after the explosion. if you do it before they're on the ground all tied up, and afterwards you get a juggle.

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Quick question before I find time to put down stuff i've seen and tried...

Would people prefer the english or japanese names for specials, or just the notation for the specials?

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For TK Bomber stuff I've been using:

 

Throw, 66-[5K-S-TK Bomber] x 2/3

5K-S-2D-Rensen (RC), 66 6P-5S-TK Bomber, 5K-S-TK Bomber

 

 

Hopefully there is some better stuff. I haven't watched any Axl matches yet.

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Here's a couple i thought were cool :V, tested mostly on Slayer.

 

2h(1hit) rc iad j.hd land 5k-5p-6k-2s sj j.hd-Axl Bomber ~149 on Slayer

 

j.s6p.5p Shark Strike 5k-c.S-5h-Sickle Flash- Melody Chain ~133 on Slayer

 

(Close to corner) CH 6h, 6k-2s TK Axl Bomber land 5p-6k-2s sj jhd-Axl Bomber ~176 on slayer, this seems to work from slightly less from half screen.

 

Anti Air CH Melody Chain-66-5p-6k-2k-sj j.hd-Axl Bomber ~173 on Slayer

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Grabbed this one from gnu's stream (Corner) Throw, cl.s TK Bomber, 5k cl.s TK Bomber, 5k 5p 6k 2s TK Bomber, delay J back air throw option select for forward techs

There's also 5k cl.s 5h [4]6.s 8 delay 6k will catch techs, jump cancel air back throw to catch any techs after.

 

I was playing earlier today and managed to get use out of (anti-air) 6p/6k 2s j.h j.d Bomber (RC), 6k 2s j.h j.d Bomber

You have to run a bit for the 6k 2s after RC, and you can delay the RC or do it high up depending on how much time you want.

 

One other really cheesy setup I found was to catch people teching low to the ground from bomber loop, (Corner) Throw 66 5k cl.s 2s TK Bomber, delay 5k cl.s 2s [4]6.h

Delay the 5k so they are as low to the ground as possible, and do both hits of the last 2s.

 

For those wondering about the stream: http://www.twitch.tv/gnu0929, he's a solid japanese player, I've picked up some good stuff from him outside of combos.

 

Edit: Optimal (Ground CH) 6h walk forward 2s j.s (2 hits) j.h Bomber 5p 6k 2s, TK Bomber for knockdown or sj.h sj.d Bomber for damage I know it works on Sol, the j.s connects weirdly on some chars I think. Credits to Horokei's stream

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So in order to avoid confusion, here's a translation list for some words you might see thrown around in this thread.
ENG                                 JP                     Input
Sickle Flash                     Rensen Geki     [4]6S
Melody Chain                  Kyokusa Geki   Rensen .-> 8 or 9

Spinning Chain Strike      Sensa Geki       Rensen ->  2 or 3
Artemix Hunter                Benten Gari      623S
Thunder Shadow Chain  Raiei Sageki     63214S

Spindle Spinner               Rashousen       [4]6H

Sparrowhawk Stance      Haitaka            63214H
Shark Strike                     Kairagi Yakou  214214S

 
I'm hoping that we all use a generalized format. It'd be easier for if we used the old names for moves. (i.e Rensen,Raiei,Benten,etc)
They're shorter and much simpler to remember. They're also really helpful if you wanna dabble with Axl in Xrd and his previous versions.

Edited by Baf0

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Sparrowhawk Stance      Stance 鷂          63214H

Shark Strike                     Kyakusei          214214S

Sparrowhawk Stance - Haitaka no Kamae

Shark Strike - Kairagi Yakou

 

I posted video with basic combos by BLE in a video thread.

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Work in progress. I'll be adding combos, + video references soon enough. All the combos work in 1.1 Xrd. Tested on Sol only.

Mid-screen:

Collapsed: Mid Starters:

5K Starters

Meterless

5K-c.S-5H-2D-Rensen (dmg 131)

Max range 5K 5K-2D-Rensen (dmg 85)

Close range 5K 5K-2D-Rensen (dmg 127)

AA 5K 5K-c.S-2S-sj-j.H-j.D- Axl Bomber (dmg 152)

AA 5K 5K-c.S-2S-TK Bomber, 5P-Rensen (dmg 152) knockdown example

 

50% Meter

5K-c.S-5H-2D-Rensen-8 (RC), 66, c.S-2S-sj-j.H-j.D-Axl Bomber (dmg 188) Damage combo, no KD.

5K-c.S-5H-2D-Rensen-8(RC), 66,  5K-c.S-2S-TK Bomber, 5P-Rensen (dmg 184) Far Knockdown

5P Starters

Meterless

AA 5P 5P-6K-2S-sj-j.H-j.D-Axl Bomber (dmg 166)

 

c,S Starters

Meterless

c.S-5H-2D-Rensen (dmg 131)

AA c.S c.S-2S-TK Bomber, 5P-6K-2S-TK Bomber (dmg 184)

50% Meter
c.S-5H-2D-Rensen-8 (RC), 66, c.S-2S-sj-j.H-j.D-Axl Bomber (dmg 200)
c.S-5H-2D-Rensen-8 (RC), Haitaka stance (P-K)x3 (dmg 197)

f.S Starters

 

5H Starters

 

2S Starters

Meterless

AA 2S 2S-jc-j.K-dj.H-dj.H (dmg 140)

 

6K Starters

Meterless

Standing 6K-c.S-5H-2D-Rensen (dmg 148)

AA 6K 6K-2S-jc-j.K-dj.H-dj.H (dmg 158)

AA 6K 6K-2S-TK Bomber, 5P-Rensen (dmg 155) Knockdown

Close AA 6K 6K-c.S-2S-TK Bomber, 5P-Rensen (dmg 167) knockdown

 

Rensen Starters

 

Rashousen Starters

 

Benten Gari Starters

 

 

Collapsed: low Starters:

2K Starters

Meterless

2K-c.S-5H-2D-Rensen (dmg 87)

Max range 2K 2K-2D-Rensen (dmg 55)

close range 2K 2K-2D-Rensen-2 (dmg 82)

 

2P Starters

CH 2P 2P-Rensen (dmg 70)

2H Starters

 

2D Starters

 

3P Starters

CH 3P 3P,5K-5P-6K-2S-TK Bomber, 5P-Rensen (dmg 166)

 

Collapsed: Overhead Starters:

5D Starters

Meterless

5D8-j.D-j.D-j.K-dj.H-dj-D-Axl Bomber (dmg 121)

5D8-j.D-j.D-j.6P-j.K-dj.H-dj-D-Axl Bomber (dmg 125)

6H Starters

 

Raiei Starters

 

 

Collapsed: Throw Starters:

Meterless

Throw, 6K-2S-sj-j.H-j.D-Axl bomber (dmg 131)

Throw, 66, 5P-6K-2S-TK Bomber, 5P-Rensen (dmg 118) Knockdown

 

 

Collapsed: Instant Kill Combos:

100%Meter

c.S-5H-2D-Rensen-Kyoukusa geki (RC), 66, Activate-IK

 

Corner:

Collapsed: Mid Starters:

5K Starters

Meterless

5K-c.S-2D-Rensen-2 (dmg 144)

 

5P Starters

 

c.S Starters

Meterless

c.S-5H-2D-Rensen-2 (dmg 169)

f.S Starters

 

5H Starters

 

2S Starters

 

6K Starters

 

Rensen Starters

 

Rashousen Starters

 

 

 

Collapsed: low Starters:

2K Starters

 

2P Starters

 

2H Starters

 

2D Starters

 

3P Starters

 

Collapsed: Overhead Starters:

5D Starters

 

6H Starters

 

Raiei Starters

 

 

Collapsed: Throw Starters:

 

 

Collapsed: Instant Kill Combos:

 

Edited by Baf0

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A poster in the Q&A thread asked for a transcription of ble axl's combo video.  I'd already been thinking of doing that for my own sake, so I went ahead and did it.  I am completely unfamiliar with the names of Axl's moves in any language, so I stuck to notation only.

 

Video link  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toOUmwdVVbM

 

Note: Every instance of OTG 2K does exactly 1 damage and is almost certainly not worth it, but I noted it down since that's what's going on in the video.

Edit Note 2: I also just realized I didn't note which jump cancels are high jump cancels.  Basically, most of the combos that go into j.HS D XX j.623HS are high jump cancels. 

 

Part 1, close S combos into RC/super:
 
[midscreen]
c.S 5HS 2D XX [4]6S~9 RC 63214HS~PKPKPK [197 damage]
c.S 5HS 2D XX [4]6S~9 RC dash c.S 2S(2) jc j.HS D XX j.623HS [200]
c.S 5HS 2D XX [4]6S~9 RC 63214S c.S 2S(2) jc j.HS D XX j.623D [196]
c.S 5HS 2D XX [4]6S~9 RC IAD late j.623HS, 5P 6K(2) 2S(2) jc j.HS D XX j.623HS [195]
 
c.S 5HS XX 214214S, dash 5P 6K(2) c.S 5HS XX [4]6S~9 [180]
c.S 5HS XX 214214S, throw, dash 5P 6K(2) 2S(2) jc j.HS D XX j.623HS [167]
 
c.S 5HS 2D XX 623S RC dash c.S 2S(2) jc j.623H, 5P 6K(2) 2S(2) jc j.HS D XX j.623HS [218]
 
c.S 5HS RC IAD j.HS D, c.S 5P 6K(2) 2S(2) jc j.HS D XX j.623HS [196]
 
c.S 5HS 2D XX 2363214HS [200]
 
[corner]
c.S 5HS 2D XX [4]6~9 RC dash (c.S 2S(2) jc j.623HS)x2 [206]
 
c.S 5HS 2D XX 214214S, dash 5P 6K(2) 2S(2) jc j.623HS, 5K 2S(2) jc j.623HS, OTG 2K [196]
 
c.S 5HS RC 5D, IAD j.S(1) HS D, c.S 5HS XX [4]6S~3 [199]
c.S 5HS RC 5D~6, c.S 6P c.S 5P 6K(2) 2S(2) jc j.623HS, 5K 2S(2) jc j.623HS [199]
 
c.S 5HS RC IAD j.HS D, c.S 5P 6K(2) 2S(2) jc j.623HS, 5K 2S(2) jc j.623HS, OTG 2K [197]
 
 
Part 2, throw combos:
 
[midscreen]
(Sol) throw, dash 5P 6K(2) 2S(2) jc j.623HS, dash OTG 2K [102]
(Ram) throw, 6K(2) 2S(2) jc j.623HS, dash OTG 2K [97]
(Venom) throw, 6K(2) jc j.623HS [83]
(Venom) throw, 6K(2) jc j.K jc dj.S(2) HS XX j.623HS [103]
(Pot) throw, dash 6K(2) 2S(2) jc j.HS D XX j.623HS, dash OTG 2K [104]
 
[corner]
(May) throw, (c.S jc j.623HS)x2, c.S 2S(2) jc j.623HS, OTG 2K [140]
(Sol) throw, 6P (c.S jc j.623HS)x2, c.S 2S(2) jc j.623HS, OTG 2K [138]
(Pot) throw, dash (6P c.S 2S(2) jc j.623HS)x2, OTG 2K [123]
(Pot) throw, dash 6P c.S 2S(2) jc j.623HS, 5K c.S 2S(2) jc j.623HS, 5K c.S jc j.623HS [120]
 
 
Part 3, dusts:
 
[midscreen]
5D~8, j.D D K jc dj.HS D XX j.623HS [121]
 
[corner]
5D~6, j.S(1) HS D, c.S 5HS XX [4]6~3 [139]
5D~6, c.S 6P c.S 5P 6K(2) 2S(2) jc j.623HS, 5K 2S(2) jc j.623HS, OTG 2K [141]
(Pot) 5D~6, c.S 6P c.S jc IAD j.HS D, c.S 5P 6K(2) 2S(2) jc j.623HS, OTG 2K [128]
 
 
Part 4, [4]6HS combos:
 
[midscreen]
[4]6HS(0) RC IAD j.HS D, c.S 5P 6K(2) 2S(2) jc j.HS D XX j.623HS [212]
 
[corner]
[4]6HS(0) RC IAD j.HS D, c.S 5P 6K(2) 2S(2) jc j.623HS, c.S 2S(2) jc j.623HS [221]
 
[midscreen]
[4]6HS(full) RC dash c.S 2S(2) jc j.623HS, 5P 6K(2) 2S(2) jc j.HS D XX j.623HS [187]
 
[corner]
[4]6HS(full) RC dash (c.S 2S(2) jc j.623HS)x2 [171]
 
 
Part 5, 623S RC combos:
 
[midscreen] 
623S RC dash c.S 2S(2) jc j.K jc dj.HS D XX j.623HS [140]
623S RC 63214HS~PKPKPK [140]
623S RC dash c.S 2S(2) jc j.623HS, 5P 6K(2) 2S(2) jc j.HS D XX j.623HS [171]
 
 
Part 6, 214P RC combos:
 
[midscreen]
214P RC c.S 2S(2) jc j.K jc dj.HS D XX j.623HS [156]
214P RC c.S 2S(2) jc j.623HS, 5P 6K(2) 2S(2) jc j.HS D XX j.623HS [177] 

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I don't see something cool and important mentioned in here yet.  I was talking about Axl combos elsewhere on the internet and was told by someone that you can get around the proration added to RC combos if you are able to wait to hit the opponent until after the time slow effect ends.  There aren't too many characters who can take advantage of that that I am aware of, but one of those characters is Axl with Axl Bomber.  You can do something like:

 

AA 2S(2) hjc j.H D XX Bomber RC, dash TK Bomber, c.S jc Bomber, 5K 2S(2) jc TK Bomber.

 

This assumes you reach the corner after the second Bomber, but two Bombers already have pretty good screen carry.  Anyway, the TK Bomber after the RCed Bomber connects after the time freeze ends, meaning the combo doesn't get the RC proration and does an absolute ton of damage.  I know other characters like May can do the same thing off their throw, but I don't know if Axl has any other ways to take advantage of it.

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You can do things like:

 

midscreen c.S, 5H, 2D, Rensen -> 8, RC, Haitaka, wait, stance combo

corner c.S, 5H, 2D, Rensen -> 8. RC, run up c.S, 2S Bomber loop

Rashousen RC on hit, run up to the corner and wait, c.S, 5H, 2D, Rensen -> 2

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I've been trying to work the midscreen tk bomber into 5p link into some combos and have found at least one good (consistent) candidate for maximizing midscreen damage.

Combos done on sol at full hp:

(CH) 6H 66 6P c.S 5P 6K 2S jc j.H j.D Bomber does 179

(CH) 6H (small walk) 6K 2S TK Bomber  5P 6K 2S jc j.H j.D Bomber does 191

 

Granted its only 12 more damage, but every little bit counts.

 

I'm trying to find more actually useful setups for the link but its very difficult to regulate the height of the other player, especially because axl has to be nearly directly under them when you TK bomber so that you are close enough for the 5P and the 2S that follows to connect, otherwise you have to do something like 5P 6K (jc) 6P or let them tech and try to snag them.

 

Edits:

(CH) Raieisageki 6P c.S 5P 6K 2S jc j.H j.D Bomber does 214

(CH) Raieisageki 6K 2S TK Bomber  5P 6K 2S jc j.H j.D Bomber does 228

This one is a bit more dubious because you need to be spaced pretty precisely to be able to hit the link.

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I don't see something cool and important mentioned in here yet.  I was talking about Axl combos elsewhere on the internet and was told by someone that you can get around the proration added to RC combos if you are able to wait to hit the opponent until after the time slow effect ends.  There aren't too many characters who can take advantage of that that I am aware of, but one of those characters is Axl with Axl Bomber.  You can do something like:

 

AA 2S(2) hjc j.H D XX Bomber RC, dash TK Bomber, c.S jc Bomber, 5K 2S(2) jc TK Bomber.

 

This assumes you reach the corner after the second Bomber, but two Bombers already have pretty good screen carry.  Anyway, the TK Bomber after the RCed Bomber connects after the time freeze ends, meaning the combo doesn't get the RC proration and does an absolute ton of damage.  I know other characters like May can do the same thing off their throw, but I don't know if Axl has any other ways to take advantage of it.

I think this might be our starting point for breaking the damage barriers we're likely to run up against without this tech. The combination of corner carry and "absolute ton"s of damage fascinates me, because I'd wager that might be enough to actually propel Axl's overall power in the cast to a higher level. Are we talking 300ish damage here?

I think this will be what I look into first when I next have access to training mode.

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"Absolute tons" might have been an overexaggeration.  That combo as listed does 235 damage to Sol with the bonus of the hard knockdown, which is still a nice chunk of damage off an AA BnB conversion.  The post-RC portion is 98 of that damage.   

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Off of 2k OTG midscreen/corner you can Raieisageki YRC j.h j.d.  you can extend 2k OTG with cl.s 5p for additional carry/damage.  YRC will eat inputs so they will likely have to block your j.h j.d.  Make sure to YRC before Axl stops in the air, the idea is to fling yourself and YRC while you still have momentum

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I was messing wih combos that net me damage and knockdown, which its no that common for Axl in this game.... I found that doing combos with

Benten RRC follow with a Tk Bomber is the way to go... you get over 200 ish everytime and the so precious and beloved KD... For me KD its important in this game cuz Axl its no longer the rushdown that he used to be on +R, so getting control and space its more important to me... Hope this helps

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I don't see something cool and important mentioned in here yet.  I was talking about Axl combos elsewhere on the internet and was told by someone that you can get around the proration added to RC combos if you are able to wait to hit the opponent until after the time slow effect ends.  There aren't too many characters who can take advantage of that that I am aware of, but one of those characters is Axl with Axl Bomber.  You can do something like:

 

AA 2S(2) hjc j.H D XX Bomber RC, dash TK Bomber, c.S jc Bomber, 5K 2S(2) jc TK Bomber.

 

This assumes you reach the corner after the second Bomber, but two Bombers already have pretty good screen carry.  Anyway, the TK Bomber after the RCed Bomber connects after the time freeze ends, meaning the combo doesn't get the RC proration and does an absolute ton of damage.  I know other characters like May can do the same thing off their throw, but I don't know if Axl has any other ways to take advantage of it.

So, I quickly did a test of this proration before and after.  Did a small quick combo just to prove it works. Verdict: it does  Posting the video here just for proof and hoping I did it right and that there wasn't something else affecting damage.http://youtu.be/ezw-IIA2kas

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Seems to be a pretty small difference unless you can get a lot more combo after the RC. Still, might be worth looking into. Also: I'm finding that when you can, it's a lot better (More carry, more damage) to get a benten RC than a rensen RC. Axl's combo routes are kind of frustratingly straightforward now, so the science has been slow.

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Seems to be a pretty small difference unless you can get a lot more combo after the RC. Still, might be worth looking into. Also: I'm finding that when you can, it's a lot better (More carry, more damage) to get a benten RC than a rensen RC. Axl's combo routes are kind of frustratingly straightforward now, so the science has been slow.

The idea with doing combo into sj height Bomber RC dash TK Bomber is that it not only pretty much guarantees you get around RC damage proration but also can allow you to sometimes get 4 Bombers in the combo still with the hard knockdown, like in that AA 2S(2) combo I mentioned before that does 235 on Sol. It might not be the best idea all the time, but it's worth exploring.

Also, I have to admit, I initially didn't believe you about Benten RC (Benten is the DP, right?) being a better option than Rensen~up R. That's mostly because Rensen~up also allows you to easily wait out the time slow of the RC, thus avoiding the proration. However, I decided to test some things anyway with these results:

[midscreen]

5K c.S 2D XX [4]6S~9 RC dash TK Bomber, 5P 6K(2) 2S(2) TK Bomber [158, hard knockdown]

5K c.S 2D XX [4]6~9 RC dash c.S 2S(2) TK Bomber, 5P 6K(2) 2S(2) TK Bomber [175, very difficult midscreen, hard knockdown]

5K c.S 2D XX 623S RC dash c.S 2S(2) TK Bomber, 5P 6K(2) 2S(2) TK Bomber [184, very easy midscreen, but hard knockdown difficult to get]

Edit: Dumb optimization: Change 623S RC dash c.S 2S(2) to 623S RC dash 6P 2S(2). It's more damage and it seems like it makes it easier to both carry further toward the corner and also keep them close enough to land the 5P if you're still midscreen after that point.

It was very surprising to me that the 623S combo didthat much more damage while still dealing with RC proration, but I guess that can be attributed maybe to it being a single hit move and Rensen~up being four hits? Also, getting the hard knockdown with the 623S combo is extremely difficult, basically requiring you to catch the 5P as low as absolutely possible, and it was hard even if I cut out the c.S after the RC dash. Maybe c.S straight into TK Bomber is a better option in some or all of these combos, but I'm still very inconsistent at that so I didn't check it.

Weirdly enough, with the c.S 5H 2D starter, it seems like you have to go straight to 2S(2) after the RC dash in the 623S combo, otherwise they recover before the last TK Bomber connects. It's possible it works and I'm just bad, though.

Another thing worth mentioning is that in the corner you have to have dash momentum for 5K c.S 2D XX 623S to connect, at least on Sol, which I imagine means a ton of characters require the dash if your opponent is cornered.

Finally, one last consideration is the damage done before RC, where Rensen~up does 17-21 more damage before the RC than 623S, depending on starting string. It's something to keep in mind if you know your opponent is waiting for you to spend meter before bursting out. Of course, in that case you're probably going to RC into Sparrowhawk juggle anyway, in which case the damage seems pretty much tied between Rensen~up RC and 623S RC.

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