[Xrd] Sin Kiske Combo Thread

[Zephyrion22]

how do i consistently hit the RTL combo ender? 

 

if you mean R.T.L as a combo ender you just have to use 5H or Beak driver and buffer the R.T.L very fast

If you mean the 2P link after ground R.T.L combos. you have to time the R.T.L follow-ups (only possible with ground R.T.L follow-ups in 6) to juggle them as high as possible : the idea is that your opponent is supposed to fall into the last R.T.L follow-up to hit with the late active frames of the move. from there you just link something. Note that weight heavily influence the difficulty and the timing of the R.T.L follow-ups. I advise you to begin with lightweights to get a feel on the timing !

[KentoHardRok]

I have been practicing this and looking at video and I have found a few things that help. Its really only consistent after a 236k up close. After first hit, delay second hit as long as possible (I watch for sin to place hand over face), then 3rd hit as soon as it will catch them falling, you want this to come out as soon as possible. This will get them high enough that when you recover you can catch them with a 2p. I think its just another tool to use when calories are an issue but if you land a CH after 236k I think there are better options than this. I hope that helped. oh and what Zephyrion said about weight of characters is important too. 

[khmxspider]

Yeah ive seen dogura do it often from a 236K.

[KentoHardRok]

nvm

[muerto]

are the combos in the op and the wiki all up to date; read there aren't any from 1.0 in there right?

[Valas Phoenix]

Well most of the combos from 1.0 works also in 1.1, leaving outside 236K>236HS>236K>236HS midscreen, all the others should work

[shadow_nobody]

Been trying to figure out improvements to RTL combos and I think I got some down.

These are combos not using the Hawk Baker route.

 

Starter>236K>RTL>2P>5S/5P>5HS>236K>236HS(2hits)>236K>236HS(2hits)

-vs some characters you only get 1 hit on the first 236HS

 

Starter>236K>RTL>2P>5S/5P>5HS>6HS>236HS(2Hits)>236K>236HS(2hits)

-some characters you can get this on if you omit 2p and just go for 5P/5S

 

Also found out you can RTL from Horizontal Dust.

5D>6>j.p>j.S>236HS(2hits)>RTL>followup 3(diagonal down)>followup 6(Straight)

-weird to time, but you can still get 2P>623S or 2P>5P followups.

 

6P>5S>5HS>236K>RTL works

[KentoHardRok]

Nice, since 1.1 i stopped following up beak driver with elk hunt but maybe I should take a look at it again...

 

I assume the horizontal dust is a mid screen and not corner combo?

[shadow_nobody]

yeah in the corner EH>BD(1-2 hits) definitely still combos on a lot of people. 

 

The horizontal dust is midscreen and has to hit pretty close to get the j.p fast enough.

I have other ideas for combos and what not I'm always working on and I'll post what I come up with.

[faultydefense]

Shenanigans

 

[Valas Phoenix]

Shenanigans

 

 

Axl can Jump Barrier in that set up, I think the combo is too long, since your 236HS push you too far from him, try to do it a bit shorter, here is a sample how I'd do it  , Since it involves JD>J214S>5HS it's char specific (tested on Sol)

JD>J214S>5HS>IAD>JK>JS>JK>5HS>IAD>JK>JS>JK>5S>5HS>236HS(1hit)>VD>any mix up let's go for the run> rising jhs route

rising JHS>2HS(2hit)>5HS(1hit)>6HS>623S>214S>236[HS]>214K[6]>5S>5HS(1hit)>236HS(1hit)>VD again

I also recorded it if you prefer to see it directly https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_idnjy0iYlo

 

 

[faultydefense]

I think you're missing the point but thanks I guess. these are not air tight but they keep all your calories and build a ton of meter for any followups. (The first combo literally builds 50%) (The idea here is that if they had the health you can string at least 3-4 setups without ever running out of bar or calories as long as you start with about 30-50%, if I'm counting right your setup is going to leave you hungry if you try to finish your 3rd rep?)

(this started as just cmv shit...more airdashes is automatically more swag too... (this is the most important thing at the end of the day, I have allergic reactions to people telling me to shorten my combos) ) Also, if axl wants to try to jump block this voltic dean then running up and making him block 2H will eat about 50% of his tension guage)

 

I actually managed to land one this morning online. If they're hard pressed to try to force their way out of an oncoming VD, just 214S > Leap to make them sit still. I believe this will stop everything anyone can do outside of teleports. (setup doesn't work on chipp without making it tighter)

 

For character specific stuff:

j.D > j.214S > 5H works on everyone but i-no, (airdash follow up not possible on Leo). I can get the whole string of combos to work on most everyone except these 2 by adding/removing 1 or 2 j.Ks or 5Ss

 

j.236S > 5H > airdash is more consistent with iad j.SK |> instead of iad j.KSK |> and does more damage ~usually~ (if you have guard bar always use your calories) (It's also way more reliable on characters like ky or even sin that have somewhat low hitboxes in the air.)

however I noted like 5 characters where it makes it more consistent with an extra j.K at the start. I have that list at home though, i believe it was like eddie, venom, faust?, ?, ?

 

I found another route that involves a running 5H > (normal jump forward) j.KSK instead of 5H iad j.K/S that I will be using for these characters.

[Valas Phoenix]

 

I think you're missing the point but thanks I guess.

I really am missing the point :|

Also, if axl wants to try to jump block this voltic dean then running up and making him block 2H will eat about 50% of his tension guage)

Axl can just SJ block, J barrier block or SJ airdash out, but if you consider the rest of the cast

-Zato can do BTL to pass under the VD or Fly away

-Elphet can Roll under the VD in her stance

-Ky can slide under

-Another Sin can slide under

-Sol can GV to get under the VD and screw the set up

-Chipp can get out with the teleport or doing other Chipp's stuff

-Faust can get out in many ways, just holding 3 direction to pass under or using his

-Millia can roll under VD or double jump out/super jump dash 

-Bedman can teleport with his dash

-Slayer doesn't have troubles of getting out from the corner, he can SJ and use J214K to get far away from the corner

-I-no can SJ J236HS to get out from the corner and probably also stroke the big tree can pass under VD, I don't remember this

-Pot using J41236 shouldn't have problems too but I'm not really sure since he's slow, with all that gap it should be possible though

Basically except for (not sure, I haven't seen these but maybe they could also get out from the corner) Axl, May, Leo, Venom, Ramlethal that can SJ block, J block barrier or SJ airdash out, all the others shouldn't have difficulties, if they have they can do the universal things all the others can do (obv pot can't super jump airdash).

That's why I don't understand why a Sin should do this instead of getting the standard VD set up. 

 

if I'm counting right your setup is going to leave you hungry if you try to finish your 3rd rep?)

 

That depends on what I Do after the first VD connects, but again, if the opponent ends up dead there isn't a need to do the 3rd rep.

Anyways, if that works for you good for you, I don't see the point of doing this but maybe I'm just closed minded to new stuff. However If you can record this in a match with consistency I'd love to see it =)

 

For character specific stuff:

j.D > j.214S > 5H works on everyone but i-no, (airdash follow up not possible on Leo). I can get the whole string of combos to work on most everyone except these 2 by adding/removing 1 or 2 j.Ks or 5Ss

 

j.236S > 5H > airdash is more consistent with iad j.SK |> instead of iad j.KSK |> and does more damage ~usually~ (if you have guard bar always use your calories) (It's also way more reliable on characters like ky or even sin that have somewhat low hitboxes in the air.)

however I noted like 5 characters where it makes it more consistent with an extra j.K at the start. I have that list at home though, i believe it was like eddie, venom, faust?, ?, ?

 

I found another route that involves a running 5H > (normal jump forward) j.KSK instead of 5H iad j.K/S that I will be using for these characters.

This part is useful I didn't know this, I'll take note

That's it, I didn't expect to get this kind of feedback

I have allergic reactions to people telling me to shorten my combo

 for just saying this

Axl can Jump Barrier in that set up, I think the combo is too long, since your 236HS push you too far from him, try to do it a bit shorter, here is a sample how I'd do it  , Since it involves JD>J214S>5HS it's char specific (tested on Sol)

Next time I'll mind my own business even if something feels wrong to me.

[KentoHardRok]

So just gonna add my two cents in this. let me start off by saying I STILL have trouble if IAD combos so kudos for all of you who are proficient, its not easy and screw anyone who says they are, you didn't just pick an airdasher and hit 9 and 6 the first time off of 5HS and it worked, you practiced. 

second I think there is definite merit to long combos optimized or not. This is a fighting game and part of all fighting games is the mental aspect. Throwing someone off or making someone respect you in a match so they block a little longer in the corner or let you walk up and throw. A long combo can sometimes get you that respect and make someone second guess their actions. Its not always about the damage but that surprise factor in someone never seeing Sin do 20 some odd hits. 

We already know what combos are optimized for each situation and all of the factors that go into it but that doesn't mean its not fun to mix it up if you can right? Lets face it, playing Sin, we don't have as many tools as some of the other characters so mix ups keep it fun. 

[faultydefense]

I think every "escape" you mentioned except for chipp/eddie who have ways to just dissapear, the other person will wind up losing all of their meter trying to block or eating a counterhit if you j.H or 214S

A) 214S CH = dizzy...

B) Both of the first 2 combos build 50% meter

C) The best reason that I can come up with though that I didn't think of originally is the best counter to VD setups for most people is a well timed Dead Angle, Using these setups the other player can typically eat a mix-up BEFORE they're put in blockstun, right when they eat the overhead, or sin will simply be too far away to get hit by it, which can eliminate that threat. If they're mashers keep them still, you still get to play around with the incoming VD, if you have them blocking on wake-up go for mix-up.

 

My bolded text is a just good natured joke because I really didn't expect negative feedback when I posted on the youtube video that the person waking up can hit buttons. I tried to make it silly enough that you couldn't take it seriously. I'll go sillier next time. Was just trying not to come off like I was fighting you. You also wanted me to tweak my combo into the airdash BnB that everyone knows...i was disappointed :p

edit 9: OF course you should be using tighter VD setups in your gameplay as well.

[Eshi]

I don't think jump barrier is the problem so much as, I'm 95% sure that most characters can just super jump to avoid it entirely. Cutting one iteration of the loop would probably fix this though.

Side note: the other problem with really long loops is that it builds the opponent's burst gauge faster. 

[shadow_nobody]

I like the idea and the fact that it builds 50% meter, but I don't like the fact that they aren't hit meaty. 

You end up giving the opponent too many options. However it isn't awful for some of the cast, but I found that he last loop was a little hard for me. 

Gave me some great ideas to improve and modify combos to get more out of them.

[Valas Phoenix]

 

You also wanted me to tweak my combo into the airdash BnB that everyone knows...i was disappointed :p 

I'm pretty sure I haven't told you to tweak your combo like that ^^" I just wrote a sample of what I'd do (x2 rep) after stating that your 236HS leaves too far for a meaty stuff. If anything I'd use your combo for a low cal 50% tension building, not for VD set ups, but as I said before, do things the way you like, I'm not going to discuss further on this matter.

 

Posting a corner combo to do with Sin's food bar empty and 50 tension

Corner 5D>6>236[HS]>RC>214HS>2366[HS]x5>214K>JK>5S>5HS(1hit)>236HS>214HS

you can probably add more rep, it depends on how well you can buffer your dashing beak driver

adding the visual reference https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qonyPnfTL3M

Edit: Another one, start with 6000-7000 Cal available and 50% tension

Corner (near the opponent) 236K>623S>214S>236[HS](hunger)>RC>214HS>2366[HS]>214K>JK>5S>5HS>(1Hit)>214P

you start with a corner combo and end up without having to eat since you used only 1000 Cal after RC>Cal recovering, you can then stick to your opponent and bait things/throwing meaty 2HS or whatever having 9000 Cal to convert anything into another big damaging corner combo.

[faultydefense]

More labwork. Found out how to get IADs on LEO 

Thank you Chonari for showing me the ways of 6H iad j.P, everyone should go watch him.

 

[shadow_nobody]

yeah 6HS, iad J.pk works from a lot of situations.

Chonari is also probably top 3 best sins. Up there with Dogura and Zadi.

[faultydefense]

In an effort to have to think even less, I tried to come up with universal calorie-free (after the j.214s) for the cast, tried to get as few routes as possible to group the characters into. Got it down to 3.

 

Route 1: Sin, Ky, May, Chipp, Potemkin, Axl, Ramlethal, Bedman

 

Route 2: Faust, Sol, Elphelt, Slayer, Venom, Eddie

 

 

Route 3: Leo, Millia

 

 

 

NOTES:

 

*Ramlethal - must delay the initial 5H

*May - must delay the initla 5H

** Millia - Can't be TOO deep in the corner, you'd actually want to jump away j.D if you were

***I-no...don't try it...

[khmxspider]

 

***I-no...don't try it...

i think someone found a way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeP5tlfkVT4

[shadow_nobody]

I made a thing. I'll update on it later.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQSJ8TiyADw

Quick update on the various things in the video. I'll update more on this tomorrow with the notations, what is optimal, can most likely be improved, and what works on who.

-Beak Driver RC confirms-

0:00 - Corner to Corner 

0:11 - Consistent Mid Screen [7K Calories]

0:22 - Low Calorie [5K Calories]

0:31 - Optimal Mid Screen

0:42 - Faust Specific Combo (difficult)

0:53 - May/Faust Combo [7k]

-TK Beak Driver usage-

1:01-1:11 Showing that tiger knee Beak Driver has a few frames that can be YRC if whiffed or RRC on block.

1:12 - Confirm from TK Beak Driver RRC

-Counter Hit Beak Driver Confirms-

1:24 - Mostly Universal CH Beak Driver from near max range

1:35-2:05 - Universal Confirm CH Beak Driver that even works on Elphelt. 

2:06-2:37 - Showing that RTL can be confirmed into from a 6P. Also showing safer follow up combos that stil do good damage.

-Throw Combos-

2:39 - Cranked up RISC throw combos that use little to no calories.

[KentoHardRok]

Well I was playing mgsv until I watched this... Back to xrd now. Great stuff!

Sent from my D6616 using Tapatalk

[Dreiko]

A very important thing for Sin is blockstrings intended to maximize your foe's guard bar and guard-bar-specific hitconfirms. I have used my potato to record footage from a match showing this. I'm sure most of us already know this but it can never be stressed enough, all the same.