Dreiko Report post Posted January 29, 2015 Hmm.. You must've read wrong. I didn't suggest you should use f.S more, I actually said to use it adequately and not rely on it too much. If we're talking about elk hunt baiting, I only see the move as useful on neutral against projectiles, since it's not upper body invincible, but projectile invincible. The move's so obvious it shouldn't be thrown randomly on neutral. Even Ky's f.S actually beats it. If we're talking about Beak driver range, 2S isn't ever too slow. It's spacing-dependent. Either way, stundipper is unsafe on block unless your opponent has 50%. Meaning that they're barely supposed to use the move. If they do, that's because they don't respect your stagger pressure. I've never said to use j.P off of pole vault, though. So we're using it the same way. It can even beat out Ky's j.K when used as a rising normal, pretty amazing. j.6HS is great as a jump back air-to-air (lots of counterhits) and used with pole vault. I also didn't think of using 3K against slide moves, because I'm still pretty bad at spacing it. So thank you for this tip . The reply you quoted was aimed at someone suggesting that though so while you may not have said that, you replied to a reply aimed at someone who did. That's the context of that reply. You can't just reply to it as though it's a standalone statement. Basically I was saying the same thing you were there so you needn't jump on it. Same with the elk hunt part, I was replying to Destin saying that using yolo elk hunt is good. Again we're agreeing here lol. Finally, yes, I mentioned that people would yolo stun dipper when they had meter to rc it above, so that too is already covered. 3K is pretty long, about 2D range or so. Also the slides have the nice element of coming at you so just timing it right is usually enough. It's a great and often overlooked normal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RurouniLoneWolf Report post Posted February 2, 2015 FT5 BananaKen (Elphelt) vs Spooky (Sin)FT5 BT | MarlinPie (Zato) vs Spooky (Sin) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Destin Report post Posted February 2, 2015 I mean, I don't know what to say. Ky's yolo slide is absolutely horrible, especially now that it lost the Frc. Yours at least has a semblance of a purpose. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dreiko Report post Posted February 2, 2015 I mean, I don't know what to say. Ky's yolo slide is absolutely horrible, especially now that it lost the Frc. Yours at least has a semblance of a purpose. Basically, vs-Ky-neutral goes something like: Stunedge loses to Elk Hunt, Elk hunt loses to greed sever/stun dipper 236H and 5S both beat greed sever, 236H also beats stunedge but they both get low profiled by stun dipper 214S is too slow so stun dipper on reaction can hit you out of it from a certain range and closer even when you cancel other attacks into 214S 2S stops most moves but is too slow to use successfully from a certain range and closer and the move that is fast enough (5S) can be low profiled, creating a "danger zone" where you can't press any buttons without risking death. If you can manage to stay out of this danger zone (mid-close range) then the danger of stun dipper is diminished since in the mid-far range the first hit whiffs while in the mid range 3K/2S has enough time to become active and not be hit out of its startup. (oh and this all of course is when he can RC the stun dipper, I don't think I should keep saying it but making sure lol) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Destin Report post Posted February 3, 2015 Stunedge loses to Elk Hunt, Elk hunt loses to greed sever/stun dipper (Which both get punished on block) 236H and 5S both beat greed sever, 236H also beats stunedge but they both get low profiled by stun dipper (or you can block, and beat greed sever/stun dipper. so ky should be using more stunedge, but you have a safe, very important, move that beats it!) 214S is too slow so stun dipper on reaction can hit you out of it from a certain range and closer even when you cancel other attacks into 214S (Then it's probably not a good choice) 2S stops most moves but is too slow to use successfully from a certain range and closer and the move that is fast enough (5S) can be low profiled, creating a "danger zone" where you can't press any buttons without risking death. (5s can be low profiled by a unsafe on block move... That's like saying you can't hit him because he could dp your limb, so you lose) I'm not even saying Sin beats ky or whatever, I'm just saying if two punishable moves are destroying you, you need to play more conservative. Greed sever and stun dipper are good moves in their own right, but being thrown out to beat neutral pokes should not be their primary focus. I mean, grand viper shits all over a lot of moves too, but it's so dangerous I would hope one is not using it too often unless they are completely awesome and have a huge penis. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dreiko Report post Posted February 3, 2015 Your mention of the move being unsafe or punishable is null and void because as I clarified thrice (or maybe four times) already this is regarding Ky when he has 50 meter to rc the stun dipper. The issue is he gets in easily even when you bait it. Also, nobody said they were being "destroyed" here. The original original reply was about fS being all you need to do to win the matchup and I was refuting that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Destin Report post Posted February 3, 2015 Your mention of the move being unsafe or punishable is null and void because as I clarified thrice (or maybe four times) already this is regarding Ky when he has 50 meter to rc the stun dipper. The issue is he gets in easily even when you bait it. Also, nobody said they were being "destroyed" here. The original original reply was about fS being all you need to do to win the matchup and I was refuting that. With 50% meter, most of the cast can get in pretty easily. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RurouniLoneWolf Report post Posted February 3, 2015 Take this conversation to the gameplay discussion thread guys. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dirty Magic Report post Posted February 3, 2015 Or make out and post the video to youtube so atleast it's relevant-ish (y) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mack_a_tsar Report post Posted February 8, 2015 OTG / YRC Airthrow Combos http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25435911 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwdptDjwKrQ My IK setups (pretty basic stuff compared to combos already posted here though) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtZpNE8EoRU Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Biscuits Report post Posted February 16, 2015 Gaku Sin vs Fino Venom FT3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G50cEhiO_r4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RurouniLoneWolf Report post Posted February 17, 2015 Here are the rest of the FT3s from Biscuits' stream on Saturday. Lots of really good footage. Be sure to give it a watch, guys! Gaku vs FAB (Potemkin) FT3 Gaku vs Hase (Slayer) FT3 Gaku vs Endou (Chipp) FT3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TITANIUM BEAST!!! Report post Posted February 21, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4KlbwW1r8c Max number of Beak Drivers with no RC? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robawtninja Report post Posted February 21, 2015 6 sounds about right. I would actually prefer to do either 4 and then 214K [6] followups or do 5 into Voltec Dein setup so that you're close enough. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RentalBlackout Report post Posted February 21, 2015 Is it character specific or is it doable on every character, albeit with different timings? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RentalBlackout Report post Posted February 23, 2015 Leo(Dogura) vs J.T.(Sin), somewhat older footage https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLwCcyGEeLU&t=1h30m41s Unsure if there are matches of him earlier, certainly more matches of him later in the video J.T & Gaku JPN Netplay replays Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88lH-5osGOs Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1OldVuUeuE Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robawtninja Report post Posted February 23, 2015 Is it character specific or is it doable on every character, albeit with different timings? Beak Driver loops work on everyone. Bigger chars are easier to do more Beak Drivers w/o microdashes. Timings are all the same. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NagorbMan Report post Posted February 24, 2015 Beak Driver loops work on everyone. Bigger chars are easier to do more Beak Drivers w/o microdashes. Timings are all the same. More specifically, beak driver loops work on everyone, but the timing of the initial hit is different for each character. They have to hit the wall close enough to the ground that you get the wall slam animation and the sit down on the ground animation and because everyone falls at different speeds plus the fact that everyone has different heights you have to practice on many different characters. Once successfully hit with the first beak driver at the right height, the rest of the loop will have the same timings. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RisingStars Report post Posted February 25, 2015 I was watching the fab vs gaku match... and man did I learn a lot of things! The announcers are quite a bit annoying though... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robawtninja Report post Posted February 25, 2015 More specifically, beak driver loops work on everyone, but the timing of the initial hit is different for each character. They have to hit the wall close enough to the ground that you get the wall slam animation and the sit down on the ground animation and because everyone falls at different speeds plus the fact that everyone has different heights you have to practice on many different characters. Once successfully hit with the first beak driver at the right height, the rest of the loop will have the same timings. Well the thing is that the timing of the initial hit varies immensely less because of character hitboxes and fall speeds but the time of when you wait after the previous hit, they could be falling from a really high 214S or a low one, after a dust, after a throw RC, etc. That has less to do with muscle memory and more to do with eyeballing when they're about to reach the ground. There's a point where you want to release it and it'll work on most if not all. Of course you don't want to wait too long for big chars like Pot since he hits the ground faster of big hurtbox. I think it just takes a trained eye and experience for that part. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TITANIUM BEAST!!! Report post Posted March 5, 2015 6 sounds about right. I would actually prefer to do either 4 and then 214K [6] followups or do 5 into Voltec Dein setup so that you're close enough. I was still able to get 214K [6] followups after 6 Drivers. Crazy damage for no meter off of 5D. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RisingStars Report post Posted March 6, 2015 can anyone explain to me how wall stick works? it seems that off a corner 5D, If I hit them while they start sliding down, it forces a wall stick/ corner crumple. but If i hit then before they start sliding, they can tech out... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dreiko Report post Posted March 6, 2015 can anyone explain to me how wall stick works? it seems that off a corner 5D, If I hit them while they start sliding down, it forces a wall stick/ corner crumple. but If i hit then before they start sliding, they can tech out... Basically hitstun translates as wallstick but there's some residual hitstun from the 5D itself which allows them to slide some without recovering. Then, if they slide enough to touch the floor the normal amount of hitstun which would have been there is prolonged by a set value. The beak driver loops work by abusing this touch-the-ground-hitstun which seems to not be affected at all by the regular hitstun decay that every other things is affected by. They tech when you hit them before they're become low enough to the ground so before they touch the floor the hitstun of your move ends and they pop out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mizuiro-kitsune Report post Posted March 20, 2015 Fist piece of "Sin 1.1" Footge I found. What do y'all think? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVFUpB820nU&feature=youtu.be&t=10m33s Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dreiko Report post Posted March 22, 2015 https://youtu.be/JA4d2TeUfE0?t=4m35s More Sin. (vs Venom god Fino no less :D) edit: Whoa jD counter causes a weird floor-bounce now. Neat! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites