[Xrd] Axl Combo Science Thread

[GuerrillaTactic]

Hello again and sorry for the double post but just thought I'd update and say I'm now getting the combo a bit more consistently after vigorously training. I'm also trying to figure out the most damaging bomber loops in the corner and I know the 2D, DP combos will do more damage because there are fewer hits at the beginning but I can't seem to get a third rep in if I start the combo that way.

 

So currently I'm working on....

 

5K, 6P, 2D, 623S, RC, dash 5S, 2S (2 hits), TK bomber, 5S, 6P, 2S (2 hits), TK bomber.....

 

This all works however, if I omit the 6P in the second loop I can't seem to get the height to perform a third loop but if I perform it as I typed it above, I can alter the timing of the 5S in the last loop. If I hit early the opponent can tech before hitting the ground and before I can hit them with 5S, 5P or 5K but I can delay the 5s of the 5S, 6P 2S loop enough so that it grounds the opponent but I can't hit 5S soon enough.

 

What I'm really looking for is that middle ground so that I can try either a third loop or 5S, rensen but I just can't get it to work.

 

Any ideas here people?

[Sking]

Well something that I found is try to hit them with the c.S as high as posible after the 623, RC, that way it give me time to do a 5K, c.S, TKB.... I started watching matches from GG RELOAD to get ideas on the bomber loop, I've got a few that need to be tested... and a side note.. I love hitaka stance, I'm developing a tech that will blow your minds

[Kumlekar]

Well something that I found is try to hit them with the c.S as high as posible after the 623, RC, that way it give me time to do a 5K, c.S, TKB.... I started watching matches from GG RELOAD to get ideas on the bomber loop, I've got a few that need to be tested... and a side note.. I love hitaka stance, I'm developing a tech that will blow your minds

Would said tech involved canceling the stance juggle into a bomber loop?

[GuerrillaTactic]

So I was just testing a little bit of what can be done after overhead and I found something in the corner.

 

6HS, 5K/5S, 4-6S~U, 5P, 6K (2 hits), 2S (2 hits), bomber, 5S, 4-6S~2

 

As I remember I did this variation with 5S after the overhead and it got me 168 damage against Sol where as if I did 5K, 2S (2 hits), bomber as the ender I think it did 152.

 

It's not a huge difference and I need to test it again to make sure I have all my numbers right (because I think I may have some of the damage values off) but it seems pretty good for 0 meter in the corner and I'm sure if an RC is used somewhere in there it could crank the damage up on the 200 mark. Alternatively if you end in Rensen~down swing it appears to pull out of the corner slightly so you can do corner cross-ups but I didn't test if I could actually get behind in this situation, I was just a bit shocked that I hit it and attempted it again straight away!

 

Edit/update

 

Tested things and it seems a bit easier if you use 5P, 2S (2hits), bomber, 5S, 4-6S~2 but I completely forgot to look at the numbers again. Also works on Slayer.

 

Found a nice bomber loop against Sol and Slayer in the corner.

 

5K, 5S, 2D, 623S, RC dash 5S, bomber, 5K, 5S, 2S (2 hits), bomber, 5S, 4-6S~2 that did 173 or 174 on Slayer and I think 198 on Sol.

 

These combos do only 1 or 2 points more damage than a bomber ender it seems but it gets you the corner vacuum and the knock down, you also get a better selection of corner mixups from there so I'm starting to lean towards trying to end my combos that way.

[Fennas]

I can't do Axl Bomber consisten after a 2S. Is it possible to Tiger Knee it like this: 62369HS ? I tried this and alway just get a j.HS. Is there a trick or do you simply just jump and do 623HS as soon as possible(which gives me an IAD most of the time)?

[MoralHazardPay]

I can't do Axl Bomber consisten after a 2S. Is it possible to Tiger Knee it like this: 62369HS ? I tried this and alway just get a j.HS. Is there a trick or do you simply just jump and do 623HS as soon as possible(which gives me an IAD most of the time)?

6283HS is how I do it. Still tricky off a 2S.

[Magile]

I can't do Axl Bomber consisten after a 2S. Is it possible to Tiger Knee it like this: 62369HS ? I tried this and alway just get a j.HS. Is there a trick or do you simply just jump and do 623HS as soon as possible(which gives me an IAD most of the time)?

Since you're doing it from 2S, you get (normally) two hits so you have time to confirm. In between the first and second hit, hold 6. When the second hit lands, you just do 923. The motion is pretty fluid for a 6923, but I find you need to hold the 3 and it has to be one swift motion, otherwise you just get a j.HS. I have no issue doing this from a 2S due to the time you have to have your motion ready to go (since I know how it can be when your hands aren't warmed up yet).

[Digital Watches]

Can anyone find a meterless non-corner throw combo that knocks down Elphelt? I can't. If I have to resort to using meter or doing no combo to get my knockdown, I will be sad.

[Fennas]

Since you're doing it from 2S, you get (normally) two hits so you have time to confirm. In between the first and second hit, hold 6. When the second hit lands, you just do 923. The motion is pretty fluid for a 6923, but I find you need to hold the 3 and it has to be one swift motion, otherwise you just get a j.HS. I have no issue doing this from a 2S due to the time you have to have your motion ready to go (since I know how it can be when your hands aren't warmed up yet).

 

Thanks a lot I will try this. I am relatively new to GG and just noticed that the buffer engine isn't as forgiving as other games. I often did 6236 which resulted in the j.H. I'm also still struggling with the 2363214H Motion for his super. Practice makes perfect I guess.

[Kumlekar]

Has anyone played with Air throw RC combos yet?  Everthing I've listed below I've tested on Sol.

 

Midscreen

3P-2D-Rensen-8 [111]

CH 3P, c.S-2S(2) j.HD-Bomber [160] - Not very useful as you have to be at point blank for the c.S to hit.

CH 3P (RC), 66 c.S-2S(2) j.HD-Bomber [131]

 

Corner:

CH 6H, 6P(2)-2S(2), TK Bomber, c.s-2s(2) j.HD-Bomber [190]

CH 6H, c.S-2S(2), TK Bomber, c.s-2s(2) j.HD-Bomber [191]

 

Ground Throw Midscreen:

Throw, 6K(2)-2S(2) j.HD-Bomber [113] - Doable with a normal jump, if the 6K lands early, it may require a super jump instead.

Throw, 6k(2)-2S(2) Tk Bomber (RC), dash, c.S-2S(2) j.HD-Bomber [133]

 

Air throw midscreen

Air throw (RC), air dash, j.H-Bomber [95] - travels about half the stage in distance so as long as you throw in the right direction its going to put them in a corner.  If you do the j.H too early, axl won't be facing the right direction. Easier with a higher air throw.  May be possible to continue the combo if you hit the corner when you do the bomber depending on height.

Air throw (RC), 5P-6K(2)-2S(2), sj.HD-Bomber [127]  - Works on Elphelth too.  Its easier with a lower air throw.

 

Air throw corner:

Air Throw (RC), 6k(2)-2S(2) j.HD-bomber [115] - Did this accidentially when I was trying to do the combo below.  Haven't been able to land a 6P after the throw since doing this once.

Air Throw (RC), 5K-2S(2) TK Bomber, c.S-2s j.HD-Bomber [136] - Works on Elphelth too.

[Digital Watches]

I mean, you'llget RRC anyway if it's a real confirm, so it's vaguely moot. Still probably prorates less.

[Kumlekar]

Can anyone find a meterless non-corner throw combo that knocks down Elphelt? I can't. If I have to resort to using meter or doing no combo to get my knockdown, I will be sad.

Throw, 6P(2)-2S(2) TK Bomber or 6P(2)-2S(2) j.HD-Bomber work.

 

EDIT: I guess that doesn't knockdown on her, strange.

[APinkBuny]

So I just got my fightstick today for my PS4 so damn happy. I can finally hit way more combo's. I'm currently working on this string and was wondering if I could get more.

 

6P, c.S, f.S, 4P, Rensen

 

I feel like I could get more but I'm relearning stick so figure I'd ask while I level up my execution.

 

And Here's a combo I was working on the day before my Fightstick came in.

 

K, c.S, Rensen 2, RRC, 6K, 2S, jc.HS, D,TK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGI2D3AmiIE

 

From testing I believe this works on everyone and I feel you might be able to follow up. One note is that you must change your timing on the RC for each character until he/she floats to the top to connect our 6K.

[Kumlekar]

So I just got my fightstick today for my PS4 so damn happy. I can finally hit way more combo's. I'm currently working on this string and was wondering if I could get more.

 

6P, c.S, f.S, 4P, Rensen

 

I feel like I could get more but I'm relearning stick so figure I'd ask while I level up my execution.

 

And Here's a combo I was working on the day before my Fightstick came in.

 

K, c.S, Rensen 2, RRC, 6K, 2S, jc.HS, D,TK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGI2D3AmiIE

 

From testing I believe this works on everyone and I feel you might be able to follow up. One note is that you must change your timing on the RC for each character until he/she floats to the top to connect our 6K.

I'm pretty sure you can't follow up on that without another RC.  Axl's followups after a bomber are usually dependent on being lower than the enemy when the bomber connects.  That's why most of the loops are 2S, or 6P into a TKed bomber.  Someone may want to correct me on this.  Also, for the combo notation, be careful to not put TK for a bomber that isn't actually being done with a tiger kneed input please.  I think with the notation that watches listed in the primer that would be K-c.S-Rensen-2 RC, 6K-2S-j.HD-Bomber.

[Digital Watches]

Yeah, kumlekar is correct. I'm using TKB as an abbreviation for "Tiger Knee Bomber" which always means you're doing it from the ground. The relevant terminology here is "Tiger Knee", which in fighting games refers to the technique of inputting the motion for an aerial special move before the jump, using the input buffer to get the aerial special as early as possible after leaving the ground. If you're not coming from the ground, just write "bomber". 

No worries though.

What I want to know is, how the hell are you getting f.S into 5P? 

[APinkBuny]

Yeah, kumlekar is correct. I'm using TKB as an abbreviation for "Tiger Knee Bomber" which always means you're doing it from the ground. The relevant terminology here is "Tiger Knee", which in fighting games refers to the technique of inputting the motion for an aerial special move before the jump, using the input buffer to get the aerial special as early as possible after leaving the ground. If you're not coming from the ground, just write "bomber". 

No worries though.

What I want to know is, how the hell are you getting f.S into 5P? 

My bad the combo is 

6P-c.S-5P-Rensen (5P can be subbed for 2P)

 

Video Link to these bottom 2 combos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2q_nguqC1qc&feature=youtu.be

 

Here's a few more things I found this morning. Note these combo's below have very tight timing.

6P-c.S-6P-c.S-f.S (If timing is not spot on either the last c.S or f.S will wiff)

6P-c.S-6P-3P (3P timing on this is very, very hard. If its not 100% spot on it will wiff)

After 3P you might be able to get 2H and from there a special cancel. The timing is so tight I haven't been able to truly find out. Before I leave and go to class I'll post the theoretical sting.

 

6P-c.S-6P-3P-2H-6H-c.S-TK

6P-c.S-6P-3P-2H-5D-Air combo

Just a theory tho but if it works imo God Like. 

 

These Combo's work on Sol, Leo, Venom, Sin..most likely work on more but that's all the time I had this morning.

 

I find with the first combo which ends in f.S you can mix up with Thunder Shadow and you can end in Rensen. These enders don't combo but I think its a good mix up.

[Digital Watches]

Most people can mash out fast enough that we shouldn't consider 2H-5D or even 2H-6H a combo. 6P-c.S-6P chain is pretty situational, mostly because if you're at the range where you can get it, you either are likely to lose the exchange that led to the hit with most characters, or gotten a counterhit 6P, which launches. What it may be pretty useful for is corner dust combos, which I haven't done much science on yet. If you have any interest in doing that, I'd be curious to see what you'd find. I'll probably take a look at it next time I'm in the lab.

[MoralHazardPay]

So what are the useful TKBomber combos and when to use them? I'd like to up my damage potential or at least get better KDs than the 2S SJC HDBomber

[Digital Watches]

The main reason to TKB in a combo is to get the knockdown. It's Axl's best and often only way to do it. Usually 2S HD Bomber will do more damage, but not knock down. You can get a TKB from any jump-cancellable normal, including c.S, 2S, 6P, and 6K (Though the timing/spacing is tighter and will be techable if you're in a high-hit combo). I would argue that any situation you can get a TKB from, you probably should, unless you're sure it won't knock down. There are a few situations where you can go from TKB into more juggling, usually when they're very close when you hit them (Such as from raw DP RC into run up 6K-2S-TKB), or in the corner. You'll have to get a sense for how to eyeball TKB combos, as usually hitting them higher will allow a relaunch, and hitting them lower will get you a knockdown. 

Things to practice:

-Confirm 5P into 6K-2S-TKB
-Confirm j.D into c.S-5P-6K-TKB (Pretty essential to get the timing down for characters like Ky and Venom, for whom you often have to get your TKB off of 6K midscreen)
-Confirm DP RC into run up 6K-2S-TKB, 5P-6K-2S-TKB (This might not work on all characters)

-Get a TKB as late after a 2S as it will still be untechable (In certain combos, you won't get the knockdown if you do it as early as possible: You need to hit them lower to the ground)

[APinkBuny]

This weekend I'll see what I can do with Axl Dust corner combos with that chain.

[Greyvangelist]

This might've already been played around with or discussed before but I was dicking around in training mode and ended up RCing the unblockable before the actual hanging and noticed they just kind of freeze in place for a few seconds and Burst-blocks them, so I ran them into the corner and Bomber looped off of it. Haven't done it in a real match though.

 

https://www.youtube.com/jr4nrl0wavg

 

It's silly and people really shouldn't be getting hit with unblockable to begin with, but I thought it was a neat and wanted to share.

[00000000]

This might've already been played around with or discussed before but I was dicking around in training mode and ended up RCing the unblockable before the actual hanging and noticed they just kind of freeze in place for a few seconds and Burst-blocks them, so I ran them into the corner and Bomber looped off of it. Haven't done it in a real match though.

 

https://www.youtube.com/jr4nrl0wavg

 

It's silly and people really shouldn't be getting hit with unblockable to begin with, but I thought it was a neat and wanted to share.

Yeah, pretty common knowledge for Axl's but, in my experience, great to do from time to time. Personally, the way I play hinges around showing your opponent what you can do.  Hit them with this once, if they're sleeping, and you pretty much guarantee they try to jump it every time from then on out; this opens up RC shananigans.

[GuerrillaTactic]

So I am in training mode and for some reason, I can't get a third rep of a bomber loop on Pot. I would have thought he would have been one of the easier characters to do this stuff on or at least if different combos were available, they would be more damaging due to his larger falling hurtbox but I just can't seem to find the stuff that works.

 

Currently, I'm starting with 5K, 6P, 2D, 623S, RC,

 

And then I've tried

 

5S, Bomber,

6P, Bomber,

6P, 5S, Bomber

5S, 2S (2 hits), Bomber,

6P, 2S (2 hits), Bomber,

6K (2 hits), 5S, Bomber,

6P, 5S, 2S (2 hits), Bomber,

 

But after all of these I can't seem to get the mix of height and untechable time right so that I can get a third loop. 6P, Bomber seems good at the moment as you can follow up with 5K, 5S, 5P, 2S (2 hits), Bomber and you'll still get knock down BUT you don't recover early enough to tag Pot with anything else. 5S, Bomber might work but it feels like you can't get the same height as 6P, Bomber so I'm getting a little lost here.

 

What are people here using against Pot in the corner? Or is anyone willing to run the gaunlet of working this out with me?

 

Also, because the guard guage doesn't display at a mid point I can't tell what sort of hit stun scaling each move is doing. I imagine the higher the level, the more it is removing but to be able to see it like you could in older GG series would be really helpful here.

[Digital Watches]

The guard gauge does not scale hitstun at all. Guardbar just scales damage, so that shouldn't make a difference for whether a combo will work. Successive hits of a combo, no matter what move they are, will scale untech time (Not grounded hitstun) down, gravity up, and pushback on grounded hits up. .

 

Also, Pot is heavy, I wouldn't be surprised if you just can't get three reps on him. What you should be looking for is the max-damage combo that knocks down, which may involve doing something like 2 reps into P-Rensen-2 or something (I haven't done much anti-pot science yet).

Since gravity scales up with each hit of a combo, if you're looking to get more reps, see where you can lose hits. Possibly confirm your 5K directly into 2D instead of getting the 6P early on? I don't have a system right now so I can't really test anything for you.

[Dragonthorn]

Did you guys know that a 6H-5K link works on specific characters? I was practicing the 6H meaty when I stumbled upon this. Works on the ff:

Sin, Sol, Millia, Faust, Chipp, Elphelt, Venom, Zato

 

I find this pretty amazing actually, gives Axl a tensionless overhead combo against some of the cast.

 

It's also pretty damaging. The ff combo works for instance: 

(on Sol) 6H, 5K, 2D, Rensen, 8, RC, Sparrowhawk, P, K, S, K, S, K.

 

Visually you'll know it's linkable when you see Axl hit "deeper" with his 6H. It's quite subtle. The meaty version of this works on all characters of course.