[Xrd] Sol Badguy vs. Leo Whitefang

[VR-Raiden]

• Use this thread to discuss the Leo Whitefang matchup.
• If the matchup is giving you trouble, check to see if this post already contains info which will help you. If not, be as specific as possible when asking for help and others will be glad to give advice.
• Please focus more heavily on discussing how to play the matchup properly than who is at advantage/disadvantage.
• This post will be updated to collect useful info over time.

Round Start:

• ...

Neutral:

• ...

Offense:

• Wake-up timing: 56f face-up, 54f face-down.
• Safejump Option-Selects: OS 5K, c.S, and 6P hit backdash, but none are safe to HS DP or reversal Overdrive.
• All deep j.S/j.D > (JC) fuzzy guards fail.

Defense:

• Overheads:

Punishes:

• Dust:
• Dead Angle Attack:
• Leidenschaft Dirigent (632146HS): CH 2D interrupt before last hit, c.S upon landing.

Combo Notes:

• ...

[VR-Raiden]

Seems like you can bully him at f.S range.

His mobility is terrible so GF has more use in neutral, just be wary of the projectiles going through it.

The big one can be GV under, or CH BB over it if close enough. He can YRC though. If he does it with YRC and chases after, jump and IB it for some meter or try to avoid it.

After the air special to Brynhildr stance, he's +1 according to wiki. I've found 5K to trade or beat any buttons he presses after that except D, the counter, or combo Overdrive. so you can throw that in there. He might be able to whiff punish it if he just backs up, I'd have to check.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

2D also kinda wrecks him. He can 5K over it (probably), but it beats a lot of his stuff, even his 2P. I don't find him very threatening. Be ready to VV when he tries for something slow and goofy.

[greatfernman]

Its +2 according to 4gamer frame data, the wiki data is based on kedakos data which was slightly off (if we are to trust 4gamer over him) so 5k should technically trade with stance k after restand.

I'm not sure whether stance p upper body invul would let it beat 5k but maybe.

[VR-Raiden]

Oh that would explain why I never got better than a trade with his K. iirc 5K beat his P but I haven't looked in a bit.

[OmegaNITRO]

So as far as I can tell, the main problem that you need to look out for in this matchup is Zweit into Brynhildr shenanigans right on top of you. Leo can set this up on hit, block, or whiff, and from what I've seen the go-to safe setup for this is whiffing it after he knocks you down. From there it's a high/low/counter guessing game, and you take a ton of damage if you guess wrong, back into the same setup.

Since he can't grab in Brynhildr, I like to block low as the default and react to his slower overheads with 2D. But make sure it's on reaction, cause Brynhildr S is 6 frame startup with a stupid good hitbox, and can really ruin your day on CH. And considering the counter is active on frame 1, and Brynhildr K is unthrowable, I wouldn't recommend going on the offensive if he's in your face.

If he's running his rekkas on block you can grab him out of Zweit fairly easily, and Dritt if he staggers it. 

[VR-Raiden]

Apparently for his rekkas, if you IB the 2nd one and 5K it's a guaranteed punish. It will punish recovery and interrupt 3rd rekka. HSVV should work too but I didn't check myself yet.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Now that he's out in arcades, it's interesting to see how players are learning to set up his mixups in ways that are harder to defend against. Seems like finding a way to deal with stance dash through mixups after blocking HS projectile will become a priority. It's a good thing he really doesn't do too much damage without certain setups.

[Destin]

Apparently for his rekkas, if you IB the 2nd one and 5K it's a guaranteed punish. It will punish recovery and interrupt 3rd rekka. HSVV should work too but I didn't check myself yet.

Are you sure you can interrupt rekka 3? Remember he can delay timing on any rekka to set up frame traps. VV shouldn't work versus rekka 2 -> D I imagine.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Rekka 2 has much more recovery associated with it than his standalone 236HS, otherwise he could just start his BT game for free off of rekkas anytime they were blocked.

[VR-Raiden]

Yeah I tried again and as far as I can tell if you IB 236S->236HS it's a free 5K or HSVV regardless of what he does. If he does the final rekka as fast as possible, the gap to interrupt with 5K is really tight though. I wasn't able to get back stance D out in time either. Main issue seems to be knowing what side he'll be on after rekka 2, because that determines IB direction and VV input if you wanted to do that over 5K.

[Destin]

Rekka 2 is -3 iirc, but if you can interrupt with 5k, that's a really solid option, nice find

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

-6 on IB, so 5K is free. HSVV also free, but tight timing, and given that VV can be countered by bt D if you miss the timing, better off to just 5K.

[Destin]

yeah i figured if he went with immediate rekka 3 that would stop the 5k, but apparently not on ib? Neat, although I don't think it should be in the game from a design standpoint.

[VR-Raiden]

I thought of trying WT just now and that actually works too. Interrupts immediate rekka 3 and punishes rekka 2 on IB. Now that would lose to his throw invul back turned moves if he went through, you mistimed it, and he went for those. Another option though.

 

I originally looked at this when I saw Eiji mention it on twitter a while back.

[VR-Raiden]

At round start, Leo's can forward jump j.K to whiff punish f.S starter. If you anticipate this, you can CH 2HS him for that. Note if you want to do CH 2HS > BB from this high hit you need to JCC in order to delay cancel to BB. You can easily convert if you were a bit slow and it trades.

 

 

So by looking too hard for the rekka 2 punish (discussed in here already), I have been letting them get away with restarting pressure off rekka 1. I finally looked at shutting that down. If you IB rekka 1 (not hard to do if you buffer it in when you think it might be coming), you can simply do 4 or 6 throw OS stuff to either punish him or begin pressure. 

 

IB rekka 1 > 6P+HS is an example. He's -4 after IB rekka 1. Note he can't delay his cancel to rekka 2.

If he does rekka 1 and attempts to pressure, his fastest normal (2P, 5f) will trade with 6P which is obviously favorable.

If he does rekka 1 > rekka 2, with perfect timing you throw rekka 2 whether he was too far for it to cross behind or not. If you're a frame or so off you'll FD rekka 2 if it was close enough to cross behind.

 

6K+HS punishes IB rekka 1 if he did it very deep with the same results otherwise.

 

4 throw OS has the benefit of throwing him the other way if he does rekka 2, but if he doesn't do rekka 2 (or it's too far to cross behind) you simply FD.

 

 

Oh and proximity OS VV (6321P+HS) is good against back turned stuff. His counter doesn't trigger proximity guard. However this won't matter in Revelator since I hear it's gone (yay).

[Nincopyab]

Hello,I have a hard time to maintain my pressure or WT Leo after a YRC GF > j.S  setup, he either smash 2p, we clash 2p vs 2p before he counter me with Eisen Sturm,  or he counter me in my attempt to close in after 2s, or FD his way to neutral. Seems like I cant get out of neutral, and when I do, I end up doing low damage gatling combos. The only thing that is working to some degree is delayed 6p, 5hs or 2hs. Please give some advice. 

[VR-Raiden]

If he's able to mash 2P out after j.S you're probably doing it too high up. It could also be you waiting too long or doing something too slow to pressure after landing.

To keep him from approaching you can put GF out, poke him at range with f.S or 2D (or any other poke depending on the situation), and look for him to jump to anti-air him. Having YRC available if he jumps over GF or a poke helps.