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RurouniLoneWolf

[Xrd] Sin Kiske Combo Thread

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There is, but not everyone has a DP and you can also land after jH instead since it's deep enough that there's no gap with 2P > 2K unless they IB the last hit, which is really hard. If they're just autopilot inputting DP in this case then they'll get hit by 2K.

Just to throw in my 2 cents on this, I need to try this because I haven't really practiced it myself but one strategy that I do have is to switch up my jump in attacks and sometimes I do use j.H and although it has almost no hitstun it is multi hit which causes people to have to guess when I will land or if I follow up with a low j.D which, if they guess i'm going for the j.H then 2.k, it can get you a free j.D. The real helping hand is that split second float j.D does, opens up people but not something I you can get away with against experienced players often. 

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The 5h loop isn't really that hard

 

 The loop itself isn't hard at all once you've nailed the IAD part, but entering the loop can be really difficult depending on the starter + character you're facing  : doing it from 2K or 5D is incredibly easy, doing it from 623S/214S into leap can be tricky depending on your positioning, and doing it from jD is very character + spacing specific. What is hard about 5H loop is just being able to properly enter it from all the different starters.

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If you have enough food to do that though you might as well just not do the loop at all and go into the j6H route off of 236[H] which does a whole lot more damage and still ends in food. I guess the 5H loops are good for when you have exactly 1000 less calories than you need to end the j6H route with (j)236H but that situation is honestly so uncommon it almost never happens.

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I really like this corner throw combo! If you do throw RRC > 214S > 236[H], you set up the perfect timing for 236H loops. It takes more meter but I definitely think it's worth it for consistency. ExampleBetter example.

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You can just skip 214S and go right into 236[h]. What that has as a benefit is that it's easier to delay 236[h]'s release and as such it's much easier to time the move after the time slowdown, avoiding the rrc forced proration during slowdown.

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You can just skip 214S and go right into 236[h]. What that has as a benefit is that it's easier to delay 236[h]'s release and as such it's much easier to time the move after the time slowdown, avoiding the rrc forced proration during slowdown.

I had no idea that RRC slowdown had forced proration. Weird. Good to know!

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All RC's slowdown has a forced proration that leaves when the slowdown stop.  Thats why you can do way more damage off a midscreen throw RRC by waiting a split second before going for the 214K ect (if that's how you do that combo of course.)

 

The damage Sin would get off of 236H RRC without the forced proration...

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Just a little addendum for the throw RC, don't forget that if you time your RC correctly and run forward long enough before going for the 236[H], you'll avoid the forced proration and you'll be able to do four charged Beaks in a row on almost all the cast. From there, you can either go for a classic combo ender (the whole thing does about 210 on Sol), or do a VD okizeme (provided you have the meter for it). If you do have the required meter and the opponent doesn't have his burst, go for the VD Okizeme, as the following mixup guarantees a dizzy on Sol and lesser dizzy threshold chars on the jH overhead and the low option (sweep > 236[H]*4) guarantees the dizzy on everybody  except Potemkin (who still ends up at one 2P from dizzy). Basically, it means that every throwable move like Fafnir,  IBed Bandit Bringer, Dauros and co, when you have your back in the corner can potentially become an opportunity for  a comeback from the deads !

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So, I have messed around with the new 623S and here's my findings regarding Sin combo theory in 1.1.

 

2D>236K>623S is god midscreen from afar

 

In any midscreen setting where you can't get the big 6H related routes, go for the above. It can even work off of fS>2D in certain spacings. The height provided by 2D>236K allows 623S>214S to have enough hitstun that you can almost always 214k>j6h against most non-gigantic hitboxes. It's basically the range we used to do hunt>driver in over and over but now by adding 2D before the specials you can actually do the old  midscreen clean hit DP route off of any touch. It works off of any range 2D too. Even max range 2D is fine. 236K lifting up more on hit is godsent.

 

 

Also, completely unrelated note but here it is:

 

5H's second hit is jump cancellable now, if you get a counter hit with the second hit you can do 5H(2) ch>iad-jH>j236h>j236236P>ender

 

It's bad and silly but kinda cool.

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Ok, like this the voltic deign "midscreen"  set up  is universal: 2K/5K>5S>5fS>236HS>236K 236236P

In order to make jHS>land>any follow up works you have to avoid reaching the corner, because you're using the back part of the hurtbox of the superball,  if the dummy stops at the corner voltic deign is goin past him and you're not going to continue the combo.

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What are the best ways to go into Beak Driver corner loops? I have been doing experiments with ending in a corner restand after getting in a few repetitions of 236[D] then command hopping and it seems like a much more effective way of staying on your opponent if you don't need to eat since you don't have to deal with knockdown. You have a variety of mixup options based on what normals you use, and you can pretty much crank their guard gauge up as much as you want if they don't FD.

 

All I know right now are out of Grab > RC and a corner 5D with homing dash. Are there any other practical paths?

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Most of the BnBs that include 623S>214S>236[h] can go into it, you just have to delay the 236[h] enough so that they slide all the way to the floor and don't tech in the air. Just try to avoid hitting them too high prior to this since then they'll be too high for it to work. So for example, 2D/6h>623S>214S>236[h] would not be too high while 2D>236k>623S>etc etc would.

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Ah alright. Sounds like I will have to spend meter in order to get it but it seems worth it for all the utility that the loops have. Unburstable, max damage, and all the options to end them, they are just so good.

Oh yeah so what is your opinion on restand ender/reset instead of knockdown? Ending with those instead of conventional knockdown makes me feel like I have sort of kind of mixup.

After the hop from the final Beak Driver you can:

2H(2) > 5D/j.D/5H > 236K(delayed)/5H > 2D(delayed)/j.H(confirm with RTL)
2P > Shenanigans
5P(whiff) > Grab/2K/etc.
2K > c.S/2S > 5D(max range)/236K(delayed)/etc.
5K > 3K/2D(delayed)/5D/236K(delayed)/etc.

 

Cool thing is that in some of the cases where 236K is used, you get at least the middle active frames of the slide so it will end up being slightly more than +2 when blocked.

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My main issue is you skip eating for this. There's no ground rolls in GG so restand isn't that useful unless you have a command grab. Just eat and yrc after eating and go from there. Also, you can get 3 236[h]s above if you microdash them without spending meter and two without microdashing and with no meter.

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Ok so I was messing with what you can get off of 5hs second hit and it turns out a lot.

against may/elph 

5hs (2nd hit)>236k>623s>214s>214k/p>j.6h>2p>5s>5h>6h>623s>214sEat~safe jump

 

 

Against a vast majority of the cast you can get 

5hs (2nd hit)>236k>623s>214s>214k/p>j.s>j.6h>5s>5h>6h>623s>214s>Eat~safe jump
-Inconsistent due to spacing or something its difficult to do on: I-No/Ky/Zato-1
-And requires 214k against Slayer and Sol
 
 
Against Faust/May/Elph/Sin(hard)/Sol(hard)/Millia/I-no/Ram

5hs (2nd hit)>236K>623S>214S>236[h]>whatever

 

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My main issue is you skip eating for this. There's no ground rolls in GG so restand isn't that useful unless you have a command grab. Just eat and yrc after eating and go from there. Also, you can get 3 236[h]s above if you microdash them without spending meter and two without microdashing and with no meter.

 

It seems like a pretty great option out for Grab > RC or Dust in the corner since you spend so little food on the Beak Driver loop due to it only being 1 kcal per repetition. Probably not the best idea out of X > 236H > RC > etc. since the combo requires so much food. One useful thing about the restand is that it makes is incredibly difficult for the opponent to time a reversal or jump correctly if you don't go for reset shenanigans with ground normals. Not exactly sure what the grab invuln properties of the wall slide wakeup are compared to regular wakeup, but it is so much easier to grab people or punish people who expect a grab.

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It seems like a pretty great option out for Grab > RC or Dust in the corner since you spend so little food on the Beak Driver loop due to it only being 1 kcal per repetition. Probably not the best idea out of X > 236H > RC > etc. since the combo requires so much food. One useful thing about the restand is that it makes is incredibly difficult for the opponent to time a reversal or jump correctly if you don't go for reset shenanigans with ground normals. Not exactly sure what the grab invuln properties of the wall slide wakeup are compared to regular wakeup, but it is so much easier to grab people or punish people who expect a grab.

 

Restands aren't bad, but I usually go for them if I do something like a basic corner confirm from JD, like JD>J214S>JS>JS>J6HS>J236HS (2000 Cal), after the air ender eating isn't good so I usually go for 3K and here I use 3K>214S or 3K>236K.

3K>214S is a decent thing on certain characters like Sol, Sin, Axl, Slayer and others since it's a overhead that hits them as soon as they wake up, on others whiffs (Chipp). On normal hit I usually go for 214S>236K>236HS and then eat, on CH I'd try the loop 214SCH>236[HS]>2366[HS]>2366[HS] ecc, if the opponent try to BS it 214SYRC and I get a 236K CH corner combo.

3K>236K is the other thing I'd do, you get into the grab range quickly (grab), you can bait Dps, you can JD them or 236k yrc and try a 2HS>anything that you can do after.

 

Out from Dust in the corner I'd try either the full 2366[HS] loop or 236[HS]x3>Voltic Deign, from grab>RC at least 4 hits of the loop, after that just eat since 6000 Cal aren't "much", you do anything , like 236HS>236K  and you're already at 3000 Cal (can't do any special>special cancel unless you RC it ecc) and god knows when you're able to eat again against some characters (Chipp?), better safe than sorry  :)

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Random tip of 236H CH confirms based on distance with damage on Sol:

 

Close

[4 kcal] CH 236H(tip) > 214K(tap 6) > j.K(delayed) > 5H > 6H > j.S > j.P > dj.S > j.6H > j.214S > j.236H [175 DM]

[4 kcal] CH 236H(tip)> 214K(tap 6) > j.K(delayed) > 6H > j.S > j.6H > j.214S > j.236H [166 DM]

[1 kcal] CH 236H(tip)> 214K(tap 6) > j.K(delayed) > 5H [66/89 DM]

 

Mid-Far

[4 kcal] CH 236H(tip)> 214K > j.S(delayed) > 5P > 5H > 6H > j.S > j.P > dj.S > j.6H > j.214S > j.236H [171 DM]

[1 kcal] CH 236H(tip)> 214K(tap 6) > j.S(delayed) > 5P > 5H [78/98 DM]

 

There are better and more optimized combos, but these work on every weight class and character without having to adjust or delay the initial confirm stuff in any way. They are incredibly consistent at their respective ranges. In fact, both work fine at any range, but they must be adjusted for other variables slightly if they are used outside of them. There only needs to be slight adjustments done in the air based on character differences which may alter combo damage slightly. Just know that the 214K(tap 6) > j.K(delay) > 5H and 214K > j.S(delayed) > 5P will always work on every character.

 

Omitting the 5H from the combo using j.K will actually make the combo much easier since 6H moves you forward. Only thing is that doing 6H without 5H first puts them in the air higher and also leaves you further from the opponent so the air stuff may have to be changed as bit as well since things may whiff etc.

 

Alternate combos for other common situations to get the CH in:

 

Close

[6 kcal] CH 236H(tip) > 236K(w) > 2S > 5H > 6H > j.S > j.6H > j.214S > j.236H [181 DM]

[3 kcal] CH 236H(tip) > 236K(w) > 2S > 5H [75/98 DM]

 

Mid-Far

[6 kcal] CH 236H(tip) > 236K(w) > 2P > 5P > 5H > 6H > j.S > j.P > dj.S > j.6H > j.214S > j.236H [150 DM]

[3 kcal] CH 236H(tip) > 236K(w) > 2P > 5P > 5H [59/79 DM]

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Generally speaking, if you're going into 6H you wanna always do the 623S>214S route loop before going into air normals. So for example this:

[6 kcal] CH 236D(tip) > 236K > 2S > 5H > 6H > j.S > j.6H > j.214S > j.236H [181 DM]

 

should be:

 

236H>236K(W)>2S>5H>6H>623S>214S>214P-4>J6H>cS>5H>6H>JK>JS>J6H>J236H

 

Don't forget the new properties of our 623S, they're REALLY good for all the combos we do.

 

 

Also, off of 236Hch, j6H is the thing to go for in general, it's our heaviest damage normals and allows for the best routes. You can do jS>j6H if you're super far away but it works in almost all ranges.

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Ah I always end up low on food so I'd rather not go for the loop and the loop is character/weight specific as hell. Also these are more for on the fly kind of situations. Like most of the time I get a CH with the tip of 236D, I am either doing 236K to continue pressure and stay in with a low or 214K to go in with an overhead. Hell, if you get the 236D CH on an airborne opponent the loop is out the window because the height spacing is messed up. I just want consistency.

The cool part about these routes is that the timing for both the delay of j.S and j.K after the 214K are the same timings that you would use if you never got the CH in the first place and you wanted the opponent to block. Then the same for the 236K though you have way more time to think with that one.

In order to use j.S > j.6H or just j.6H you need to KNOW that you are going to get the CH or have the CH register in your mind so quickly that you input the correct hop, directional tap, and proper delay for the air normals. I am incapable of doing that so I am taking the easy way out since there is one. Even though there still does need to be a semi-immediate decision between j.K and j.S, I don't mind that because the information about the distance between the opponent and myself is already available before the CH while I am applying pressure. Also, though this could turn into a bad habit for people, you can use j.S as your jump-in from some distance away and j.K as the jump-in if you are closer. That gets rid of the decision entirely if you are aware of your relative position on the screen at all times.

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