[Xrd] Sin Kiske Combo Thread

[Zephyrion22]

Just doing a quick list of 236H (CH) counter confirms when the opponent is in dead corner, since it's kinda a pain hard to confirm those when using Leap (adjusting the distance, minding weight + chara specifics, delaying properly or not if need be, all that jazz) : I don't have any filming equipment, so can't share it via video, sorry^^

 

Corner 236H CH any distance universal emergency confirms

- 236H CH >(dash>) f.S > 236H  113 dmg 2k cal

-236H CH> 214S 236H  132 dmg 5k cal

-236H CH> delay 236K>236H 106 dmg 5k cal you can rep this for 145 dmg and 9k cal

-236H CH > 236236P> dash >236[H]WS>66>236[H](WS)x3>214K>j.6H re-stand>2H(2)>2D 241 dmg 6k cal + 50 meter  This is a sample but you can do whatever you want after the Voltic, since you have a billion years to confirm. Only for those who like to pop balls during pressure^^

-236H CH>214S>632146H(6~6~6)>2P>623S(crit)>214S>236[H](WS)>214K>j.6H restand>2H(2)>2D 234dmg 8kcal + 50 meter

Corner 236H CH from mid distance to up close

236H CH>dash>2P>5P>5H>6H>IAD>jP>j.K>5H> delay 623S(crit)>214K>(j.S)>j.K>5H>iAD>j.K>j.S>j.K>5H>236H 145 dmg 2kcal + possibility to set a Voltic. You can also go directly into 623(crit) combos from this but you won't always get the critical to hit correctly, so this is actually the most stable route.

[Dreiko]

Just doing a quick list of 236H (CH) counter confirms when the opponent is in dead corner, since it's kinda a pain hard to confirm those when using Leap (adjusting the distance, minding weight + chara specifics, delaying properly or not if need be, all that jazz) : I don't have any filming equipment, so can't share it via video, sorry^^

 

Corner 236H CH any distance universal emergency confirms

- 236H CH >(dash>) f.S > 236H  113 dmg 2k cal

-236H CH> 214S 236H  132 dmg 5k cal

-236H CH> delay 236K>236H 106 dmg 5k cal you can rep this for 145 dmg and 9k cal

-236H CH > 236236P> dash >236[H]WS>66>236[H](WS)x3>214K>j.6H re-stand>2H(2)>2D 241 dmg 6k cal + 50 meter  This is a sample but you can do whatever you want after the Voltic, since you have a billion years to confirm. Only for those who like to pop balls during pressure^^

-236H CH>214S>632146H(6~6~6)>2P>623S(crit)>214S>236[H](WS)>214K>j.6H restand>2H(2)>2D 234dmg 8kcal + 50 meter

Corner 236H CH from mid distance to up close

236H CH>dash>2P>5P>5H>6H>IAD>jP>j.K>5H> delay 623S(crit)>214K>(j.S)>j.K>5H>iAD>j.K>j.S>j.K>5H>236H 145 dmg 2kcal + possibility to set a Voltic. You can also go directly into 623(crit) combos from this but you won't always get the critical to hit correctly, so this is actually the most stable route.

A near-universal confirm (when not in opposite ends of the stage basically) would be:

 

236Hch>214K-6>JS>J6H>cS>5H>6H>623S>214S> here you branch based on the distance to the corner into these two paths:

 

1(when close enough to the corner to get 236[H] to bounce): 236[H]>214k (may need to hold 4/6 depending on spacing and foe weight) >j6H>cS>5H>6H>jK>jS>j6H>j236H (can super if it'll kill)

2(midscreen): 214P-4>j6H>cS>5H>6H>jS>j6H>j236H (super if it'll kill)

[Zephyrion22]

A near-universal confirm (when not in opposite ends of the stage basically) would be:

 

236Hch>214K-6>JS>J6H>cS>5H>6H>623S>214S> here you branch based on the distance to the corner into these two paths:

 

1(when close enough to the corner to get 236[H] to bounce): 236[H]>214k (may need to hold 4/6 depending on spacing and foe weight) >j6H>cS>5H>6H>jK>jS>j6H>j236H (can super if it'll kill)

2(midscreen): 214P-4>j6H>cS>5H>6H>jS>j6H>j236H (super if it'll kill)

Agreed, that this is the optimal confirm, especially midscreen where it's consistent ! It also works in the corner, but the bounce effect changes depending on their position, so you end up crossing them up, or hitting j.S too late and not getting your j.6H. Also since you have to cancel 236H by Leap from the get-go for it to work in the corner, it can be a bit unpractical and you may miss on potential damage and positioning because of this, not to mention all the chara spe and distance tweaks

Tha's why I just put some 236H CH emergency confirms, for the times when you chose to cancel 236H by something that is not leap in the corner, and still want to capitalize on the CH, or simply if you fear you won't be able to combo using leap because you didn't expect the counter. I completely agree than on a completely planned counter + you are confident on confirming on X chara with Leap in the corner, you should go for it (which is the reason why it's the combo highlighted in the wiki, and not those ones)

[Dreiko]

Basically you can work with the "situational circumstantial issues" that this hitconfirm has because the damage is just that worth it and you can cut it short in like 5 different spots to accommodate for food meter being low/screen placement/weight shenanigans and it'd STILL do way more damage than the alternatives. I fully believe endeavoring to master all the multitude of ways in which you can hitconfirm it in this manner is worth the effort. The only issue comes in neutral but you still get enough time to notice if your 236H didn't counter and simply air backdash after the initial 214K.

[Zephyrion22]

Basically you can work with the "situational circumstantial issues" that this hitconfirm has because the damage is just that worth it and you can cut it short in like 5 different spots to accommodate for food meter being low/screen placement/weight shenanigans and it'd STILL do way more damage than the alternatives. I fully believe endeavoring to master all the multitude of ways in which you can hitconfirm it in this manner is worth the effort. The only issue comes in neutral but you still get enough time to notice if your 236H didn't counter and simply air backdash after the initial 214K.

Which is exactly my point, the goal of the confirms I posted are to compliment the BnB for the situations in which said BnB is hard to implement, they are not "replacemen" or "scrub" combos. In the corner, unlike midscreen we have the option to confirm 236H CH in every situation, even if we preemptively canceled it by pretty much any special or super, and, squeezing the most damage possible when this happens is also a part of the optimizing process. Of course, as I've said if the counter is expected, go for the better route !

[shadow_nobody]

The video I posted uses the CH BD>Leap method, but instead of 214K(6) it replaces it with 214P(6) and it works everyone on everyone. The 2HS after the j.S>j.6HS keeps the opponent in front of you and will give red 623S most of the time. And if you want to change corners then you use 214K>j.S>j.6HS>2HS>5HS etc etc.

 When CH BD hits in the corner use 214K(4) instead to stay on the same side.

In a lot of situations 2HS is better for the fact that it has less pushback than 5S and you only lose about 1-2 damage because of scaling.

 

I also misspoke when I said that CH BD>Bull Bash>214K(6) works on everyone. Guess I wrote down the wrong characters for the wrong combo.

 

[Zephyrion22]

This whole thing about 236H CH in the corner was bugging me so I actually decided to test things out in the lab : turns out you can't do the leap confirms on a whole bunch of charas if they are fully cornered, I could only get the usual confirm to work on Potemkin, Bedman, Faust, Zato,Sin and Slayer. The others just seem to bounce off the corner too fast for any kind of classic Leap follow-up to work (might work on a few others since I tested this real quick, but if it does, it must be a pixel perfect thing)

Then again, the combo is perfectly stable if they are only a few inches away from the corner, but doesn't seem to work properly when they are fully cornered. Maybe my  lousy execution is playing tricks on me, so if you can check on your side so that we can get a clear  and definite answer, I'm all for it^^

The video I posted uses the CH BD>Leap method, but instead of 214K(6) it replaces it with 214P(6) and it works everyone on everyone. The 2HS after the j.S>j.6HS keeps the opponent in front of you and will give red 623S most of the time. And if you want to change corners then you use 214K>j.S>j.6HS>2HS>5HS etc etc.

 When CH BD hits in the corner use 214K(4) instead to stay on the same side.

In a lot of situations 2HS is better for the fact that it has less pushback than 5S and you only lose about 1-2 damage because of scaling.

 

I also misspoke when I said that CH BD>Bull Bash>214K(6) works on everyone. Guess I wrote down the wrong characters for the wrong combo.

 

Thanks again for the video, and putting nice combos in there, expecially some of the chara specifc combos ! 2H is actually  really nice for near corner 623 combos, the critical gets much more consistent !

[fogelstrom]

[Valas Phoenix]

V.D. set up into throw (1Frame window) it works on all the males characters in the game

Corner 5D>6>5S>5HS>236[HS]>236[HS]>2366[HS]>236[HS]>66>6HS

on certain char it works easier but that's char specific (easier means you actually don't have to do a dashing beak driver to set up correctly the V.D.)

here is the video I took as reference, it shows how it works https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBo3mpaH-yQ

my easier universal (male) version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCVjnNP9So4

dashless but char specific version (leo, bedman, venom, pot, faust) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOh0VefTbdg

alternative version of the previous dashless set up (slayer, ky, zato, faust, venom)
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cASAYhKHYoo

 

Basically if you don't have a meterless DP it's unblockable, it can be handy in specific situations and on specific characters. Certain characters can use their DP to avoid it (1F window before getting hit by V.D) and slayer has that backdash that can help him to avoid the set up partially (he still get hit as soon as his backdash ends by the last hit of V.D.), but it's something one has to know really well to avoid, and if you mix it up with the other set ups (rising jHS, far 2D, ecc ecc) I'm sure it's hard as hell to tell the difference and someone might try to backdash a legit V.D. set up or DP it. If an opponent try to jump it he gets hit 1 frame later by 6HS.

Why using this set up instead of the other well known high low? Let's guess we get the chance to set up a ball like this but we are running low on calories, we don't want to eat from far away since we're dropping our pressing, we don't want to do the regular V.D. since it's a "50/50" it might get blocked and you'll have to do what, attack while running low on cals? Nope, thank god you have this set up that grants you at least a knockdown, at best a corner combo from 6HS>DP>meterless corner stuff. It's a low risk low reward option, while the regular set up is a higher risk and higher reward option. Both are fine, but depending on the situation one might prefere one over the other. I repeat, those guys who have dps and knows this set up is coming can avoid it completely, but those who can't DP, don't have enough tension to have a Super Reversal or don't expect that blocking low/high isn't the right option gets throwed.

 

[edollarports]

Edit: My b, I thought you were actually overtaking the fireball, ignore me

[Valas Phoenix]

I didn't even got a chance to read your thoughts, I was editing my post ^^"

[faultydefense]

So you're not overtaking? It's throwing them while they're under the fireball or something? I'm assuming someone mashing throw can get you first or are you basically not in range until the moment you hit your button?

Either way, hotness.

[edollarports]

So you're not overtaking? It's throwing them while they're under the fireball or something? I'm assuming someone mashing throw can get you first or are you basically not in range until the moment you hit your button?

Either way, hotness.

It's the wallsplat unblockable. There's 0f throw invul during wallstick recovery, so you can meaty throw, and if they jump, fireball will hit them, etc.

I believe DP will beat you (backdash probably eats fireball), and they can throw you out of it if they win the subframe throw war.

[bibblybop]

I'm a little lost.... how are you throwing without dash braking with FD?

[Zephyrion22]

I'm a little lost.... how are you throwing without dash braking with FD?

you can throw without dash braking, you just need to stop running and throw. It's just harder because you have to slightly delay you throw for it to cancel the recovery of your dash while making sure you don't overstep and end up being thrown instead, Dash FD brake makes this easy since FD makes you stop running immediately, but you can do without it, or in this case, have to do without it !

 

[xlolxlolx]

you throw os

[shadow_nobody]

I was actually able to do dashless on almost everyone (except Pot/Leo/Bedman) by doing

5D>Run>Cl.S>236[H] x2> slight Walk 236[H]>236[H]>VD>214K(6)>Throw

I find that using leap let's me time throw a lot easier or bait DP if I want to.

[Valas Phoenix]

Could you kindly record it? I'd like to learn your version with the leap but without a video reference for me it's kinda hard to imagine how it works exactly (works only on males chars right? or the leap gets you closer than the run?)

 

[edollarports]

Ok, but the most important question: how the fuck do i hit someone with 5D?

jkjk I think the leap timing is a big deal though. being able to leap instead of run up helps the timing tremendously.

[Zephyrion22]

Ok, but the most important question: how the fuck do i hit someone with 5D?

jkjk I think the leap timing is a big deal though. being able to leap instead of run up helps the timing tremendously.

You can do the setup for any corner combo, as long as you hit the Beak Driver low enough to get the loop.  There is still the issue of the number of reps you can do and whether or not to delay the Voltic to hit on the right frames, but if you practice enough, it's perfectly possible !

[shadow_nobody]

I can't really get it again to record it since I'm not good at any of the set-ups really, but to be honest I honestly don't think it's that good. It requires 100% tension for it to be a real threat and at that point you can do so much already. However the set-up is great for going high low and baiting out a reversal.

It's also just getting the spacing and doing 214K(6) right after VD there is nothing else to it.

[Zephyrion22]

I can't really get it again to record it since I'm not good at any of the set-ups really, but to be honest I honestly don't think it's that good. It requires 100% tension for it to be a real threat and at that point you can do so much already. However the set-up is great for going high low and baiting out a reversal.

It's also just getting the spacing and doing 214K(6) right after VD there is nothing else to it.

Yeah, unlike Ramlethal, his unblockable is a situational thing out of a situational oki, you can set it like one match out of ten, but it exists and if you find yourself in the very rare situation it's actually worth it (against a char that can't escape it + 100 tension to confirm the throw as you said), well you can just go for it. Definitely not essential, it's more like a bonus or something

Also yeah,  it's just about having the right spacing but  said spacing is incredibly tight since the Voltic must hit within their jump startup frames (3f for a majority of the cast) while having at least one frame of leniency to let you throw in time. Most of the time the setups looks right when you record it but once being put to the test, the spacing is a lot more finnicky than it looks Also the big issue with Leap is that it kinda gives away the fact you're going for the UB throw which kinda defeats its purpose unless the opponent doesn't have a solution to counter it, just running makes it harder to time, but at least, the opponent won't know if you're going for the mixup or not !

[xlolxlolx]

that's not true, off the vault you can always go for low air dash empty jump low mixup, if they jump well they kinda just die

havent actually tested yet but you can probably make the garo spec work to some extent even without the fireball super to cover you, considering that sin is blessed with free wallstick slump off alot of combos and charged beak loop does like 90% of the damage in a combo, this is a very good way to get bear stun on tankier chars

[Valas Phoenix]

R.T.L. combo can be done in air, (midscreen).

on a jumping opponent JS>JK>jc>JS>J6HS>R.T.L>2HS(whiff)>6HS>2P>5S>5HS(1hit)>236K>236HS

it can also be done from 6P>5S>5HS(1hit)>6HS>JS ecc

From Bullbash on a jumping opponent, 214S>214K>JK>R.T.L.>2HS(whiff)>6HS ecc

 

[shadow_nobody]

Yeah I put the 6P route in a video showing it can be done with 6P>5S>5HS>236K>RTL 

I was actually working on making a video on the various RTL confirms and how 2P>5P>5H is the best follow up combo option when they have burst or if you're not confident in the confirm.