Venom vs Axl

[DaiAndOh]

Discuss the matchup here!

[DaiAndOh]

Matchup is considered to be in Venom's favor.

Venom has effective poking and space control to match Axl's. Venom can also cover his approaches well, and Axl's chains do get hit by balls. For Axl's range, he can't do much at full screen either, while Venom can.

Note that Rensengeki (green chain move) counts as 3 projectile hits. Axl can interrupt careless approaches and predictable ball based pressure with this.
 

GG Veterans should note two things:

Axl's DP is legit now and really good actually. So be prepared to treat him like a DP character.

 

Axl's new stance. It's not a huge threat for Venom though. Like his pokes, the chains can be hit. Learn to instant block it and interrupt it with 2P, maybe 2S, and ball hits/Stinger too.

[Kirnupiima]

The stance can be broken easily with Stinger Aim YRC. That of course costs meter but is really safe. Good findings you have there.

[Redefinition]

Axl's DP is less of an annoyance than I originally thought. I used to get way, way more annoyed by his 623P counter than I do by his current DP. Do note that it eats our pool balls. If you time it properly, though, you can safely land in front of him after K ball oki. If he blocks, he blocks the pool ball. If he DPs, it just eats the ball and you're free to punish. Other than the new DP in exchange for the counter, the matchup has changed in the fact that Axl's pressure game is not very good now. Whereas before, he could jack the guard bar just as hard as Venom could with Rensen FRC, the loss of being able to only spend 25% meter on that hurts him way, WAY more than it hurts us.

 

Otherwise, the neutral game remains largely the same. Don't ever ever jump vs. Axl without ball coverage, try to keep balls in play as much as possible, etc. A note: WATCH OUT FOR THAT STANCE THING WHEN YOU'RE SUMMONING BALLS. It wasn't ever a problem when I was fighting, but it most definitely could be if you're careless with the way you summon.

 

I would say this matchup might even be MORE in favor of us than it has been in the past. Need more play time to definitively tell.

 

EDIT: Figured I'd add some specific things about his pressure.

 

If you can learn to instant block his strings, the only things you really need to watch out for are Rashousen and 6H. If he does Rashou, he'll LIKELY RC it and try to anti-air you, so be sure you are FDing once you jump. With 6H, I wasn't able to do this tonight because I'm a scrub (  ) but in previous iterations of GG, you could usually jump IB his 6H, and throw afterwards. You may have to IB the normal before 6H depending on what it is, but I have a feeling that this still works, and is a GREAT tool for escaping his pressure, since 6H is one of his go-to moves he likes to end block strings with (it pushes him towards the opponent and is +1 against ground normal block).

[DaiAndOh]

Blitz hurts Axl 6HS as well. And yeah this is always a strong matchup for Venom, and with Axl at his weakest (and Venom doing pretty good for himself), it's all the better.

[SnowMonkeyFunky]

One thing I've been getting a lot of mileage out of is counter hitting Axl's 6H with 6P. One of my sparring partners that mains Axl likes to reset his pressure when he gets pushed out with 2H > 6H, and that is pretty easy to react to online. I can imagine that offline 6H can be reacted to in other, less obvious situations.

 

I've been meaning to test this, but can our 6P counter a midrange jS (IAD in from a far midscreenish distance)? I know the chains have hurtboxes, but I'm not sure how far out they are or for how long.

[GodPress]

QVing 4[6]S is viable if you're looking to get some charged balls out in the long range though it is vulnerable to 2H

 

And yes it can CH j.S. 

[Redefinition]

One thing I've been getting a lot of mileage out of is counter hitting Axl's 6H with 6P. One of my sparring partners that mains Axl likes to reset his pressure when he gets pushed out with 2H > 6H, and that is pretty easy to react to online. I can imagine that offline 6H can be reacted to in other, less obvious situations.

 

I've been meaning to test this, but can our 6P counter a midrange jS (IAD in from a far midscreenish distance)? I know the chains have hurtboxes, but I'm not sure how far out they are or for how long.

 

Do you have to IB the 2H first in order to 6P the 6H? I feel like I had tried something like this when I fought my local Axl, but maybe I was just messing something up. I wonder if you can 6P the 6H if he does 5H > 6H...

[SnowMonkeyFunky]

Not necessarily. It just doesn't work at all ranges. The closer the 2H is blocked, the easier the 6H is to react to and 6P. If done at a longer range 6P may trade or flat out lose because the 6H will hit later and lower.

[Kumlekar]

Not necessarily. It just doesn't work at all ranges. The closer the 2H is blocked, the easier the 6H is to react to and 6P. If done at a longer range 6P may trade or flat out lose because the 6H will hit later and lower.

Basically this. ^^

 

Its about a 5 frame window if you're at the right spacing.

[Pomparomp]

How many fucking iframes does his dp have? If other characters dp, I at the very least least trade with a ball hit, but when Axl's do it the ball just flies right through them.

[Redefinition]

How many fucking iframes does his dp have? If other characters dp, I at the very least least trade with a ball hit, but when Axl's do it the ball just flies right through them.

k ball > 669 > j.k (ball hit) is a safe bait to wake up dp. I can't remember off the top of my head if it only has one hit and should soak the ball, or if you just land before it can go off, but Axl's dp is not too scary for venom since the ball can take the hit.

[TittyFOFO]

It's not like that. You recover fast enough from the j.k to be able to block the DP, but you still have to bait it like any other DP.

[Redefinition]

Yeah I definitely didn't mean that you can just do that for free, my bad. But it's safe if you land, and then block. If he does dp, block and punish and if he doesn't, pressure because the ball should keep him in enough block stun for that.

[Venussail91]

I'm having some issues knowing when to attack or move once he gets going- tips?

[Redefinition]

If he's on top of you/pressuring, watch for 6H. you could jump IB into throw in AC/+R but I'm not sure if that's still the case because I don't get a lot of Axl practice anymore and don't own the game to test. 6H is his main pressure reset tool in the corner and his other stuff is fairly IB-able or FD-able. Midscreen, backdash until you're fullscreen and set balls. Or, if you have meter, stinger YRC (either one) into ball setting is a fantastic way to get back on your feet. Historically this matchup is really really heavily in favor of Venom because your balls can hit all of his ranged normals. the only thing you have to look out for is rensen (his [4]6S). Basically you beat him in the corner by baiting DP and pressuring him pretty hard, he KIND of goes even with you midscreen because of rensen range, and full screen (outside of rensen range) you beat him because you can set balls for free and he has to come to you.

[Reki]

You can insert 6P 6H in between axl's 2H 6H even without IBing. I don't know what changes happened in earlier GGs but I feel axl's 6H is pretty bad in xrd unless he uses it as meaty oki.

Something that hasn't been said in the thread yet that is very apparent when you play against axl; a lot of his horizontal moves are taxed horribly with damage reductions. Afaik his practical starters that do not dillute his damage by 80-90% are 5H, 6H, 2D, and 'teleport backstab'. Now on the other hand, if you jump on axl and he catches you with 6P, 2S or 5S, you'll be surprised how much non-prorated damage he'll do with just a simple 4-5 hit jump cancel combo ending with axl bomber. Jump on him without ball support and faultless defense if you wanna get blown up.

[SnowMonkeyFunky]

If the Axl you're fighting likes to get cheeky with the air resets to 6K (IE: Rensen~9 then let you air tech 6K/throw dash 5P 6K allow air tech another 6K to reset, etc), as well as if they fuck up their timing on 6K 2S (hooray for Venom's finnicky hurtbox!) you can forward tech and punish them free. Forward air tech also does wonders if they try to otg with 3P to prevent other gimmicky resets.