Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

RurouniLoneWolf

[Xrd] Sin Video Thread

Recommended Posts

Hmm.. You must've read wrong. I didn't suggest you should use f.S more, I actually said to use it adequately and not rely on it too much. If we're talking about elk hunt baiting, I only see the move as useful on neutral against projectiles, since it's not upper body invincible, but projectile invincible. The move's so obvious it shouldn't be thrown randomly on neutral. Even Ky's f.S actually beats it.

If we're talking about Beak driver range, 2S isn't ever too slow. It's spacing-dependent. Either way, stundipper is unsafe on block unless your opponent has 50%. Meaning that they're barely supposed to use the move. If they do, that's because they don't respect your stagger pressure.

I've never said to use j.P off of pole vault, though. So we're using it the same way. It can even beat out Ky's j.K when used as a rising normal, pretty amazing. j.6HS is great as a jump back air-to-air (lots of counterhits) and used with pole vault.

I also didn't think of using 3K against slide moves, because I'm still pretty bad at spacing it. So thank you for this tip .

The reply you quoted was aimed at someone suggesting that though so while you may not have said that, you replied to a reply aimed at someone who did. That's the context of that reply. You can't just reply to it as though it's a standalone statement. Basically I was saying the same thing you were there so you needn't jump on it. Same with the elk hunt part, I was replying to Destin saying that using yolo elk hunt is good. Again we're agreeing here lol.

 

 

Finally, yes, I mentioned that people would yolo stun dipper when they had meter to rc it above, so that too is already covered.

 

 

3K is pretty long, about 2D range or so. Also the slides have the nice element of coming at you so just timing it right is usually enough. It's a great and often overlooked normal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I mean, I don't know what to say. Ky's yolo slide is absolutely horrible, especially now that it lost the Frc. Yours at least has a semblance of a purpose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I mean, I don't know what to say. Ky's yolo slide is absolutely horrible, especially now that it lost the Frc. Yours at least has a semblance of a purpose.

Basically, vs-Ky-neutral goes something like:

Stunedge loses to Elk Hunt,

Elk hunt loses to greed sever/stun dipper

236H and 5S both beat greed sever, 236H also beats stunedge but they both get low profiled by stun dipper

214S is too slow so stun dipper on reaction can hit you out of it from a certain range and closer even when you cancel other attacks into 214S

2S stops most moves but is too slow to use successfully from a certain range and closer and the move that is fast enough (5S) can be low profiled, creating a "danger zone" where you can't press any buttons without risking death.

 

If you can manage to stay out of this danger zone (mid-close range) then the danger of stun dipper is diminished since in the mid-far range the first hit whiffs while in the mid range 3K/2S has enough time to become active and not be hit out of its startup.

 

 

(oh and this all of course is when he can RC the stun dipper, I don't think I should keep saying it but making sure lol)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stunedge loses to Elk Hunt,

 

Elk hunt loses to greed sever/stun dipper

(Which both get punished on block)

 

236H and 5S both beat greed sever, 236H also beats stunedge but they both get low profiled by stun dipper

(or you can block, and beat greed sever/stun dipper.  so ky should be using more stunedge, but you have a safe, very important, move that beats it!)

 

214S is too slow so stun dipper on reaction can hit you out of it from a certain range and closer even when you cancel other attacks into 214S

(Then it's probably not a good choice)

 

2S stops most moves but is too slow to use successfully from a certain range and closer and the move that is fast enough (5S) can be low profiled, creating a "danger zone" where you can't press any buttons without risking death.

(5s can be low profiled by a unsafe on block move... That's like saying you can't hit him because he could dp your limb, so you lose)

 

 

I'm not even saying Sin beats ky or whatever, I'm just saying if two punishable moves are destroying you, you need to play more conservative.  Greed sever and stun dipper are good moves in their own right, but being thrown out to beat neutral pokes should not be their primary focus.  I mean, grand viper shits all over a lot of moves too, but it's so dangerous I would hope one is not using it too often unless they are completely awesome and have a huge penis.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your mention of the move being unsafe or punishable is null and void because as I clarified thrice (or maybe four times) already this is regarding Ky when he has 50 meter to rc the stun dipper. The issue is he gets in easily even when you bait it.

 

 

Also, nobody said they were being "destroyed" here. The original original reply was about fS being all you need to do to win the matchup and I was refuting that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your mention of the move being unsafe or punishable is null and void because as I clarified thrice (or maybe four times) already this is regarding Ky when he has 50 meter to rc the stun dipper. The issue is he gets in easily even when you bait it.

 

 

Also, nobody said they were being "destroyed" here. The original original reply was about fS being all you need to do to win the matchup and I was refuting that.

With 50% meter, most of the cast can get in pretty easily.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

6 sounds about right. I would actually prefer to do either 4 and then 214K [6] followups or do 5 into Voltec Dein setup so that you're close enough. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Leo(Dogura) vs J.T.(Sin), somewhat older footage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLwCcyGEeLU&t=1h30m41s

 

Unsure if there are matches of him earlier, certainly more matches of him later in the video

 

J.T & Gaku JPN Netplay replays
Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88lH-5osGOs

Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1OldVuUeuE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it character specific or is it doable on every character, albeit with different timings?

 

Beak Driver loops work on everyone. Bigger chars are easier to do more Beak Drivers w/o microdashes. Timings are all the same. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Beak Driver loops work on everyone. Bigger chars are easier to do more Beak Drivers w/o microdashes. Timings are all the same. 

More specifically, beak driver loops work on everyone, but the timing of the initial hit is different for each character. They have to hit the wall close enough to the ground that you get the wall slam animation and the sit down on the ground animation and because everyone falls at different speeds plus the fact that everyone has different heights you have to practice on many different characters. Once successfully hit with the first beak driver at the right height, the rest of the loop will have the same timings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

More specifically, beak driver loops work on everyone, but the timing of the initial hit is different for each character. They have to hit the wall close enough to the ground that you get the wall slam animation and the sit down on the ground animation and because everyone falls at different speeds plus the fact that everyone has different heights you have to practice on many different characters. Once successfully hit with the first beak driver at the right height, the rest of the loop will have the same timings.

 

Well the thing is that the timing of the initial hit varies immensely less because of character hitboxes and fall speeds but the time of when you wait after the previous hit, they could be falling from a really high 214S or a low one, after a dust, after a throw RC, etc. That has less to do with muscle memory and more to do with eyeballing when they're about to reach the ground. There's a point where you want to release it and it'll work on most if not all. Of course you don't want to wait too long for big chars like Pot since he hits the ground faster of big hurtbox. I think it just takes a trained eye and experience for that part. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

6 sounds about right. I would actually prefer to do either 4 and then 214K [6] followups or do 5 into Voltec Dein setup so that you're close enough. 

 

I was still able to get 214K [6] followups after 6 Drivers. Crazy damage for no meter off of 5D.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

can anyone explain to me how wall stick works?

 

it seems that off a corner 5D,

 

If I hit them while they start sliding down, it forces a wall stick/ corner crumple.

 

but If i hit then before they start sliding, they can tech out...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

can anyone explain to me how wall stick works?

 

it seems that off a corner 5D,

 

If I hit them while they start sliding down, it forces a wall stick/ corner crumple.

 

but If i hit then before they start sliding, they can tech out...

Basically hitstun translates as wallstick but there's some residual hitstun from the 5D itself which allows them to slide some without recovering. Then, if they slide enough to touch the floor the normal amount of hitstun which would have been there is prolonged by a set value. The beak driver loops work by abusing this touch-the-ground-hitstun which seems to not be affected at all by the regular hitstun decay that every other things is affected by.

 

 

They tech when you hit them before they're become low enough to the ground so before they touch the floor the hitstun of your move ends and they pop out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×