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RurouniLoneWolf

[Xrd] Sin Kiske Q&A/FAQ Thread

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Well your question sorta answers itself. If it crosses up then you have to block the other way. Nothing weird about it. Unless you mean when RTL crosses through the opponent after they block it. Which in that case will depend if the opponent is still stuck in blockstun since you can't get crossed up if you're already in blockstun. Because of the blockstun of the super and the small window of dashing again it usually won't cross opponent up right after they block it. So I would say it doesn't matter but it's not fast or anything so it's fairly easy to react and switch directions on blocking. 

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if you had to explain sin play style,what would it be? 

Long range poking character with uber situational (but high damage) confirms.

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interesting. I remember BLEED used to be a Johnny player? Guess the 2 characters are pretty similar...

Sin reminds me more of Jam than anything, with his gauge reliant special-canceling into other specials. Jam's thing with her emblems letting her cancel her K specials into themselves/eachother, letting her triple-helicopter-kick you to the top of the screen like a pantyshot-infused DI Volcanic Viper, was kinda similar I guess.

god, Jam was fun to mess around with against easy AI.

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Sin reminds me more of Jam than anything, with his gauge reliant special-canceling into other specials. Jam's thing with her emblems letting her cancel her K specials into themselves/eachother, letting her triple-helicopter-kick you to the top of the screen like a pantyshot-infused DI Volcanic Viper, was kinda similar I guess.

god, Jam was fun to mess around with against easy AI.

While I understand why you'd make this parallel, there is no more than that when it comes to similarities. I think it stops there.

Sin plays a lot more like Johnny than Jam by miles.

First, they're midrange characters with strong neutral games. But they can get fairly well punished if they whiff moves.

Second, they rely on stagger pressure and frame traps to open up their opponents. Their mixup game itself is pretty poor. Elk hunt being + on block and Johnny's mist cancels have the same use for each respective character's pressure game.

Third, Pole Vault is very much used for positioning and getting around moves more than mixups. Like Johnny's Divine Blade and Killer Joker. I know that Jam has a hop too, but it's mostly for mixups from what I've seen. Correct me if I'm wrong.

EDIT: I forgot to mention Beak Driver and Mist Finer. They have the same uses on neutral, IMO. Cutting off projectiles, outpoking the opponent, risky as hell when it's whiffed.

Both can be charged/held, AND cancelled.

EDIT 2: I also forgot to mention their main overheads... Both don't rely on standing overheads. They rely on aerial moves. Specifically Sin's j.D and Johnny's TK Ensenga.

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Are the combos in the combo thread up to date?   I notice the last time it was edited is back in December.  If not, where can I find a semi-comprehensive list of (optimal) sin combos and confirms?

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While I understand why you'd make this parallel, there is no more than that when it comes to similarities. I think it stops there.

Sin plays a lot more like Johnny than Jam by miles.

First, they're midrange characters with strong neutral games. But they can get fairly well punished if they whiff moves.

Second, they rely on stagger pressure and frame traps to open up their opponents. Their mixup game itself is pretty poor. Elk hunt being + on block and Johnny's mist cancels have the same use for each respective character's pressure game.

Third, Pole Vault is very much used for positioning and getting around moves more than mixups. Like Johnny's Divine Blade and Killer Joker. I know that Jam has a hop too, but it's mostly for mixups from what I've seen. Correct me if I'm wrong.

EDIT: I forgot to mention Beak Driver and Mist Finer. They have the same uses on neutral, IMO. Cutting off projectiles, outpoking the opponent, risky as hell when it's whiffed.

Both can be charged/held, AND cancelled.

EDIT 2: I also forgot to mention their main overheads... Both don't rely on standing overheads. They rely on aerial moves. Specifically Sin's j.D and Johnny's TK Ensenga.

 

Don't forget that they both have a secondary trait that helps augment their strengths as a character: Coins and Calories. One can be refilled and one can't but the more that you have the better!

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Don't forget that they both have a secondary trait that helps augment their strengths as a character: Coins and Calories. One can be refilled and one can't but the more that you have the better!

While I can somewhat agree this point is moot when it comes to comparing Sin with other characters of the roster. Jam's specific secondary trait is more similar to Sin's calories than Johnny's coins. Her seals/symbols allow her to cancel specials into specials like Sin does.

They're rechargeable, also.

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I would say beak driver is much more versatile since Sin can cancel it on block and charging it makes it actually better while Johnny won't like to use it as much just to outpoke during neutral and definitely not when he has a coin level stored for it. Sin's of course costs food but he can always eat whenever he lands a hit while Johnny has a finite amount of coins on him. On the other hand once Johnny touches you with a lvl 2 mist finer, everything confirms into a ton of damage so he gets what he deserves to for being patient. This all mainly goes to beak driver being similar to mist finer in neutral. It's more versatile and overall way better in neutral since you can use it in many more situations I think. It loses out in combos unless you spend meter or can land one of those rare hits that lead into clean hit 623S meterless which won't happen nearly as often as Johnny in +R will get to do good combos off of meh starters thanks to finer.

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What is the most effective sequence of things to do out of a blocked 214S from across the screen in order to maintain pressure after a command hop?

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What is the most effective sequence of things to do out of a blocked 214S from across the screen in order to maintain pressure after a command hop?

 

You don't actually maintain pressure by cancelling 214S into leap as the recovery for either leap is at least as long as the blockstun of 214S.  As such, your opponent can react and answer (punish) your options from leap as soon as you're able to act, effectively putting you both at neutral.  You should generally treat cancelling blocked specials into leap as a way to maintain your positioning and screen advantage rather than as a way to continue pressure, as leap allows you to easily adjust your horizontal position back to Sin's favorable range (f.S, 236H).

 

That's not to say you should never cancel blocked specials into leap in an attempt to attack from a different angle.  You just need to be aware that your opponent can easily use their anti-air options (6Ps, air throws, DPs, etc.) just as you regain control of Sin, so your choices should be based on how your opponent can react to this situation.  If they don't anti-air you, feel free to mix them up and continue your pressure game.  If your opponent knows the match-up, more than likely they're gonna' anti-air you.  Your options then depend on your opponent's character and their anti-air options.  With this in mind, you can try things like spacing j.S so it's safe from most AA attempts or using j.D to alter your momentum so they whiff their AA.  You can even use j.214S to hit them out of AAs that are fast but lack upper-body invincibility, like certain 5Ps.  Unfortunately, punishing AA attempts as Sin doesn't yield very high rewards without something like a CH j.D or j.214S, but it allows you to maintain control of the situation.

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If you do silly 214A/B moves your foe can always just jump and airgrab you on reaction anyways unless you hold 4 and do a pre-emptive jH which of course is also an issue if your foe does not go for the grab. You can always just yrc the 214A/B to gain the upper hand as well as throw a voltic dein to bait AAs (and then confirm it with an airdash into falling jS into gorrilions of damage)

 

All in all it depends on what your read is in this situation, some stuff beats some other stuff but loses to yet different stuff but if the risk is worth taking or not depends upon a myriad of factors such as positioning, matchups, meter/health/burst situations, etc. Ultimately, playing it safe/smart entails avoiding this risky approach in most situations.

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I see a lot of Sins online do a hop into j.6H meaty to start pressure after a knockdown. Why does this work? I have yet to get it to happen correctly.

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j6H whiffs crouchers so if your foe is crouching it can whiff but if that's the case you wanna notice it and react by doing something else like a jS to hit them since if they're crouching they can't block an overhead.

 

If you're whiffing it against a standing foe, just time it differently. Different chars have different get-up-timing so you have to adjust to who you're doing it against if you want it to meaty.

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I've been looking for Sin 1.1 changes but havent been able to find them, anybody can help me with that?

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@Koori

 

There were a bunch of changes from loketests, but no idea so far if all of them were implemented, the ones I can see so far are:-

6P can be jump cancelled, unsure if it retained added recovery from loketests.

623S doesn't require a crit for longer untech time, more consistent combos and routes.

 

j.D counter hit has a different bounce, easier to hit confirm.

Food meter glows a different colour when closer to being empty.

 

5H second hit floats higher(236K seems to do this too? not sure)

 

 

There were others in the loketests like j.S having more active frames, 236K being +3(frames shifted around) and having a bigger hitbox and hurtbox or something. A lot of damage rebalances on his H normals were apparently made too. I might have missed a few, but these are kind of hard to tell from videos. We may only know about them if someone from Japan lists the changes, and I don't know if anyone has.

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At the end of a beak driver loop if you do 214K j.6H, what influences whether you get the restand or if they just tech in the air?

I want the former outcome for some sweet mixups: j.D, 2D, crossup 214S.

 

EDIT: Solved. You want the j.6H to hit as late as possible.

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Well you've got the answer already, but I suppose it's a matter of whether they're still sliding down the wall or not. Making it hit late gets them when they're already at the bottom.

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