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TAI-X

Street Fighter V announced

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i remember a 4gamer interview with various top players pre-evo....and they saying sf4 ended up as a much more defensive game due to various mechanics decisions. Daigo sugested guard bars or they taking out the option selects to tech throws even when crunched (like the older sf games). I remember tokido sugesting charge partitions or reverse charges ([6]4 / [8]2) too as ways to make the game more dinamic/less turtle for charge characters.

 

If the "guard break" showed in the video is really a guard bars that can be broken, i think it's a step in the right direction. It may create opportunity for 100% guard break blockstrings, but a "just defend" system like alpha3/garou/melty can easily deal with it (and c'mon, it was already in alpha3, no reason for them to not keep this possibility in mind).

 

The activation thing that looks like VS darkforce/ blazblue overdrive/ KI instinct mode / etc looks interesting. But there's too little info to guess anything right now.

 

Art style have gone in the same line as sf4/mcv3/sfxt , what is a let down for a lot of people. But at the same time, the majority of the blatant anathomy mistakes are no more, it looks way better.

 

What i want now is info on mechanics side and some idea in music style.

 

edit: adding source to the citation

http://www.4gamer.net/games/225/G022539/20140704102/index_2.html

Daigo: For me, in Ultra Street Fighter 4 I just hold icon_cursor_1b.gif(crouch block) all day long. (laughs)

4Gamer: So delayed standing has lowered the dangers of being thrown and instead of getting counter hit while trying to tech throws, it's often better to just be thrown.

Daigo: Well originally the throw break mechanic was way too powerful. Crouch teching had very little risk, and you always had the option of backdashing to escape. The aggressor had very little expected returns.

Kazunoko: But crouch teching is synonymous with Street Fighter 4 series, isn't it?

Tokido: Well now it's become common sense that crouch tech exists. But its unfortunate for those people that came from games where you had to hold back + HP to tech throws.

Itazan: The reason its so strong is because crouch tech can be used with light attacks. Most are 3 frame moves that are difficult to interrupt. Even if you were to make the correct read and counter a crouch tech, your success is highly dependent on the opponent's timing so it's very difficult.

 

Daigo: Yes, it's dependent on the opponent's mood. In older games, close range fighting was much more dramatic. Personally, I think it's okay to lose half my life if my opponent guesses correctly that I will crouch tech.

Momochi: Even if you guess correctly that your opponent will crouch tech, the aggressor has very few options. In Street Fighter x Tekken, launch attacks were invincible to low attacks so it was not only highly effective to counter crouch tech, but very fun to play mind games in these situations.

Daigo: Evil Ryu's far standing MK is similar in that regard. While the return is very small, it's still a good move considering there is zero stress required in reading the opponent's crouch tech. It would be great if all characters had a similar low risk/low return move against crouch tech, but this topic has nothing to do with the new systems.

 

(...)

Bonchan: It would be very bad if charge characters were made strong. If everyone were playing to win, no one would make the first move.

 

Tokido: If that's the case then charge character players would be resigned to weak characters. Instead, why don't we introduce forward charging moves?

Daigo: I'll put my neck out there and say it at my own risk, but I honestly feel that charge characters in Street Fighter 4 must inevitably be weak. The ease of control given to beginner players must somehow be balanced out. Another solution would be to give advanced players the ability to perform charge partitioning. Charge a little then walk forward, charge up again and unleash a sonic boom or dash straight. I'm sure users would be happy with this ability.

Bonchan: Wouldn't this be a little too broken?

Daigo: To balance it out you could lower their damage and change other things. The following example applies to Evil Ryu in the current meta: Against charge characters that have moves to pass through fireballs, the character with the fireball must attack. Isn't this like approaching an enemy archer who has his bow drawn at you? Isn't that strange?

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Music style will probably still suck.

It already sounds like Hideyuki Fukasawa's horrid work. Bad dubstep/techno/fake orchestra/clearly synthesized jazz/rock ruined the entirety of Capcom's recent fighting game OSTs.

 

They should have gotten T's Music, the guys who did the OST for Sengoku Basara and Evil Zone, to do SF4's OST.

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They should have gotten T's Music, the guys who did the OST for Sengoku Basara and Evil Zone, to do SF4's OST.

Even more ideally, they should bring Yoko Shimomura back for a round of new iconic themes.

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First unedited match footage.

 

Not much to say, other than that it's Street Fighter 4.5. The bloodless stage "fatality" against Chun Li was like something out of a parody video. I am disappointed, but hardly surprised that Capcom is so far playing this sequel as safe and risk-averse as they possibly could.

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Ok, I didn't like SF4 much at all, but i'm going to have to be the one to say "haters gonna hate" on you, TAI-X. This game is leaving a very good first impression. Chun seems like mostly motions again, characters have varying EX meters, Ryu did a guard break on Chun, this power-up mode seems to change a lot about how they play and upgrade their super, Charlie's back, the environmental destruction opens the stage some and allows for some extra touches like the noodle bowl, and there was something like perfect blocking in place.

 

This game has yet to show anything that seems as risk-averse as SF4, which really just wanted to be SF2 with a bunch of characters and slowed down.

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Gameplay looks...weird right now. Either the game is even slower, or it's Ryu's walk speed + the parries being back. Hopefully this gets fixed as time goes on, because I don't want to play something as slow as JoJo All Stars.

 

Also looking forward to Wesker-I mean Charlie.

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Ok, I didn't like SF4 much at all, but i'm going to have to be the one to say "haters gonna hate" on you, TAI-X. This game is leaving a very good first impression.

It should be obvious to anyone from the footage that fundamentally, the game is still SFIV at its core. Tacking on a few new secondary mechanics and cranking the speed up a notch hasn't changed that. The slow walk speeds, separate Revenge and EX meters, link-based combos, and non-prediction instant reversals are all still in place. Even the graphical style is just a shinier version of SFIV's. Now, I would say that the mechanical changes being made from SFIV are steps in the right direction, but none of them are big enough to be felt in any major way to anyone who's not obsessively picking them apart for "metagame" purposes.

 

Street Fighter II felt like a completely different experience from SF1, and Alpha from II, and so on, even if you only played the series on the most casual of levels. While SFV is at best, an Accent Core version of SFIV as far as we've seen.

 

And goofy stage finishers aren't welcome "extra touches" if they look like something out of a Robot Chicken skit. See Real Bout Fatal Fury for how to do bloodless stage "fatalities" right.

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It should be obvious to anyone from the footage that fundamentally, the game is still SFIV at its core. Tacking on a few new secondary mechanics and cranking the speed up a notch hasn't changed that. The slow walk speeds, separate Revenge and EX meters, link-based combos, and non-prediction instant reversals are all still in place. Now, I would say that the mechanical changes being made from SFIV are steps in the right direction, but none of them are big enough to be felt in any major way to anyone who's not obsessively picking them apart for "metagame" purposes.

 

Street Fighter II felt like a completely different experience from SF1, and Alpha from II, and so on, even if you only played the series on the most casual of levels. While SFV is at best, an Accent Core version of SFIV as far as we've seen.

 

And goofy stage finishers aren't welcome "extra touches" if they look like something out of a Robot Chicken skit. See Real Bout Fatal Fury for how to do bloodless stage "fatalities" right.

 

I can agree with the slow walk speed and reversals, but, it's rather nice that EX and Revenge are separate, SF always had link-based combos aside from certain special supers/modes you could temporarily enter as well.

 

The SF games did feel different from one another, except 4, which was trying to emulate 2 I guess. Watching 5 felt more different than watching 4, which is pretty linear and slow, and it really feels like 5 is what 4 should have been.

 

They fought in a restaurant, and Chun got food on her. I don't see what's so odd or bothersome about this. It's like getting mad if she got wet after being made to break the glass on an aquarium. It certainly could have been sillier, like she could have ended up with condiments all over her face or something.

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I hope that BGM was a placeholder.  Yeesh!  I'll take MvC2 smooth jazz over that any day.  (For the record, I thought SFIV actually had some pretty decent tunes.)

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The game is still in very early development lol. I don't know how people are getting offended by this...

SFIV had limb based hit detection originally when they showed it off to some people, the development cycle of a game is long and can (and almost always does) bring many changes.

 

Capcom said that they are monitoring the community reaction to things and will be taking that into account. Y'all can keep on going with the gloom and doom if you want but it's sorta moot when the game is this early in development. lol

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Outside of the placement of the Revenge meter, did ANYTHING we saw in the initial in-game reveal of SFIV way back in 2007 (also with Ryu vs. Chun Li on a China stage, funnily enough) end up not carrying over to the final product? No, it didn't, and this will be no different. At most, they'll tweak some minor variables like frame data here and there before the game goes gold, but they're not going to shuffle around entire mechanics at this point.

 

"It's still early in development" is a weak-ass apologetic excuse that only ends up holding any water in very exceptional cases when a game goes through protracted development hell. We've also seen quite a few games that ended up significantly worse at release than they looked in early footage, notable examples being Dark Souls II and Watch Dogs. When a game is complete enough for the developers to show off unedited, live play footage before an audience, the structure of it is already very well set in stone.

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Not to say that people aren't possibly jumping the gun in some of their complaints, but TAI-X has a point.  The fact that they have a playable build up and running is clear evidence that the core gameplay engine is pretty far in development.  We'll likely see lots of adjustments before the game's finished, and of course a lot of the visual elements are placeholders, but we're probably already past the point of being able to realistically expect any major overhauls to the gameplay.

Also, at the risk of sounding overly cynical, when was the last time Capcom did anything to make anyone believe they care at all about what their fans want?  Just look at SFxTekken: Aside from making the health bars less hideous, how many early complaints about that game did the developers address before shipping the final product?

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I'm not apologizing for Capcom lol. The game is in early development, it's a fact. You know that Capcom has flat out scrapped a game in beta (Mega Man Legends 3), and shitcanned a game that was 90% done to restart (Resident Evil 2), right?

 

I also gave you a pretty big example of a mechanic that changed within the development of SFIV. If the game comes out and it's poor, so be it. But I'm not going to judge the game based on a fuckin alpha gameplay demo. 

 

I have one question though- Why the fuck are you so mad? Like seriously calm down. Do you need a nap or something?

<edit> Capcom has also scrapped a FG after loctest and threw the IP to Ono to have him make something out of the shitfest (That's how we got Capcom Fighting Jam, in all of it's glory).

 

If we want to ask "What has Capcom given us lately" They actually just released an HD port of the Resident Evil remake that turned out really well.

 

Once again- If the game turns out to be of poor quality on release sure whatever I won't buy it. I'm not going to poop my pants getting angry about something that's not final though lol

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I'm not apologizing for Capcom lol. The game is in early development, it's a fact. You know that Capcom has flat out scrapped a game in beta (Mega Man Legends 3), and shitcanned a game that was 90% done to restart (Resident Evil 2), right?

 

I also gave you a pretty big example of a mechanic that changed within the development of SFIV. If the game comes out and it's poor, so be it. But I'm not going to judge the game based on a fuckin alpha gameplay demo. 

 

I have one question though- Why the fuck are you so mad? Like seriously calm down. Do you need a nap or something?

<edit> Capcom has also scrapped a FG after loctest and threw the IP to Ono to have him make something out of the shitfest (That's how we got Capcom Fighting Jam, in all of it's glory).

 

If we want to ask "What has Capcom given us lately" They actually just released an HD port of the Resident Evil remake that turned out really well.

 

Once again- If the game turns out to be of poor quality on release sure whatever I won't buy it. I'm not going to poop my pants getting angry about something that's not final though lol

 

I don't know if the bulk of your post is aimed at me or TAI-X, but I'm not mad about SFV at all.  My relationship with SF is akin to a childhood friend you continue to hang out with mainly out of tradition despite not particularly liking the person they grew into.  I don't have much at all in the way of an emotional investment in how the game turns out.  I'm just playing devil's advocate and pointing out that, based on Capcom's recent behavior over the last five or six years, the whole bit about them designing the game around fans' feedback is probably hot air from the PR department (more accurately, the handful of overworked, near-suicidal community moderators and spokesmen they employ in lieu of an actual PR department).

The games you listed are actually good examples to illustrate what I mean.  RE2 came out sixteen years ago back when Capcom was a very different company; they've since refused to develop an updated remake of that game despite virtually the entire survival horror fanbase begging for one.  MM Legends 3 was canceled late in development even as fans created a petition with over a hundred thousand signatures to show how badly they wanted it.  And while the HD REmake was a nice surprise, it's not something anybody was really asking for.  Then of course there's RE6, where Capcom applied approximately zero percent of the critical feedback they received on RE5.  And do I even need to mention the bafflingly surreal series of events that led to the demise of the Darkstalkers franchise?

The people in charge of making major creative and financial decisions at Capcom do not (typically) listen to their consumerbase — or possibly anymore.  This fact is so well documented at this point that you can't call it an exaggeration.  I say it now with no more emotion than I'd put into an offhanded observation about the weather.

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I agree with everything White Man said.

 

Also, I ain't even mad. I used to be more emotionally invested in the SF series, but that faded away with SFIV when it was clear the games were headed down a path I wasn't particularly fond of. I don't play on the competitive circuit or make any money off my gaming, so I have no horse in this race. At this point, anything Capcom does to spoil or neglect their legacy IPs is met with a sigh and bemused mild disappointment from me, rather than seething resentment.

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Given the way the Japanese industry is going these days, I wouldn't even be surprised anymore if Cloud, Sephiroth and Lightning ended up in this.

 

I mean, Bad Box Art Mega Man as a playable character already happened. Not much lower they can sink.

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It's more than likely going to be alternate costumes designed by Nomura.

 

Beltanzipper Fighter 5, anyone?

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It's more than likely going to be alternate costumes designed by Nomura.

 

Beltanzipper Fighter 5, anyone?

 

Well, it seems like Capcom is really trying to have a story with SF5. Maybe the collaboration with Square-Enix is to have them write a real story mode for SF5? I wonder what S-E wants in exchange though, besides money. FF character in SF5? Costume design?

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This reminds me that the new version of Sengoku Basara is going to have multiple third-party collabs, like with Tales of Zestiria. And if a more obscure game series that is Basara can do that, then SF can most probably do it, as well.

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